Repentence: What Does It Really Mean?

joey_downunder

big sister
Apr 25, 2009
3,064
152
Land Down Under
✟12,875.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Seems all over the place, to be honest, JR. Some say you HAVE TO, while other say you don't. So I don't know.
Speaking in tongues is an area where many Christians will debate over.
If you want a good link giving for/against speaking in tongues here is a library on the topic! Speaking in Tongues Overall it is against it for reasons clearly explained.

Personally I don't think speaking in tongues is especially common these days. By that I mean real foreign languages spoken around the world in the 21st century, not heavenly tongues that Charismatics believe they are communicating with God while doing so. I try to keep a fairly open mind about the topic.

What I object to the most where it comes to teachings about speaking in tongues is when it is claimed that people are proved to be saved IF they speak in tongues. That contradicts scripture. The apostles were always very careful not to leave anything important doctrinally unsaid.

Romans 10:9because, if you confess with your mouth* that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

*Not confesses in different tongues not known by that individual beforehand. That sounds like a conscious and fully aware thinking decision made by someone of their own free will. For that to happen a person would having to be thinking and speaking those words in a language already known to them.
 
Upvote 0

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟15,382.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Appreciate the detailed reply, oi. Thanks very much. :)

When a spirit possesses a body, it takes total control of the body including the thoughts. A fit body is controlled by the mind. A smoker cannot smoke a cigarette unless the mind allows it to. A murderer cannot kill unless his mind allows it to. Therefore when we are living in the Holy Spirit our minds are directed by Him. When we are under the influence of a demon we can perform some attrocious demonic actions, let me not get specific. But Jesus did warn that this could happen, here:

Ah...non-capitalized "s." Sorry, mis-read. I thought you were referring to the Spirit.

So really it becomes a responsibility of yours to be sure that your mind is fit to worship God and not overcome by such demonic spirits that would bomb abortion clinics or assault homosexuals, in other words to pursue the light instead of the darkness.

Gotcha, thanks! :)

do you have a goal?

Yes, I do. It's to have a close and personal relationship with God, through the power of the Holy Spirit. How would you suggest I go about doing that?
 
Upvote 0

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟15,382.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
That is NOT what we have. Yes, I have heard that claim too, but it is false. Make a point of looking for exceptions on your next read through of the NT beginning with Acts and you'll find the exceptions. (There are also people on CF that can help you locate it quicker)

Okay, so is there somewhat of an agreement in the community as to how one would know when they've received the Holy Spirit? Can someone just say, "I have it", and everyone has to accept that statement as being true because , "we simply don't know?" I mean have you heard of any instances in the bible where someone received the Holy Spirit and no miraculous sign (i.e.: speaking in tongues, prophesying, etc) was given as a result?
 
Upvote 0

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟15,382.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Romans 10:9because, if you confess with your mouth* that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Wow, that's amazing. First things first: FAITH. :)

*Not confesses in different tongues not known by that individual beforehand. That sounds like a conscious and fully aware thinking decision made by someone of their own free will. For that to happen a person would having to be thinking and speaking those words in a language already known to them.

Well that verse doesn't mention speaking in tongues, but surely it doesn't invalidate whether or not one does speak in tongues if they were genuinely indwelled with the Holy Spirit, wouldn't you say?
 
Upvote 0

joey_downunder

big sister
Apr 25, 2009
3,064
152
Land Down Under
✟12,875.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Well that verse doesn't mention speaking in tongues, but surely it doesn't invalidate whether or not one does speak in tongues if they were genuinely indwelled with the Holy Spirit, wouldn't you say?
I agree with you there. A person may or may not be speaking in tongues AND those tongues may be as a result of the Holy Spirit.

In 1 Corinthians 14 the apostle Paul goes into great detail about conduct and order that should go along with speaking in tongues in Church. In several charismatic churches I went to in the past the
teaching encouraging order and control when speaking in tongues wasn't followed though.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟15,382.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
In 1 Corinthians 14 the apostle Paul goes into great detail about conduct and order that should go along with speaking in tongues in Church. In several charismatic churches I went to in the past theteaching encouraging order and control when speaking in tongues wasn't followed though.

