What happened to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

BukiRob · Jul 30, 2015

Josephus said:
The two trees are the same. They both are the Torah. But the fruit is vastly different. One tree has fruit that has seed in it, the other tree has fruit that has no seed in it. Adam and Chava (and us their children) are only permitted to eat the fruit of trees that has seed in it.

Why?

Because seed (zara) relates to the Messiah who is known as the seed (zarah) of the woman.

Therefore, studying Torah for knowledge sake alone, that is, without the purpose of seeing Messiah, is what the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is. After all, that is what the Torah is, without Messiah - it's simply knowledge of good and evil. But the study of Torah for more than just the knowledge of good and evil, but rather with the purpose to see Messiah, is life. To desire wisdom for wisdom sake, is to consume from the Torah without ultimately desiring or even looking for Messiah, which is what Chava fell for, believing the lie that she could become like G-d knowing good and evil, not needing Messiah.

The Tree of Life remained on after the Flood, and a branch from it is found in the narrative as early as Moses's staff which was Aaron's rod, which had the bronze serpent affixed to its top, which was planted into the ground during King David's departure from Jerusalem when he fled from his son Absalom, which grew into a tree on the Mt. of Olives, from which King Hezekiah ground the serpent into pieces, which most likely was the tree that Messiah himself was hung from facing the entrance to the Golden Gate right into the Holy Place where a witness could concurrently see the curtain torn during the earthquake that occurred during his death.

The tree is not found any longer in history after this except in the New Jerusalem.

In my study, I believe the fruit of the Tree of Life was an almond or almond-like fruit.
The fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was a pomegranate or pomegranate-like fruit - but one designed to not have any seed in it ever.

As I said above, I believe they are both the same tree that were planted by Messiah as two trees, but different fruit, to serve as a means to test Adam and therefore elevate him into the World to Come - the Sabbath rest that Genesis records only G-d entered into that week.

Very interesting... since G-d said that they could eat the fruit of any other tree except the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The sin was the desire to become as G-d.

What is the significance of the almond or almond like fruit vs the pomegranate-like fruit? and how did you come to this conclusion....

As I see it, the tree of life is the Torah=Yeshua

Josephus · Jul 30, 2015

BukiRob said:
Very interesting... since G-d said that they could eat the fruit of any other tree except the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The sin was the desire to become as G-d.

What is the significance of the almond or almond like fruit vs the pomegranate-like fruit? and how did you come to this conclusion....

As I see it, the tree of life is the Torah=Yeshua

Aaron's rod was a branch from the Tree of Life, which budded almond blossoms (not almonds, else it would have fruited).

The pomegranate represents the Torah and is full of seeds representing mitzvot. A seedless pomegranate would therefore represent the appearance of Torah but no mitzvot. A desire to be like G-d but no obedience.

visionary · Jul 30, 2015

In fact, an almond is the seed of the fruit of the almond tree. Drupe is a fruit that has an outer fleshy part surrounding a shell that contains a seed which the almond is.

Lulav · Jul 30, 2015

Josephus said:
Aaron's rod was a branch from the Tree of Life, which budded almond blossoms (not almonds, else it would have fruited).

The pomegranate represents the Torah and is full of seeds representing mitzvot. A seedless pomegranate would therefore represent the appearance of Torah but no mitzvot. A desire to be like G-d but no obedience.

Thought I'd remembered it differently.

8 Now it came to pass on the next day that Moses went into the tabernacle of witness, and behold, the rod of Aaron, of the house of Levi, had sprouted and put forth buds, had produced blossoms and yielded ripe almonds.

Lulav · Jul 30, 2015

pat34lee said:
Most likely the same thing that is happening today. GMO's and genetic manipulation by the angels. They may have created real sphinxes, griffons and other cross-species monsters. If not that, perhaps mutant bacteria and viruses were running rampant through nature because of the angels and man's sin.

Thank you Pat, I am well aware of that POV, I was asking Josephus why he thought that the earth corrupted itself including the animals. To say that to me means they did it to themselves, whereas I believe that it was done to them.

