Why do people believe in a Rapture?

BABerean2 · Jul 27, 2015

classicalhero said:
Because we aren't appointed to God's wrath, which is what the Great Tribulation is all about.

Was Stephen under God's wrath when he was stoned to death?

Shortly after Paul wrote of the Blessed Hope and the Glorious Appearing while he was in a prison cell, the Romans removed Paul's head.
Was God taking out His wrath on Paul?

The Book of Revelation contains references to those who have the witness of Jesus.
Would God pour out His wrath on those who have the witness of Jesus?

Christ did not save your Flesh.

He saved your soul.

Christ pours out His wrath on the ungodly, after we are gathered at the 7th trumpet.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

This passage was written to the Church.

.

Chicken Little · Jul 27, 2015

as they argue on about 2 or 3 says of events.. out of 3 1/2 years of him doing things to the earth.
BAB passages and read this .

2Th 1:10

When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

all I will say is amen and amen..

Straightshot · Jul 27, 2015

"Was Stephen under God's wrath when he was stoned to death?"

Stephen did not live long enough to see the Lord's coming judgment as it is portrayed in Revelation's account .... so your argument is moot in the first place

And Stephen is waiting for the Lord's call to this very day .... the call that you continuously refute [Acts 7:59-60] [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18]

There is a vast difference between the trials and persecutions of this present life .... and the Lord's coming punishment against an intransigent world of humans [Psalms 2; Revelation 6:12-17]

JLB777 · Jul 27, 2015

vinsight4u said:
The prince to come in Daniel 9:26 was Titus as a general with people.
This time is not part of the 70 weeks that counts as finishing the transgression.

unto the end of the war - desolations are -determined

This part slid into the section where the 70 weeks are split apart.
70 weeks - determined - to finish

Daniel 9:27 - till the consummation

Makes no sense what so ever.

Verse 26 is "outside" the 70 week time frame.

The prince who is to come is very much a part of the 70th week.

JLB

Straightshot · Jul 27, 2015

"Would God pour out His wrath on those who have the witness of Jesus?"

He will .... no doubt

Those who become believers in the days of the tribulation will be few and most will be martyred for their faith [mostly of Israel, and few of the Gentiles of the nations]

.... but this will not stop the Lord from bringing His time of wrath and judgment .... the time is on His call, and it is coming

The believers of the tribulation will not be believers before His judgment begins .... however, He will still offer His salvation for those who will turn

When He decides to pull the trigger against an entire unbelieving world no man will stop Him

This day is close and very few of the 8 billion humans on the earth are of His true ecclesia today .... even of a majority of the professing "church"

JLB777 · Jul 27, 2015

Chicken Little said:
you have picked out the verses that are talking about the gathering
or the awakening of all .
and made them one .

there is tons of other things happening ." But each one in his own order" yes starts with him..... ends with a ingathering of the the righteous ..

not before all in hell/ death being emptied to receive it's judgement and their judgement or maybe some their repentance. each in it's order. he has already prescribed that order.
that is just 2 days in a at least 3 1/2 time frame. there is lots more days than just two.. and it will come down in his order.
there is and has to be boats loads more things happening than just these two things.

Do you see that the resurrection of all those who are Christ's, are made alive at His Coming?

JLB

Straightshot · Jul 27, 2015

True ..... at His coming to call them .... just before He pounds the earth with His judgments of the tribulation [1 Thessalonians 5:1-9; Revelation 3:10]

Chicken Little · Jul 27, 2015

JLB777 said:
Do you see that the resurrection of all those who are Christ's, are made alive at His Coming?

JLB

no

how does he say that.. " as it concern the raising of the dead.. haven't you not heard I am the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.. you do great err , I am not God of the dead but of the living ...." you are looking at it wrong or something.
Guys he could do his wrath in minutes ... it isn't just about a rapture or a resurrection and it isn't about Wrath either.. .. I suggest you all think about what will really be going on and why it takes 3 1/2 years to do "his wrath" that he could do it in seconds.. and maybe get ready for that part of your race .

don't major on the minors..
and no one is getting caught up to float on the clouds.. and it won't be vacation time.

