Is Sola Scriptura a Heresy?

MikeEnders said:

When Paul was in Rome believers consulted Rome. When he was in Jerusalem they Consulted Jerusalem. Clement being in Rome say nothing.

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Clement was not the Bishop of Rome yet. Nor does the Pope always intervene.

MikeEnders said:

Is that a confession that the job of a pope has nothing to do with being a spiritual example?

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The primary job of the Papacy is to teach correct dogma.

MikeEnders said:

Jesus never state he made Petr Prime minister.

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Jesus gave Peter the keys of authority. Jesus said, "You are the rock and on this rock I will build my church." Now you may twist that around and interpret it differently, but you can't deny that Catholics base the Papacy upon scripture.

parousia70 said:

Just because we've had bad Popes doesn't negate the authority of the office itself, any more than the fact we've had bad predidents doesn't negate the legitimacy of the office of POTUS.

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We don't claim that the POTUS is picked by God to be his voice do we? If we did you would have a point against that but since we don;t the analogy flops pitifully. See the stupidity this leads to? God ordains and picks sinners who don't follow him to be his voice? and umm even for cash? Ridiculousness of the highest order

I have no doubt you will continue to stick your head in the sand to suit your doctrine but the fact that this voice of God can and has been bought for Mammon, raw cash, politics and occupied by the most despicable people who a spirit filled Apostle WOULD NEVER pick for all time invalidates the nonsense no let me correct that - the outright heresy - that we should give up Sola scripture because God picks the pope to tell us truth.

It seems impossible to me that anyone could claim protestantism as a legitimate form of the one true Church of scripture (or history).

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Because you are too deep into your own deception. I could take anyone off the street and explain to them that a process multiple times has caused unrighteous men to speak on behalf of God and they would all tell me in a heartbeat its impossible to rationally continue to trust that process.

Keep your Alleged apostolic succession that includes succession by cash. The rest of us all know God has no such spiritual succession.

MikeEnders said:

Jesus not then and not now has received the kingdom of Israel.

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Rather, Jesus is PRESENTLY the Ruling, Reigning King Of Israel, and is seated on the promised Throne of David.

Matthew 28:18
Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

Mark 1:14-15
Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

1 Peter 3:21-22
Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him

Revelation 1:5
Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth

Acts 2:30-36
David...being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens...Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

1 Timothy 6:15-16
[He] is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who alone has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see

Scripture clearly says that Jesus is the King of Kings now over heaven and earth. Read again the scriptures above. What do they say? They say Jesus is the reigning king over all heaven and earth now. He has taken the throne promised to David's son, according to Acts 2:30-36, and he reigns and does great things.

It is becoming clear to me why you have such difficulty recognizing the authority of the successive apostolic bishopric that Jesus Set up. How can you when you don't even believe Jesus Himself Has the authority to do so?

MikeEnders said:

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Read it. says nothing of what you claim. Just more twisting of the scriptures. Jesus never state he made Petr Prime minister. Jesus not then and not now has received the kingdom of Israel. When all does it won't be pope Francis or any guy living in Rome. ALL - EVERY LAST SCRIPTURE says that will be from Jerusalem. Another epic fail

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parousia70 said:

Rather, Jesus is PRESENTLY the Ruling, Reigning King Of Israel, and is seated on the promised Throne of David.

Matthew 28:18
Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

Revelation 1:5
Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth

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Good post and I agree!

All power and authority was given to Jesus/GOD to be the King of Israel.
After the ad70 destruction of Jerusalem, as prophecied, was completed, Jerusalem and it rulers never had the same power again. IMHO

Zeph 3
14 Shout for joy, O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem!
15 Yahweh has taken away His judgments against you, He has cleared away your enemies.
The King of Israel, Yahweh, is in your midst; You will fear disaster no more.

John 12:13
They got the branches of the palms, and came out meeting to Him and clamored: "Hosanna, being blessed the One coming in name of LORD, the King of the Israel

"Jesus gave Peter the keys of authority. Jesus said, "You are the rock and on this rock I will build my church." Now you may twist that around and interpret it differently, but you can't deny that Catholics base the Papacy upon scripture."

Can't deny it? LOL...Its easy because the papacy never was based on scripture. It was NEVER anything more than the fusion of Pagan/political Rome to the Church when Rome became Christianized

"upon this rock I will build my church " has only been twisted by the RC

You can take it that it was Peter's confession the church was built on or you could take it that Peter would be instrumental in spreading the Gospel around the world. that says absolutely nothing about THE RC papacy. The early church had no conception of building the church by anything else but witnessing and only in a catholic's fantasy did Peter go away thinking alright "I and I alone am now God's voice on Earth"

Open Heart said:

Studying Church history was pivotal in my conversion to becoming a Catholic.
The famous convert, Cardinal Newman, once said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."