Josephus · Jul 30, 2015

Lulav said:
Thought I'd remembered it differently.

8 Now it came to pass on the next day that Moses went into the tabernacle of witness, and behold, the rod of Aaron, of the house of Levi, had sprouted and put forth buds, had produced blossoms and yielded ripe almonds.

You are correct!

Josephus · Jul 30, 2015

Lulav said:
Thank you Pat, I am well aware of that POV, I was asking Josephus why he thought that the earth corrupted itself including the animals. To say that to me means they did it to themselves, whereas I believe that it was done to them.

"All flesh" became corrupted. How - I am not sure on details, though letting the Torah explain itself, G-d said to Noah "from the hand of every beast I require it" - that is the blood of "your lives" later clarified as "man's blood". The animals prior to this were engaged in hamas (violence) in the same way man was...with the shedding of man's blood.

Lulav · Jul 30, 2015

Josephus said:
"All flesh" became corrupted. How - I am not sure on details, though letting the Torah explain itself, G-d said to Noah "from the hand of every beast I require it" - that is the blood of "your lives" later clarified as "man's blood". The animals prior to this were engaged in hamas (violence) in the same way man was...with the shedding of man's blood.

It is good to let Torah interpret Torah but we must keep it in chronological order, do you agree? What you stated, "from the hand of every beast I require it" was said to Noah after the flood, about the animals present at that time.

I understand flesh being corrupted in a different manner.

Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations

Generations, genealogy, genes, DNA

Corrupted DNA

It is still being done today.

Nothing new under the sun.

Josephus · Jul 30, 2015

Lulav said:
It is good to let Torah interpret Torah but we must keep it in chronological order, do you agree? What you stated, "from the hand of every beast I require it" was said to Noah after the flood, about the animals present at that time.

I understand flesh being corrupted in a different manner.

Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations

Generations, genealogy, genes, DNA

Corrupted DNA

It is still being done today.

Nothing new under the sun.

The Torah has always existed. It was not drafted over time. I know it seems weird and from one plane of thinking it appears anachronistic, but really, its not. The Torah is meant to taken as a whole. For example, Cain clearly did something wrong, even though it's not stated in that immediate story. Both something wrong with his offering, and wrong with what he did to his brother. How does one know what he did wrong? By knowing the rest of the Torah: specifically what is required for Bikkurim (First Fruits), and that murder is prohibited. The Torah usually waits to explain a mitzvah or prohibition at some later point in Torah to place it within its logical context so what can be drawn from it is everything that needs to be drawn from it in order to understand and apply it. In this same understanding then, the animals did wrong by engaging in hamas. This is described within the logic of Torah (not the chronological logic, but the legal logic when the entire Torah is meant to be taken as a whole) that the hamas, or violence done by all flesh, which includes animals, was the shedding of man's blood.

We learn that one must read the entire Torah to understand even just one portion of it, in the logical exploration of why the Torah starts with a Bet, the second letter of the alephbet, and not an Aleph, which is the first letter of the alephbet but not the first letter of the Torah. This teaches that Torah itself is a continuation... of itself - within (the bet representing a house, and the Torah then being considered as a house wherein the entirety is contained, as well as its continuation from one reading of it to the next). And we understand this when connecting the last letter of Torah with the first letter of Torah - which is done when the last portion of Torah is read in conjunction with the first portion of Torah on Simchat Torah. The lamed and and the bet are the last and first letters of Torah. Which spells Lev - or heart. Torah then is the heart of G-d. And this has always existed. Even as the events it describes plays out in real time. Truly HaShem has declared the End from .... "the beginning."

