The ONE LAW Movement

Hoshiyya

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The Grace of Christ is the Queen of the household, the center of the room.

Well, (predictably at this point,) you quoted the least relevant part of the post. You are being purposefully difficult, it seems.

Here was the relevant part: they don't promote it. Maybe - and I know from experience that this is not true in PRACTICE, but let's say it is true - they tolerate it. God doesn't want to be tolerated. He wants to be loved and adored above all other things, and his Torah is his will. His will is his mind. His mind is his personality. You cannot love God without loving his personality and obeying him.
 
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Open Heart

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Well, (predictably at this point,) you quoted the least relevant part of the post. You are being purposefully difficult, it seems.
I'm not deliberately trying to be difficult, although I agree I got snarky last night, and I'm sorry for that. Sometimes I lose patience with the fact that you do not acknowledge the evidence that I provide you that the Catholic church has become accomodating to Messianic Judaism.

I understand your point about how it is insulting to say the CC "tolerates" Torah. However, I think you are using tolerate in a very different connation than I would.

tol·er·a·tion
ˌtäləˈrāSH(ə)n/
noun
  1. the practice of tolerating something, in particular differences of opinion or behavior.
    "the king demanded greater religious toleration"
    synonyms: acceptance, tolerance, endurance; More
NOTICE that in this definition one of the synonyms is ACCEPTANCE. It is this definition that I think is appropriate. Indeed I think that Tolerates is the wrong word entirely and accept (under certain circumstances) is the right word.
 
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ErezY

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What Yeshua spoke I will obey. Sad thing is I don't see those saying they follow Messianic Judaism here proclaiming anything (correctly) that Yeshua spoke. Yeshua did not come to place a scroll in your heart, he came to live in it personally. The one law message is as devoid of truth as any other heretical sect of Christianity. In fact it's mainly those who were drawn to reformed theology as Christians then bit the fruit of rebellion all together. I've never met a single born Jew who believes in the one law position. Every proponent was Christian and turned one law. I believe it's because this error doesn't/can't work on born Jews. Only those who had no Jewish raising. If anything I hope it has become clear that the one law position is NOT one held by Messianic Judaism. As proven in reality, IRL, as opposed to some online forum personalities. What's real confusing though is to have a forum titled Messianic Judaism but have it's regular members deny all forums of Messianic Judaism for their own one law theology. A theology that is opposed by the very group they claim to be promoting. I do believe this forum has hijacked the term Messianic Judaism in the name of one law theology. That's a shame, really. A dog can call itself a cat all day long, even meow and act like one. But in the end it's still a dog acting like a cat. A gentile can call itself Jewish all day long, even worship like one. But in the end they are still of the nations. And still called to glorify God where they are. Yeshua made that possible. It's the fulfillment of Torah, not the abandonment of it. Yeshua glorifies God, He is in us, we glorify God when we are united....did we not read the parsha this week? It's not 'our' works, it's his. Him living through us that glorifies God, not our works. The Shabbat rest we enter is 'resting from our own works'. Not working to be loved by God.
 
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pat34lee

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I've never met a single born Jew who believes in the one law position.

As most Jews are still blind to the truth and are either secular, with no religion, or are practicing the religion of Talmud rather than Torah, I would say that is a point for one law.

If you are going to cite 'most Jews', then you must say that Yeshua was a false prophet.
 
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ErezY

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As most Jews are still blind to the truth and are either secular, with no religion, or are practicing the religion of Talmud rather than Torah, I would say that is a point for one law.

If you are going to cite 'most Jews', then you must say that Yeshua was a false prophet.
I'd say your one law position has blinded you to the message of our Messiah. As well as this from the SOP of this forum; We strongly affirm the uniqueness and centrality of Yeshua as Messiah, but we avoid defining ourselves in contrast with traditional Judaism. We maintain a supportive stance toward Jewish history and the current Jewish community, even as we disagree with it in our view of Yeshua. We encourage learning Jewish history and values.

