The key to the who (the we the us) is in the final verse you quoted...it is those who "first trusted in Christ". Evangelicals after the Reformed view tend to stop at verse 12 where Paul summarizes all this in the following verses which read:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
When God makes known the word of truth, the gospel...the Spirit is there urging us (because God prefers all would repent and come to salvation, but alas they will to not...Romans 1:20)...because of Christ's finished work, this salvation (by grace because God owes no man anything for all have sinned) is available to all...but people like being lord of their own life and doing what is right in their own eyes (deciding good and evil for themselves or by consensus). Self lordship (Genesis 3:5) must yield to the Lordship of Christ and even while we are yet sinners we must do this, trusting Him, relying on HIM and HIS work, cleaving to HIM for our salvation....so for those who will be saved, after they hear, they believe (and so it is by grace, through faith), and then they are sealed by the Spirit...
They are not sealed first so they can faithe, and all will not faithe thus will NOT be saved (even eventually)...
It not pleasing God to condemn the wicked (who are each their own lord who reject God and do not follow His word)...when we sin it is not God who rejects us, it us rejecting Him (Isaiah 59:2) OUR sin separates US from HIM...He offers grace in exchange to as many as shall receive it (in this case it is the man and work of the Christ/Messiah)
Only to those who will receive Him does He give the power/right to BECOME the children of God (John 1:12)...
They are not first His children (born from above) who then can receive...and all will not receive thus all are not His children (Romans 8:9)
The gospel IMO is this...we have all sinned (and sin) and thus are going to be expelled from His presence because their is no sin in Him...what we call gehenna is that place designed for Satan and his cohorts because this is their sin...disregard God and his word and do it our way...so here is where we also must go where we can each be lord of a kingdom of one where nothing of God is nor anything He would have provided..sorry no light that was His idea...no touch, no fellowship with even another (His ideas), your soulish needs ever gnawing but the remedies were all of Him...at any rate God loves us despite our rebellious pride (dont ask me why but I sure am grateful) and does not want this to be our end so in Christ He offers the solution to the prayers, oblations, sacrifices, supplications of all men everywhere through out all time...how to be reconciled with Him and found in His favor...Amen
The Lord bless
Paul
Thank you for the replay my friend. I do have a few questions.
The first thing I noticed is that you said
"God loves us despite our rebellious pride (dont ask me why but I sure am grateful) and does not want this to be our end"
I have two questions:
1) If God does not want this to be our end, then
why did He initiate it to begin with?
2) If God does not want this to be our end, then how is it possible that this could be anybody's end? Is God trying to bring people to repentance? How is it that God has to try to do anything?
"Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" Jeremiah 32:27
I'm not quite sure what your idea of hell is. Do you believe in eternal torment or eternal separation? Or is it something completely different?
Another thing I noticed us what you called "self-lordship", from which you quote Genesis:
"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:5
I'm not quite sure what self-lordship is from a Scriptural position, and I'm confused as to how this verse verifies it.
I understand that the Orthodox interpretation of Genesis is that Adam and Eve sinned by their own free will, thus thwarting God's plan that they should live forever. I cannot accept this because it is incomprehensible to me how God could have His will thwarted.
I would like to share with you the interpretation that I get from the Garden, and I'd love to hear your opinion of it.
"And God said, Let us
make man in our image, after our
likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." Genesis 1:26
God tells us right in the first chapter what His plan is for mankind. He is making us in His Image, after His Likeness. This required something that Adam and Eve did not possess when He created them: the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
I believe this next verse is where the true confusion lies:
"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of
every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou [shalt] not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:16-17
Here, we see that God tells Adam that he may eat of
every tree in the Garden. Then God warns man that if He eats of the Tree of Knowledge, he will die.
The problem with this translation is the word "shalt" in "thou shalt not eat of it". The word shalt is not in the original Hebrew. The original says:
וּמֵעֵ֗ץ (of the tree)
הַדַּ֙עַת֙ (of the knowledge)
ט֣וֹב (of good)
וָרָ֔ע (and evil)
לֹ֥א (not)
תֹאכַ֖ל (eat)
תֹאכַ֖ל (of)
God did not "command" then regarding whether they
could eat of the Tree, He warned them of the consequences if they did eat. With this in mind, let's see if we can make sense of this all.
"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD
God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall
not eat of every tree of the garden?" Genesis 3:1
So now we are introduced to the Serpent, whom God had made more subtile than any other beast. Right from the beginning, he lies to to Eve. God never said they may "not" eat of every tree, He said they "may" eat of every tree. This confuses Eve, but she responds with what God had told her:
"And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." Genesis 3:2-3
Then, the Serpent lies again, but deceives Eve by mixing his lie with truth:
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be
as gods, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:4-5
Eve did not know any better when she ate the Fruit. She had no knowledge of either Good or Evil.
How could she have made a rational decision? This was all in perfect alignment of God's original and only plan. God verifies that everything is going according to His plan next:
"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become
as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" Genesis 3:22
You see my friend, this was not a huge mishap on God's part by which He had to resort to plan B. There is no plan B.
God desired to make man in His Image, and this required the Knowledge of Good and Evil. God Himself planted the Tree and created the Serpent to tempt Adam and Eve.
Adam and Eve had this new Knowledge, but they lacked the Wisdom and Prudence to use it. Yeshua fulfills this prophecy and purpose of mankind, as He is the first Man to be given the status of Sonship and aquire the true Image of God:
"Who is the
image of the invisible God, the
firstborn of every creature" Colossians 1:15
Do you think this is a valid interpretation?
I'm sorry to make this about free will, but I feel as though that is what you think I'm trying to refute. I'm trying to show how the Scriptures reveal that God will gather all things back to Himself, and there is no eternal torment, eternal separation, or annihilation. God will gather every person that has ever lived, and teach them Righteousness and Truth:
"With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy
judgments are in the earth, the
inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness." Isaiah 26:9
I'm not quite sure I understand what it is you believe exactly. Gehenna is a park in the outskirts of Jerusalem, where the Jews would burn their trash. The Hebrew Scriptures never mention this as a place of eternal torment or separation. God does indeed speak of Gehenna in the Hebrew Scriptures, and He says:
"And they have built the high places of Tophet, which
is in the valley of the son of Hinnom (Hebrew transliteration of Gehenna), to
burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded
them not,
neither came it into my heart." Jeremiah 7:31
Thank you and God bless you my new friend.