Perhaps I should start a post called What is the Torah? and show that the Torah is a package of divine origin (not bible codes per se) that has the appearance on first glance as a one dimensional story with boring place names, and geneologies, and such, teaching simple truths and laws about this or that, but to one who sees it in a different light, sees the very fabric and design of G-d's entire universe and plan for mankind within its multidimensional aspects - and therefore sees the very thing...now understood as a person that created us all - who Himself is a Person, this being Messiah, with all his personality, laws, goodness, righteousness, model for living, that he is to us, as our betrothed, and future echad as we too receive that very Torah on our hearts, our Lev and so become what we were truly meant to be: the bride who has the very heart of G-d, the Torah, who is Messiah, now in us and with us. Forever.

pinacled · Jul 30, 2015

Josephus said:
The Torah has always existed. It was not drafted over time. I know it seems weird and from one plane of thinking it appears anachronistic, but really, its not. The Torah is meant to taken as a whole. For example, Cain clearly did something wrong, even though it's not stated in that immediate story. Both something wrong with his offering, and wrong with what he did to his brother. How does one know what he did wrong? By knowing the rest of the Torah: specifically what is required for Bikkurim (First Fruits), and that murder is prohibited. The Torah usually waits to explain a mitzvah or prohibition at some later point in Torah to place it within its logical context so what can be drawn from it is everything that needs to be drawn from it in order to understand and apply it. In this same understanding then, the animals did wrong by engaging in hamas. This is described within the logic of Torah (not the chronological logic, but the legal logic when the entire Torah is meant to be taken as a whole) that the hamas, or violence done by all flesh, which includes animals, was the shedding of man's blood.

We learn that one must read the entire Torah to understand even just one portion of it, in the logical exploration of why the Torah starts with a Bet, the second letter of the alephbet, and not an Aleph, which is the first letter of the alephbet but not the first letter of the Torah. This teaches that Torah itself is a continuation... of itself - within (the bet representing a house, and the Torah then being considered as a house wherein the entirety is contained, as well as its continuation from one reading of it to the next). And we understand this when connecting the last letter of Torah with the first letter of Torah - which is done when the last portion of Torah is read in conjunction with the first portion of Torah on Simchat Torah. The lamed and and the bet are the last and first letters of Torah. Which spells Lev - or heart. Torah then is the heart of G-d. And this has always existed. Even as the events it describes plays out in real time. Truly HaShem has declared the End from .... "the beginning."

Perhaps I should start a post called What is the Torah? and show that the Torah is a package of divine origin (not bible codes per se) that has the appearance on first glance as a one dimensional story with boring place names, and geneologies, and such, teaching simple truths and laws about this or that, but to one who sees it in a different light, sees the very fabric and design of G-d's entire universe and plan for mankind within its multidimensional aspects - and therefore sees the very thing...now understood as a person that created us all - who Himself is a Person, this being Messiah, with all his personality, laws, goodness, righteousness, model for living, that he is to us, as our betrothed, and future echad as we too receive that very Torah on our hearts, our Lev and so become what we were truly meant to be: the bride who has the very heart of G-d, the Torah, who is Messiah, now in us and with us. Forever.

Just found this. 7 right?
וְשָׁמַרְתָּ, אֶת-מִצְו‍ֹת יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, לָלֶכֶת בִּדְרָכָיו, וּלְיִרְאָה אֹתוֹ. 6 And thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in His ways, and to fear Him.
ז כִּי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, מְבִיאֲךָ אֶל-אֶרֶץ טוֹבָה: אֶרֶץ, נַחֲלֵי מָיִם--עֲיָנֹת וּתְהֹמֹת, יֹצְאִים בַּבִּקְעָה וּבָהָר. 7 For the LORD thy God bringeth thee into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and depths, springing forth in valleys and hills;
ח אֶרֶץ חִטָּה וּשְׂעֹרָה, וְגֶפֶן וּתְאֵנָה וְרִמּוֹן; אֶרֶץ-זֵית שֶׁמֶן, וּדְבָשׁ. 8 a land of wheat and barley, and vines and fig-trees and pomegranates; a land of olive-trees and honey;
Olive Trees? 2

