What is apologetics anyway?

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anonymous person

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Wouldn't a demon who wanted to secure your damnation do exactly the same; that is, give you false beliefs and offer assurance that such beliefs were indefeasible?

A demon may desire to do the same.

I think we need to remember that God is sovereign. This means that the demons that do exist are subject to His will. Now if you have any reasons to think that God would allow a demon to give false beliefs to one of His children for whom He died and has chosen to dwell in and offer assurances that such beliefs were indefeasible then you may present them.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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A demon may desire to do the same.

I think we need to remember that God is sovereign. This means that the demons that do exist are subject to His will. Now if you have any reasons to think that God would allow a demon to give false beliefs to one of His children for whom He died and has chosen to dwell in and offer assurances that such beliefs were indefeasible then you may present them.
Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here? You haven't presented any reasons to think that there is a God who wishes to communicate with his worshippers via personal religious experience in the first place. As I alluded to earlier, this mechanism of divine communication must be fallible because so many people are receiving the "wrong" messages. So we need to determine the conditions under which personal religious experience reliably leads to knowledge about the divine.

As to the question of why God would allow a demon to implant false beliefs, I think a straightforward answer can be found in the Bible. The Biblical God allows all manner of cruel things to happen to the creatures he purports to love, even those who honour and worship him. So it doesn't seem contrary to Christianity to suggest that demonic forces can hijack the mechanisms God uses to communicate his truths to believers. The problem is inherent in the mechanism itself because, if you believe as Craig does, that the "inner witness" cannot be questioned, then one has no means of actually determining whether one's "inner witness" is in error. Anything that suggests error will be dismissed in favour of one's "inner witness."
 
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anonymous person

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Because, as you phrased it, you have to believe, to ask, to receive the "effect" of the "Holy Ghost". For it not to be circular, you would not have to first believe. I know I can't ask, because the thought of it is completely ludicrous.

Does not one have to first believe God exists and trust God to hear their cry before they can ask God to forgive them of their sins and come into their heart and save them?

How is it circular to say that you would first have to believe that the coast guard officer exists and that he can save you from drowning in the sea before you can ask them to throw you the life preserver?

How is that circular reasoning?


“Entities are not to be multiplied beyond necessity.”


How does this principle of parsimony show that God is merely a character in a book, and that Jesus and his apostles were merely characters inspired by actual person(s) of the time, and there were those that wished to create a means of controlling people via religion, with the promise of salvation? Or that writers of the Old and New Testaments, building on the knowledge of the failures of the religions before them, simply built in an assurance that the "truths" claimed in those texts are indefeasible?

What entities have I multiplied beyond necessity?

When you asked for evidence that would lend support the idea that God do not exist, and that Jesus was not who He and His apostles said He was.

But you insinuated that God was merely a character in a book though. You insinuated that Jesus and his apostles were merely characters inspired by actual person(s) of the time. You insinuated that here were those that wished to create a means of controlling people via religion, with the promise of salvation and that the writers of the Old and New Testaments, building on the knowledge of the failures of the religions before them, simply built in an assurance that the "truths" claimed in those texts are indefeasible.

In response I asked you for evidence of this. You made the claims not me.

Or, will you accept absence of evidence as evidence of absence, on the subject of gods?

This is a loaded question. You assume that there is no evidence for the existence of God.

It seems to me that if you were a seeker as you claim to be, you would be more concerned about responding to my questions instead of attempting to change the subject to whether or not I have posted here before under another account.
 
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Colter

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Archaeopteryx

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I stand corrected. Although I'm not sure if the term "apologetics" really suits. Atheism doesn't need apologetics because it is a response to theistic claims; it doesn't have its own body of doctrines that need to be defended. There are, however, certainly many misconceptions about atheism that need to be addressed, and perhaps that's partly what these sites seek to achieve.
 
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Colter

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I stand corrected. Although I'm not sure if the term "apologetics" really suits. Atheism doesn't need apologetics because it is a response to theistic claims; it doesn't have its own body of doctrines that need to be defended. There are, however, certainly many misconceptions about atheism that need to be addressed, and perhaps that's partly what these sites seek to achieve.

I see atheist as having a form of "doctrine" in such writings as The God Delusion. We discussed it before and you disagreed, I contend there is a neutral position of unbelief, "don't care, leave me alone, get out of my yard." But then there is "there is no God and I'm going to a religious form to set them straight!" So if there were "atheist apologetics" it would be the defense of the unproven belief that God does not exist.

I do however agree with the query of your OP.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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I see atheist as having a form of "doctrine" in such writings as The God Delusion. We discussed it before and you disagreed, I contend there is a neutral position of unbelief, "don't care, leave me alone, get out of my yard." But then there is "there is no God and I'm going to a religious form to set them straight!"
There are many reasons atheists would be interested in discussing religion; we've gone through some of these reasons before (1, 2, 3).
 
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James Is Back

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Thread permanently closed due to it being a General Apologetic thread which aren't allowed anywhere at CF.

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