(and he is hiding it and has been hiding it for a reason........ "seal up the words the thunders spoke" . why . because there is a plan afoot....... can someone say shock and awe... it is time to find that and then seal it up in your heart and learn from him what your part of the race will be ..... then pray until it is time )

vinsight4u · Jul 27, 2015

Riberra · Jul 28, 2015

Straightshot said:
"Would God pour out His wrath on those who have the witness of Jesus?"

He will .... no doubt

Those who become believers in the days of the tribulation will be few and most will be martyred for their faith [mostly of Israel, and few of the Gentiles of the nations]

.... but this will not stop the Lord from bringing His time of wrath and judgment .... the time is on His call, and it is coming

The believers of the tribulation will not be believers before His judgment begins .... however, He will still offer His salvation for those who will turn

When He decides to pull the trigger against an entire unbelieving world no man will stop Him

(This day is close) and very few of the 8 billion humans on the earth are of His true ecclesia today .... even of a majority of the professing "church"

What makes you think that this day is close ?Is it the last blood moon in September who makes you believe that ?

Riberra · Jul 28, 2015

Straightshot said:
JBL777 said:

Do you see that the resurrection of all those who are Christ's, are made alive at His Coming?

Click to expand...

True ..... (at His coming to call them) .... just before He pounds the earth with His judgments of the tribulation [1 Thessalonians 5:1-9; Revelation 3:10]

How many coming of Jesus yet to come do you believe the New Testament is talking about ?

n2thelight · Jul 28, 2015

classicalhero said:
Why do I believe in the rapture, because according to 1 Thessalonian 5:9 says that we are not appointed to wrath and the Tribulation period is a time of God pouring out hi wrath. Also if you read Revelation the word church (or assembly from the Greek) appears in the first 3 chapters and no where else until right at the end, which is an epilogue to the book to remind us of our duty regarding the book of Revelation.

I Thessalonians 5:8 "But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation."

This verse is a double witness to Ephesians 6:10-20. Each of these items, are part of the Christians armor to fight the spiritual warfare coming upon us. Many Christians are going to be deceived into looking for a physical battle; when the war of our generation will be a spiritual war. A war of words, ideas, concepts and precepts which are all over God's Word [Bible]. Why would you need God's word, if your going to fly out of here? Armor has only one use, and that is for protection. It is to "stand against the fiery darts of Satan".

Ephesians 6:12; "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers [world rulers] of the [this] darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [heavenly] places."

The "darkness of this world" are Satan's entire world system of demons, deceptions by Satan's offspring the Kenites, and all those doctrines of demons and false teaching. Even the false shepherds who teach and know not the truths of God's Word are part of the "darkness of this world".

I Thessalonians 5:9 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"

You don't have to hide away to escape God's wrath upon the world. He is your Father, and loves you. God controls all that will come upon the earth, and Revelation 9:1-4 tells us He is the one who even gives the keys of Authority to Satan. Antichrist is the star that will fall to this earth, and he is Satan.

Your salvation from God's wrath will only come through your faith in Jesus Christ. When Satan comes to earth, the first seals of Revelation, and Matthew 24, and Mark 13 will have taken place and be present. These are seals of deception, brought on by Satan's claim to be the true Christ. Those claims will be backed up with wondrous works, and miracles, as well as world peace and prosperity to all the world.

Your only hope of not being deceived is to know exactly what will come about, and when it does come, it will be prophecy of God's word coming true. You will not have to worry about what to say, for when the time comes to give answer, it will be the Holy Spirit speaking through you [see Mark 13:11].

n2thelight · Jul 28, 2015

Mankind is about to go through the worst time in it's history,when true Christians will be needed the most,it's hard for me to fathom why you'll(rapturist)think you will be gone...