I sometimes wonder if all these details even matter.

The Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who could care less about details. lol But in order to achieve that child-like faith as an adult, we must be born again of the Holy Spirit. So that's the only detail I care about at this point in my life.
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,545
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Okay, so is there somewhat of an agreement in the community as to how one would know when they've received the Holy Spirit?

No there is not. Doesn't that seem strange? what does this non-consensus "say," by it's mere existence?

The gift of the Holy Spirit is also called "the Promise of the Father." Promised by an Eternal, unchanging and Perfect Being, who is entirely unique. Whatever thoughts we may have on the subject, they need to be tempered per this realization, IMHO. Personally, what I observe in myself and others, is until we truly come to a point of Faith there is confusion about this, or it is ignored.

Jesus never mentions anything pertinent to telling if someone else might have the Holy Spirit or not, but He certainly does address people inquiring about other's Eternal future, and every time He does so VERY sternly, that it is none of their business! And then He tells the individual doing the asking to re-focus upon their own relationship with Himself. ;) So a better question seems to be, how can you yourself have any idea of how the Lord currently relates to YOU?

And fortunately this is a topic that Scripture is consistently clear on. I have found that seeing what this is, in personal fashion, and having both your heart and mind open to it, is how "Faith comes." And in such an environment, truly the Promise of the Father is His delight to accomplish, and everyone who experiences that is unique. IMHO, this is how the Church is built!

I mean have you heard of any instances in the bible where someone received the Holy Spirit and no miraculous sign (i.e.: speaking in tongues, prophesying, etc) was given as a result?

Yes. :) You should find them. I'll also point out that the more conservative and Orthodox denoms of our Faith teach and practice that the gift of the Holy Spirit is either synonymous or concurrent with water Baptism. I think this teaching places trust in the Lord, and the burden of developing Faith and walking in it on the believer. I'm not really sure how I feel about this particular teaching, but looking back on my own experience, being Baptized in water and recognizing the Holy Spirit enter and change my life certainly all happened within a short time period.

I highly recommend it :)

I think it is something not to be taken lightly, but approached with a keen sense of awe and wonder. Seeking to understand what it's all about and why is natural for me, but this needs to occur in the appropriate environment of reverence. It is after all, God Himself taking up residence in our own physical bodies that we are talking about here
 
Upvote 0

razeontherock

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
26,545
1,480
WI
✟35,597.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
in order to achieve that child-like faith as an adult, we must be born again of the Holy Spirit.

Is that the order? Or does it work the other way around? ;)

In any event the whole "new birth" is perhaps the greatest miracle of all time, and making sure that foundation is intact is the greatest possible focus for one's life, IMHO.
 
Upvote 0

oi_antz

Opposed to Untruth.
Apr 26, 2010
5,696
277
New Zealand
✟7,997.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Yes, I do. It's to have a close and personal relationship with God, through the power of the Holy Spirit. How would you suggest I go about doing that?
Obedience is very important, read what Jesus said here:

John 14:21
21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.”

So you need to investigate within yourself, whether there is something that Jesus expects from you that you are refusing to do. Off the top of my head I can suggest that you look at the ten commandments, think about what lust means in context of coveting and adultery, read the whole new testament to get the gist of what being Christian means, and as you do all this be attentive to what your conscience is telling you. When you are sure that you want to be Jesus Christ's disciple, be baptized by one of Jesus' disciples and dedicate your life to doing what He wants you to do.

John 14:21 is no light promise, the idea that a meager human being can have a relationship with the creator of the world is mind blowing. Make sure you give Him that much respect, be duly humble when you approach Him, He will not let you down if you truly do trust Him.
 
Upvote 0

joey_downunder

big sister
Apr 25, 2009
3,064
152
Land Down Under
✟12,875.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I sometimes wonder if all these details even matter.

The Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who could care less about details. lol But in order to achieve that child-like faith as an adult, we must be born again of the Holy Spirit. So that's the only detail I care about at this point in my life.
Yes you've got the right perspective there. :) Tongues is an extremely minor topic compared to what is actually true faith in Christ (and resulting salvation from faith in Christ).
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ephraimanesti

Senior Veteran
Nov 22, 2005
5,702
390
81
Seattle, WA
✟23,171.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Yes, I do. It's to have a close and personal relationship with God, through the power of the Holy Spirit. How would you suggest I go about doing that?
MY BROTHER,

Our Lord states, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. FOR EVERYONE WHO ASKS RECEIVES; HE WHO SEEKS FINDS; AND TO HIM WHO KNOCKS, THE DOOR WILL BE OPENED.
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, HOW MUCH MORE WILL YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THOSE WHO ASK HIM?" (Luke 11:9-13)

So, as most things spiritual tend to do, in the end it all comes down to Faith. Do you believe God's promises? Do you trust Him to provide that which you are asking based on those Promises? One of the biggest struggles for a new child of God is trusting God's promises IN SPITE of their feelings. You mention that the Scriptures don't mention anyone being gifted with the Spirit without this being accompanied by miraculous signs and wonders. You perhaps need to take into account that the purpose of miracles is not to provide rules and precedent but to establish Christ Jesus' legitimacy and aid in the founding of His Kingdom in a very hostile environment. Now that the Kingdom has been established and matured (well, mostly) over 2000 or so years, another of our Lord's pronouncements pertains to our present situation, "Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed;BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN AND YET HAVE BELIEVED." (John 20:29)

TRUST God.

TRUST His Promises.

ACT accordingly.


LOVE TO YOU IN CHRIST,
ephraim
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,163
1,805
✟794,962.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
How do you do that, tho'? I thought I had clear-cut instructions on how to receive faith (as mentioned earlier), until I realized the whole pharisee thing. I've prayed for faith and I still don't know who, what, when, where, why.
Your Faith can grow, but right now all you have to do is direct what ‘faith” you do have toward God. You have enough faith to get you started, but are your reason to trust God great enough to allow you to humbly accept God’s help? Can you as the prodigal son did: “come to your senses” (look rationally at where you have come and where you are going)? God has done a wonderful job of presenting Himself through Christ which should be what you see in true Christians.



Can you, as best you can, describe how you know? Because I hear that word a lot, and think it's not only a strong word, but that it also seems to vary in definition from person to person.

If you could provide scripture to corroborate what leads you to know, without a doubt, that the Holy Spirit is within you, that would be great and very, very interesting, as well.
Eph. 1: 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Like I said you cannot know from my indwelling Holy Spirit, but He is my guarantee. The way I know is this: there were sins I did and could not of my own power keep from doing. When I allow the indwelling Holy Spirit to be involved I can actual keep from doing these sins and do great stuff and have wonderful understanding/wisdom. Now that may not seem “amazing” to you, but I know what I could and could not do, so this is a miracle to me. I can be much more than I could ever be on my own power (alone) and the more I allow the Spirit to be involved the more He does through me.
 
Upvote 0

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟15,382.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
No there is not. Doesn't that seem strange?

Yea', it does.

Is that the order? Or does it work the other way around?

I've been under the impression (Ephesians 2:8-9) that such a thing is not of our own doing. Are you saying that we can achieve faith on our own, and as a result, will then leave ourselves open to accepting the Holy Spirit?

Yes. You should find them.

Well I'm pretty interested in knowing, so who can I ask? I wouldn't know where to begin looking. And I'm not familiar with any part the board besides this forum. Can you point me in the right direction, please?

but this needs to occur in the appropriate environment of reverence.

Right, I definitely agree.
 
Upvote 0

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟15,382.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
So you need to investigate within yourself, whether there is something that Jesus expects from you that you are refusing to do. Off the top of my head I can suggest that you look at the ten commandments, think about what lust means in context of coveting and adultery, read the whole new testament to get the gist of what being Christian means, and as you do all this be attentive to what your conscience is telling you. When you are sure that you want to be Jesus Christ's disciple, be baptized by one of Jesus' disciples and dedicate your life to doing what He wants you to do.