I've not seen a single one law proponent here respect this. Every one maintains a NON-supportive stance toward the current Jewish community. You don't seem to encourage learning Jewish history and values, you are only concerned with one law values and it's twisting of Jewish history to fit it's paradigm. Messianic Judaism is NOT accepted here, only one law theology. Prove my point again by rejecting the historical Jewish community, both Orthodox and Messianic....

I would say that the one law position makes Yeshua to be a false prophet. Because the theology is dead against the message Messiah gave. As well as the message Messianic Judaism proclaims. The one law position seems to be; everyone is wrong but me, and those who agree with me. Not to mention the disgusting display of pride and boasting in saying basically that if you don't obey the Torah you don't love God. OBEY!!!! show your love by obeying Torah!!!! OH BROTHER!~!! That was pathetic...
 
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Open Heart

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As most Jews are still blind to the truth and are either secular, with no religion, or are practicing the religion of Talmud rather than Torah, I would say that is a point for one law.
He can clarify if I'm mistaken, but I think he was referring to Messianic Jews.
 
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pat34lee

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That was pathetic...

You need to learn what one law and two house teachings are before you continue to pass on false teachings. You will be held to account if you drive one person from the truth. I am surprised you haven't thrown in British Israelism or Armstrong's COG. Most messianics who don't know better think that because a few people taught a mixture of beliefs, that all are necessary to two house or one law. That is like saying you must worship Mary to be Christian, regardless of denomination.

How much of Judaism today is the same as it was in Yeshua's day? Very little. You do not support those caught practicing false religions by imitating them. You show them the truth, which is they are lost and need Yeshua as much as any gentile. Their unbiblical traditions will help them no more than those in the church system.

Where does Yeshua teach that there is one law for Jews and another for gentiles? And where is the original premise in the Tanakh, as every teaching must begin there, preferably in the first five books?

You are married, I see, so you must have manners somewhere. Do you think that if you talked to your wife as you do here that she would take it? You do things for those you love because it pleases them. Pleasing them should also please you. If you don't do whatever it takes to please Yahweh, then you are not his.
 
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ErezY

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Pat, your admonitions and generalizations mean very little to me since I do not recognize the message of Messiah in your heart. It's like a bad cop trying to tell me how to follow the law. I've been a Jew all my life, and I've been Messiah's for a large part of it. I'm well aware of the one law/two house heresy that promotes itself as a Messianic Judaism. Sadly, I think you should listen to your own admonitions. The Spirit tells me it is you who did not understand what you heard. Even more sadly is that it's been pointed out to you that IRL Messianic Judaism does NOT support the one law/two house theology, and this forum says it avoids defining itself in contrast to traditional Judaism, yet you don't seem to care about either of these statements as you continue weekly to define yourself counter to traditional Judaism and promote a theology in the name of Messianic Judaism that it neither condones nor proclaims.
 
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pat34lee

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Pat, your admonitions and generalizations mean very little to me since I do not recognize the message of Messiah in your heart. It's like a bad cop trying to tell me how to follow the law. I've been a Jew all my life, and I've been Messiah's for a large part of it. I'm well aware of the one law/two house heresy that promotes itself as a Messianic Judaism. Sadly, I think you should listen to your own admonitions. The Spirit tells me it is you who did not understand what you heard. Even more sadly is that it's been pointed out to you that IRL Messianic Judaism does NOT support the one law/two house theology, and this forum says it avoids defining itself in contrast to traditional Judaism, yet you don't seem to care about either of these statements as you continue weekly to define yourself counter to traditional Judaism and promote a theology in the name of Messianic Judaism that it neither condones nor proclaims.

You must be more specific. RABBINIC JUDAISM. Not the Judaism of the scriptures , but the religion of talmud. This is why I normally present myself as Hebrew Roots rather than MJ, though the two are similar in most regards. The main difference is how much false tradition is crammed into most MJ charters and congregations.