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In my case, it was being deep into the Bible that caused me to cease being a RC.........

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/unbiblical-practices-in-the-roman-catholic-church.7537205/
Unbiblical Practices in The Roman Catholic Church

ooops...double post...sorry
.

MikeEnders said:

"upon this rock I will build my church " has only been twisted by the RC

You can take it that it was Peter's confession the church was built on or you could take it that Peter would be instrumental in spreading the Gospel around the world.

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How do you know which way is correct? whichever "Feels" best to you personally?

Does it mean just those two things? Who decided it means just those two things?
MikeEnders, guided infallibly by the holy spirit? ?

!

Open Heart said:

We all admit that at that point we were one. What we disagree on is who is the one church now.

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We do not admit that "at that point we were one." That's why I identified for you about a dozen different Christian church groups that were from that era when you said there were none except the RCC.

parousia70 said:

Rather, Jesus is PRESENTLY the Ruling, Reigning King Of Israel, and is seated on the promised Throne of David.

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You really need to go and sit down and read your Bible

"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my servants had fought that I might not be delivered up to the Jews; but now my kingdom is not from hence."
JOhn 18:36

6So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"7He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority"
Acts 1

Jesus left this Earth with no kingdom of this world and with no restoring of the kingdom of Israel. It awaits for him to return to restore it and he wont be a pope with a big hat on his head.

MikeEnders said:

...invalidates the nonsense no let me correct that - the outright heresy - that we should give up Sola scripture because God picks the pope to tell us truth.

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By Appealing to scripture alone you are automatically appealing to an authority OUTSIDE scripture to tell you what scripture is, which books belong and which do not. There is no such thing as Sola Scriptura.

Albion said:

We do not admit that "at that point we were one." That's why I identified for you about a dozen different Christian church groups that were from that era when you said there were none except the RCC.

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The truth is that in the Early Church, there was only one TRUE Church and it was called the Catholic Church. It was from this Church that today's Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox, can claim direct descent through apostolic succession.

Open Heart said:

Forget your ROMAN Catholic church. You use the slang to try to differentiate us.

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The Church of Rome, the Papal Church, the Roman Catholic Church...the one headed by the Bishop of Rome was hardly the only Christian denomination during the period leading up to ca. AD1500. That's the point.

The truth is that in the Early Church, there was only one Church and it was called the Catholic Church. It was from this Church that today's Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox, can claim direct descent through apostolic succession.

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Even if that were true, what you supported was the claim that until the Reformation we were "one." That's patently false.

Albion said:

Even if that were true, what you claimed was that there were no divisions until the Reformation. That's patently false.

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A small heretical group is not the same as a major schism. Why did you include Anglicans? They are post Reformation. And Arians never left the Church.

MikeEnders said:

You really need to go and sit down and read your Bible
.

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Again , please use the scriptures I posted and show us why they do not mean what I contend they mean:

For example Jesus said: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." Matt 28:18

MikeEnders says "no, Jesus was wrong, for He does NOT have all authority in heaven And Earth today"

Peter says: Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him

MikeEnders says "no, Peter was wrong, Powers and authorities are not subjected to Him"

John Says: Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth

MikeEnders says "no, John was wrong, Jesus is not the present ruler of the kings of the earth"

Sorry MikeEnders, Given the choice on which polar opposite view is should accept and believe, Yours or those of the Inspired apostles, I'm going to have to go with the Apostles.

But again, feel free to use the scriptures I quoted and demonstrate what they actually mean, if not what I contend.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Good post and I agree!

All power and authority was given to Jesus/GOD to be the King of Israel.
After the ad70 destruction of Jerusalem, as prophecied, was completed, Jerusalem and it rulers never had the same power again. IMHO

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Their deception is thick. They are trying to twist the example of a physical prime minister which only existed with a physical king into a physical prime minister WITHOUT a physical king.

The only thing they are left to claim would be straight up blasphemy and that would be the prime minister is the king of Israel.

Open Heart said:

A small heretical group is not the same as a major schism.

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Doesn't matter. Size does not count in this instance. AND there is nothing "small" about the Oriental Orthodox or Eastern Orthodox churches.