John 14:21 is no light promise, the idea that a meager human being can have a relationship with the creator of the world is mind blowing. Make sure you give Him that much respect, be duly humble when you approach Him, He will not let you down if you truly do trust Him.

Thanks, oi.
 
Upvote 0

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟15,382.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
MY BROTHER,

Our Lord states, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. FOR EVERYONE WHO ASKS RECEIVES; HE WHO SEEKS FINDS; AND TO HIM WHO KNOCKS, THE DOOR WILL BE OPENED.
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, HOW MUCH MORE WILL YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THOSE WHO ASK HIM?" (Luke 11:9-13)

So, as most things spiritual tend to do, in the end it all comes down to Faith. Do you believe God's promises? Do you trust Him to provide that which you are asking based on those Promises? One of the biggest struggles for a new child of God is trusting God's promises IN SPITE of their feelings. You mention that the Scriptures don't mention anyone being gifted with the Spirit without this being accompanied by miraculous signs and wonders. You perhaps need to take into account that the purpose of miracles is not to provide rules and precedent but to establish Christ Jesus' legitimacy and aid in the founding of His Kingdom in a very hostile environment. Now that the Kingdom has been established and matured (well, mostly) over 2000 or so years, another of our Lord's pronouncements pertains to our present situation, "Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed;BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN AND YET HAVE BELIEVED." (John 20:29)

TRUST God.

TRUST His Promises.

ACT accordingly.

LOVE TO YOU IN CHRIST,
ephraim

Thanks, Ephraim.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

CantThinkofaUserName

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2007
140
4
✟15,382.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
You have enough faith to get you started, but are your reason to trust God great enough to allow you to humbly accept God’s help?

Honestly, I don't know.

Like I said you cannot know from my indwelling Holy Spirit, but He is my guarantee. The way I know is this: there were sins I did and could not of my own power keep from doing. When I allow the indwelling Holy Spirit to be involved I can actual keep from doing these sins and do great stuff and have wonderful understanding/wisdom. Now that may not seem “amazing” to you, but I know what I could and could not do, so this is a miracle to me. I can be much more than I could ever be on my own power (alone) and the more I allow the Spirit to be involved the more He does through me.

Thanks for sharing, bling. I appreciate it. :)
 
Upvote 0

Amaranthine

Magenta
Oct 1, 2011
29
0
✟15,139.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
1 Corinthians 12:7-11

Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Please excuse my interjection of Scripture here, as it seemed the thread has strayed from the original topic onto speaking in tongues and whether or not it is a requisite for being born again of the Spirit of God. Special thanks to oi antz for your replies, and razeontherock for yours as well, especially pointing to Matthew 5:24 (which immediately came to my mind regarding the OP) :~)
 
Upvote 0

Milton Goh

Active Member
Jul 27, 2015
146
4
31
✟22,296.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hawkins

Member
Supporter
Apr 27, 2005
2,559
394
Canada
✟235,114.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
From what I understand, it means to "FEEL sorry" and not to actually SAY (speak, utter, etc) the WORD, "sorry." It also means to "turn away" from your sins.

So I have two questions:

1.) Is there anything else to the word repent that I haven't covered?

Repentance means rather a commitment not to commit it again such that forgiveness from the other side becomes possible. If you hurt someone and promise will hurt him again tomorrow, it's no point for him to forgive you. Only when you promise not to harm him again, then it's possible to look for his forgiveness. Repentance is thus the prerequisite for forgiveness.

2.) Is there any place in the bible that says that you need to literally SAY, "sorry?" Not talking about the technical definition above where it states to "feel sorry", but rather any verse that states that you need to say it.

Thanks!

Other than the ones you might have harmed, a sin is a transgression of God Himself. Whenever you committed a sin, you offended God Himself directly. So the most important part of repentance is that you look for the forgiveness from God Himself. Only God has the power of forgiveness from a more legal/lawful point of view.
 
Upvote 0