pinacled · Jul 30, 2015

pinacled said:
Just found this. 7 right?
וְשָׁמַרְתָּ, אֶת-מִצְו‍ֹת יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, לָלֶכֶת בִּדְרָכָיו, וּלְיִרְאָה אֹתוֹ. 6 And thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in His ways, and to fear Him.
ז כִּי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, מְבִיאֲךָ אֶל-אֶרֶץ טוֹבָה: אֶרֶץ, נַחֲלֵי מָיִם--עֲיָנֹת וּתְהֹמֹת, יֹצְאִים בַּבִּקְעָה וּבָהָר. 7 For the LORD thy God bringeth thee into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and depths, springing forth in valleys and hills;
ח אֶרֶץ חִטָּה וּשְׂעֹרָה, וְגֶפֶן וּתְאֵנָה וְרִמּוֹן; אֶרֶץ-זֵית שֶׁמֶן, וּדְבָשׁ. 8 a land of wheat and barley, and vines and fig-trees and pomegranates; a land of olive-trees and honey;

Glad you brought up the non anachronistic aspect. I am familiar with this understanding.

Lulav · Jul 31, 2015

Josephus said:
The Torah has always existed. It was not drafted over time. I know it seems weird and from one plane of thinking it appears anachronistic, but really, its not. The Torah is meant to taken as a whole. For example, Cain clearly did something wrong, even though it's not stated in that immediate story. Both something wrong with his offering, and wrong with what he did to his brother. How does one know what he did wrong? By knowing the rest of the Torah: specifically what is required for Bikkurim (First Fruits), and that murder is prohibited. The Torah usually waits to explain a mitzvah or prohibition at some later point in Torah to place it within its logical context so what can be drawn from it is everything that needs to be drawn from it in order to understand and apply it. In this same understanding then, the animals did wrong by engaging in hamas. This is described within the logic of Torah (not the chronological logic, but the legal logic when the entire Torah is meant to be taken as a whole) that the hamas, or violence done by all flesh, which includes animals, was the shedding of man's blood.

We learn that one must read the entire Torah to understand even just one portion of it, in the logical exploration of why the Torah starts with a Bet, the second letter of the alephbet, and not an Aleph, which is the first letter of the alephbet but not the first letter of the Torah. This teaches that Torah itself is a continuation... of itself - within (the bet representing a house, and the Torah then being considered as a house wherein the entirety is contained, as well as its continuation from one reading of it to the next). And we understand this when connecting the last letter of Torah with the first letter of Torah - which is done when the last portion of Torah is read in conjunction with the first portion of Torah on Simchat Torah. The lamed and and the bet are the last and first letters of Torah. Which spells Lev - or heart. Torah then is the heart of G-d. And this has always existed. Even as the events it describes plays out in real time. Truly HaShem has declared the End from .... "the beginning."

Perhaps I should start a post called What is the Torah? and show that the Torah is a package of divine origin (not bible codes per se) that has the appearance on first glance as a one dimensional story with boring place names, and geneologies, and such, teaching simple truths and laws about this or that, but to one who sees it in a different light, sees the very fabric and design of G-d's entire universe and plan for mankind within its multidimensional aspects - and therefore sees the very thing...now understood as a person that created us all - who Himself is a Person, this being Messiah, with all his personality, laws, goodness, righteousness, model for living, that he is to us, as our betrothed, and future echad as we too receive that very Torah on our hearts, our Lev and so become what we were truly meant to be: the bride who has the very heart of G-d, the Torah, who is Messiah, now in us and with us. Forever.

Thank you for that explanation of Torah, it is understood in the weekly readings as well, also I remember Simchat Torah when the Rabbizin read from the end and my portion was the beginning, a cycle complete.

However you did not show where you believe it is revealed about animals all becoming violent and shedding mans blood, in fact I don't see that anywhere in Torah that I can think of at all.