The trib is all about deception,satan pretending to be Christ

JLB777 · Jul 28, 2015

Straightshot said:
True ..... at His coming to call them .... just before He pounds the earth with His judgments of the tribulation [1 Thessalonians 5:1-9; Revelation 3:10]

His Coming is after the tribulation of those days when He comes to pour out the wrath of God on the ungodly.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:29-31

Jesus comes after the tribulation to gather His people at the resurrection and Rapture.

Once they are gathered to Him, He will execute vengeance upon the ungodly, and repay those who troubled the people of God.

7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10

The wrath of Almighty God will be poured out on the ungodly when Jesus comes after the tribulation.

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 19:10-15

He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Jesus pours out God's wrath when He comes AFTER the tribulation.

JLB

BABerean2 · Jul 28, 2015

Straightshot said:
And Stephen is waiting for the Lord's call to this very day .... the call that you continuously refute [Acts 7:59-60] [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18]

The souls of Stephen and Paul are in heaven with Jesus, now.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Their souls are not sleeping, as revealed by the truth of God's Word written above.

.

Chicken Little · Jul 28, 2015

and rev 10 ...what about Johns little scroll..

Bro.T · Jul 28, 2015

Lets take a look in Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

So if we have a first Resurrection then we have a second resurrection. But the first resurrection are the saints, those are they who keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus. Lets go to Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. So all the saints will meet the Lord in the air with the Angels and come down, back to earth

Bro.T · Jul 28, 2015

BABerean2 said:
The souls of Stephen and Paul are in heaven with Jesus, now.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Their souls are not sleeping, as revealed by the truth of God's Word written above.

.

In the scriptures its written in Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help". Why did David make this statement in verse 3? No man can give you eternal life; neither does any man have a lake of fire to put you in. Whom shall you put all your trust? Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong. Why should you do that? Pay close attention. Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. If his thoughts are higher than ours, why should anyone try to interpret His Word. Seems like David and Solomon are on the same page. Look at verse 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. His thoughts perish when he gives up his last breath. Man is made of 2 elements dust, and breath, no more, no less. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. When David said he gives up the ghost he simply means his breath.

In Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

The Prophet Isaiah confirmed what David and Solomon said. "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth". Does anything else need to be said? This is very clear. Look at verse 19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth. While you are alive you can praise the Lord.

Straightshot · Jul 28, 2015

"The souls of Stephen and Paul are in heaven with Jesus, now"

No man has gone to heaven except the One who has come down from heaven .... yet

And the martyrs seen in the seal portent of Revelation 6:9-11 are those of the coming tribulation period .... those who must wait until the end of the period

None of them are pre-tribulation martyrs of the past

It is true that a saved man's spirit returns to the Lord for safe keeping, but they know nothing and are waiting [Ecclesiastes 9:5; 12:7]

Those on the forum who want to reject the Lord's promise to keep them from His wrath and judgment are at risk

Straightshot · Jul 28, 2015

"His Coming is after the tribulation of those days when He comes to pour out the wrath of God on the ungodly."

Not true .... He is going to break in much earlier than you think with no warning to execute His unmitigated wrath and judgment upon an intransigent unbelieving lost world

Then after will He appear to the mortal survivors of the tribulation .... after the days of His vengeance .... [Jude 1:14-15]

And He will gather them, the first of Israel [Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Matthew 24:29-31], and then of the nations of the Gentiles [Matthew 25:31-46]

Those found believing [sheep] will enter and populate His coming millennial rule upon the earth .... those found in unbelief [goats] will be rejected

The gatherings are not resurrections of any .... if all were to be resurrected, there would be no mortal believers left to populate [reproduce in] the kingdom .... but there will be [Ezekiel 36; Zechariah 14:16-21]

Neither will the mortal kingdom inhabitants be exposed to Satan's deceptions during the 1000 years .... only mortal humans can be deceived and carried off by the devil [Revelation 20:1-3]

Why do people believe in a Rapture?

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