I prefer to go with the gene theory, but then again it is more of a remez level than P'sha t.

pinacled · Jul 31, 2015

pinacled said:
Just found this. 7 right?
וְשָׁמַרְתָּ, אֶת-מִצְו‍ֹת יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, לָלֶכֶת בִּדְרָכָיו, וּלְיִרְאָה אֹתוֹ. 6 And thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in His ways, and to fear Him.
ז כִּי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, מְבִיאֲךָ אֶל-אֶרֶץ טוֹבָה: אֶרֶץ, נַחֲלֵי מָיִם--עֲיָנֹת וּתְהֹמֹת, יֹצְאִים בַּבִּקְעָה וּבָהָר. 7 For the LORD thy God bringeth thee into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and depths, springing forth in valleys and hills;
ח אֶרֶץ חִטָּה וּשְׂעֹרָה, וְגֶפֶן וּתְאֵנָה וְרִמּוֹן; אֶרֶץ-זֵית שֶׁמֶן, וּדְבָשׁ. 8 a land of wheat and barley, and vines and fig-trees and pomegranates; a land of olive-trees and honey;
Olive Trees? 2

http://www.jewishgiftplace.com/Symbolism-Of-Pomegranate.html

BukiRob · Jul 31, 2015

Lulav said:
Thank you Pat, I am well aware of that POV, I was asking Josephus why he thought that the earth corrupted itself including the animals. To say that to me means they did it to themselves, whereas I believe that it was done to them.

I believe that what makes "as the days of Noah" different than any other time in mankind's history is what has happened in the last 25 years.... the rediscovering of DNA and how to manipulate it

Lulav · Jul 31, 2015

BukiRob said:
I believe that what makes "as the days of Noah" different than any other time in mankind's history is what has happened in the last 25 years.... the rediscovering of DNA and how to manipulate it

Good point, but it's been a bit longer than that, over 50 years actually.

Man is just now doing what those angels did long ago, or maybe it is still the angels in the disguise of humans so as not to tip anyone off? This could be the culmination of those experiments from the antediluvian times where the product has become more 'refined'.

Chicken Little · Aug 3, 2015

Lulav said:
Which snake is poisonous? Which one is harmless?

The L-RD speaking of the harlot Israel

21"Yet I planted you a choice vine, A completely faithful seed. How then have you turned yourself before Me Into the degenerate shoots of a foreign vine?

The Greek word translated 'true' means, genuine, True inside and out.

maybe you didn't really want to know this but I just have too..
RED to BLACK is a friend to JACK ...( these kill the babies of other snakes including copper heads and other poisonous ones) so don't kill them or other kinds of "king snakes" they are your friends.

RED to YELLOW will kill a FELLOW !!!!!
ps you will always get it right if you start with RED.

that was a Special community announcement !!!

so "now back to your regularly scheduled programs"

sorry I had too

Chicken Little · Aug 3, 2015

Laureate said:
As Josephus excellently pointed out, the tree of knowledge of good and evil is more than likely a tree who's fruit bears no (viable) seeds, and it just so happens that neither עולים 'babes' of men or trees have viable reproductive seeds.

The concept of 'not ready yet' and 'Likeness of Us' seem to indicate that the tree was forbidden for an unspecified season, for it was the 'Let Us...' who created Us in Their image, and after Their likeness, yet Our eyes were not opened like Theirs Until we ate of the forbidden tree.

In essence, we were supposed to be like them, but was not as regards to this particular ability to see, thus suggesting that we, (as the organic beings that we are), were still in the process of developing, which would permit some characteristic traits to lie dormant until their season would come to blossom, and thus reveal that we were always Like them, even before we came into season.

The forbidden Knowledge evidently pertains to the Mysteries, and Secrets of the Kingdom hidden since the foundation of the world, which we were not yet ready to know about, for as we all know knowledge is like a dangerous tool which can be used for either Good or Bad.

In Noah's day, Elohym accredited our mischeiviousness unto our immature state, thus reaffirming the 'not ready' state of our being.

When we consider how 'the beginning and end are the same', and see how Genesis starts off with two particular trees, (which our own mother was unable to discern between), and Revelations ends with two identicle trees of Life, this reinforces the concept that the tree of knowledge of good and evil it self was also evolving, thus 'Not Ready', hence עול immature, unripe, don't touch.

We have good reason to believe that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the same in appearance as the tree of life, because Eve only recognized one tree being in the midst of the garden when there was two;

Plus she clearly mistook the tree of knowledge of good and evil for a tree whose fruit would make one Wise, which according to proverbs, ('Wisdom') is a tree of life.

So thus as the scriptures indicate, she was duped by her own disbelief that she and her husband were indeed created in the image and after the likeness of Elohym, or else she would have never been tempted to attain unto being like Elohym.

The only discernable thing between us in the garden and Elohym other than us being his microcosm, and He being our macrocosm, was the Wisdom that comes from a mature being.

I strongly suspect that the tree of life it self could easily be mistaken for a/the tree of knowledge of good and evil, as the tree of knowledge of good and evil appeared to be a tree of life, i.e., capable of making one wise.

I first suspected this when I meditated on the parable of tares, What is more noxious?
a) a child that appears to be noxious simply because it is in the process of developemental growth, (everyone knows how gross a precious עול babe can be.), or...

b) a son who stumbles over the appearance of his siblings (who are in a state of developemental growth) with hatred, and vexation.
Notwithstanding, I believe an actual (genre of) plant(s) are being reffered to here as well, for nicotine/vitamen B3 is commonly condemned and considered noxious;

Notwithstanding it is the primary Nutrient for battling Pelagra which is one of the worlds top three forms of Malnutrition due to improper processing of grain, (primarily corn), and a deficiency of the crucial nutrient nicotinic acid, aka Vitamen B3.

I always wonder about if it was about training and timing also.
but later I believe that at least doing it with out his permission / rights was choosing a life without him.
thus thus in the old covenant had boats loads of stuff you shouldn't even touch and here again says
Heb 13:10

We have an altar, where of they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

thus he has always kept forbidden fruit in our face for a very good reason I think.

and about the opposite tree has it's laws also.

He promises to some churches that some will be given the right to eat from the tree of LIFE .

Rev 2:7

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 22:2

In the midst of the street of it, and on either sideof the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:14

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

does anyone know when we are or are not to eat from the tree of life?
we can make lots of assumptions. but do we know?
from all I can find in it . just don't do it there is important conditions / laws associated to it. . first that He give the right.
and a second condition I only found plainly stated in Enoch's record. and is hinted at here in these verses.
and what even made me question when we can or can't , was some ancient beliefs by Amazonian indians.
they knew NOT to EAT .

There is a right that is given or taken because of outside conditions and laws higher than we now understand .
because we don't know what we don't know. if we rely on our own knowledge , ideas and our own understandings.. we are all lost already.
but might I suggest that anyone who takes that fruit before they get permission from the real Lord of Lords and really his Father face to face in his city .. could get the same consequences that Adam and Eve did for stealing, taking with out permission or really against permission , or acts of rebellion . consequences being Expelled and cursed to die/decay/ or be punished with pain for the act of rebellion. etc. which one I don't know . I don't want to know . all I know is
"Don't touch that " or you get the hammer.. hammer time. not until I see the father face to face.
so is it about self will? or Obedience to him ? or both ?
Even lost tribes in the amazon have been told by their shaman and such not to eat from the tree of life until they are given permission by someone they can probably only define..
my huge problem there in lies who might be passing out permission and when they might be doing that !
I suspect the next round of temptation ( time of trail) or the one past that past the 1000 years , somehow might be like the old story and it has the same exact rhyme but a different tree.. . maybe the song should be labelled " rights and entitlements" or " our knowledge of the laws of a loving God " or maybe
"surely He would" ?

but what I know for sure is
"don't touch that"

Lulav · Aug 3, 2015

Chicken Little said:
maybe you didn't really want to know this but I just have too..
RED to BLACK is a friend to JACK ...( these kill the babies of other snakes including copper heads and other poisonous ones) so don't kill them or other kinds of "king snakes" they are your friends.

RED to YELLOW will kill a FELLOW !!!!!
ps you will always get it right if you start with RED.

that was a Special community announcement !!!

so "now back to your regularly scheduled programs"
sorry I had too

Good little ditty to memorize in case one comes across one. I am an artist so the way of remembering that if red touches yellow it ain't mellow is a better one. Yellow and red are considered warm colors, the division of them by the black cuts their intensity.

Lulav · Aug 3, 2015

Chicken Little said:
I always wonder about if it was about training and timing also.
but later I believe that at least doing it with out his permission / rights was choosing a life without him.
thus thus in the old covenant had boats loads of stuff you shouldn't even touch and here again says
Heb 13:10

We have an altar, where of they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

thus he has always kept forbidden fruit in our face for a very good reason I think.

and about the opposite tree has it's laws also.

He promises to some churches that some will be given the right to eat from the tree of LIFE .

Rev 2:7

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 22:2

In the midst of the street of it, and on either sideof the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:14

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

does anyone know when we are or are not to eat from the tree of life?
we can make lots of assumptions. but do we know?
from all I can find in it . just don't do it there is important conditions / laws associated to it. . first that He give the right.
and a second condition I only found plainly stated in Enoch's record. and is hinted at here in these verses.
and what even made me question when we can or can't , was some ancient beliefs by Amazonian indians.
they knew NOT to EAT .

There is a right that is given or taken because of outside conditions and laws higher than we now understand .
because we don't know what we don't know. if we rely on our own knowledge , ideas and our own understandings.. we are all lost already.
but might I suggest that anyone who takes that fruit before they get permission from the real Lord of Lords and really his Father face to face in his city .. could get the same consequences that Adam and Eve did for stealing, taking with out permission or really against permission , or acts of rebellion . consequences being Expelled and cursed to die/decay/ or be punished with pain for the act of rebellion. etc. which one I don't know . I don't want to know . all I know is
"Don't touch that " or you get the hammer.. hammer time. not until I see the father face to face.
so is it about self will? or Obedience to him ? or both ?
Even lost tribes in the amazon have been told by their shaman and such not to eat from the tree of life until they are given permission by someone they can probably only define..
my huge problem there in lies who might be passing out permission and when they might be doing that !
I suspect the next round of temptation ( time of trail) or the one past that past the 1000 years , somehow might be like the old story and it has the same exact rhyme but a different tree.. . maybe the song should be labelled " rights and entitlements" or " our knowledge of the laws of a loving God " or maybe
"surely He would" ?

but what I know for sure is
"don't touch that"

Not sure where you are going with this. The L-RD didn't tell Adam and Eve not to touch anything, Eve added that on when debating with the serpent.

Chicken Little · Aug 3, 2015

well that is the song I think about when I talk about this subject ... but I don't think I will touch it either .
everyone else, they can go for it , I don't mind learning by watch other folks mistakes..

but for me I won't touch until the Father says so face to face and he tell us we can. or I will go ask Enoch what he thinks the laws are concerning those trees.
which I believe is what Enoch says that we shouldn't touch or eat from it.( I will find it for you ) but in years of searching that is the only instructions I can find on that matter to date .

so what I scribbled about it from Enoch records is ( minute around 38 ( chapter 23/24( ? )ch. 25 I think is about a /the dismembered tree( Israel? and or The Tree of Knowledge? )" NO one shall touch the Tree of LIFE until Judgement Day where it will be transplanted to the temple of the Eternal king" ) so that is I think what Enoch says and that is good enough for me for now .

Now in Ezekiel's temple are maybe offspring of that tree lining both sides along the river that comes out of the temple. and it appears that can be used for healing the nations and they give fruit every month but there is lots of them not just one tree . but I will wait for proper instructions as to how and when and why and what to do with those also .
I think it is just that tree man is not to touch/ consume/ use in anyway until the 8th day ( Enoch says "Judgement day" , which is Great white throne I think) and the father +son/ they gives us right to it . Enoch does say no mortal shall touch it .. but as a ex mortal in a new and strange land.. I suspect I will get the protocols.
but even then Enoch talks about springs of wisdom and Ezekiel talks about those trees which bare fruits every month and fruit and leaves were given for the healing of the nations. It is all going to be good / awesome and it is all there for us but I will wait for the protocols as to how to access these things properly .

now everyone else might just jump right in there , but I don't mind learning by watching others mistakes.

What happened to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

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