Do you mix meat and milk? Cheeseburgers or pizza? Do you light candles and wash your hands on Shabbat? If yes to either or both, who is adding to the burden of the law?
 
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Open Heart

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Do you mix meat and milk? Cheeseburgers or pizza? Do you light candles and wash your hands on Shabbat? If yes to either or both, who is adding to the burden of the law?
Yes I don't mix meat and dairy. I light shabbat candles and have a special cup for hand washing. I don't consider such things terrible burdens, to be honest. They become habitual. I give credence to the Oral Torah. It is part of being a Jew. I realize you are not a Jew and won't probably ever do these things, but perhaps if you are just curious, you might be interested in reading Mark Kinzer's (UMJC, Hashivenu) article on A BIBLICAL DEFENSE OF ORAL TORAH. http://www.hashivenu.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=64&Itemid=268
 
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pat34lee

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Yes I don't mix meat and dairy. I light shabbat candles and have a special cup for hand washing. I don't consider such things terrible burdens, to be honest. They become habitual. I give credence to the Oral Torah. It is part of being a Jew.

Today, talmud is part of being a Rabbinic Jew. Not just a Jew, because none of the Ethiopian or or other African Jewish tribes had the talmud. They practiced the older form of Judaism, which is outlawed in Israel today. They had to convert to Rabbinic Judaism in order to make Aliyah.

There doesn't have to be a lot to discredit talmud, in fact, two things should be enough to see that:
1. we don't need it
2. It claims to come from Moses, but didn't, so it has no authority

Deut. 30
11 For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Joshua 8
34 And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law.
35 There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.
 
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Open Heart

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Today, talmud is part of being a Rabbinic Jew
Talmud is also part of some forms of Messianic Judaism. I would really like to hear your input on Kinzer's paper about the Biblical defense of Oral Torah in the other thread, if you would be so kind as to read his paper and comment.
 
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pat34lee

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Talmud is also part of some forms of Messianic Judaism. I would really like to hear your input on Kinzer's paper about the Biblical defense of Oral Torah in the other thread, if you would be so kind as to read his paper and comment.

I will try to do this later today. I can tell you now though, that there is no biblical justification or backing for talmud. In the meantime, here is someone who already has read and responded to it.
http://www.new2torah.com/2011/05/battle-for-the-bible/
 
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Open Heart

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I will try to do this later today. I can tell you now though, that there is no biblical justification or backing for talmud. In the meantime, here is someone who already has read and responded to it.
http://www.new2torah.com/2011/05/battle-for-the-bible/
Good link. I enjoyed the article. It was great that the author had read Post Missionary Messianic Judaism as well. (I'm crazy for Kinzer!) I'm afraid that a lot of his paragraphs about using Oral Torah which I think he intended to be dark and foreboding appeared to me to be sensible and logical. I was surprised that he spoke more about how difficult it was to use the Talmud in practical terms. Odd for an evangelical and a much better argument than simply the fact that the Talmud wasn't scripture, although still lacking -- Jews have been dealing with this unruly Talmud quite effectively for millenia. But anyway, very good read. Thanks.
 
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ContraMundum

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I know Juster's work well, I reject it categorically. The bible says one Law for Israel and the ger who attaches him/herself to the God of Israel. The problem sis... the MJAA was created to evangelize the Orthodox by Jews for Jesus back in the early 70's. In doing so, they are not accepted by the Orthodox and because they are Jewish, they have continued with something of a wall between themselves (the true Jews in their eyes because they have Yeshua) and any non-Jews, whether they believe or not. They have become an island unto themselves and thus they interpret from that paradigm. They can't accept anyone else being part of Israel because their target, the Orthodox, don't consider them part of Israel. They are seen as Christians in Jewish clothing.

We have the bible... and it states one law for Israel and the stranger (ger) with them... period! If you don't like that, if that stands against you beliefs, fine... but that is what the bible says. There are no covenants made with gentiles EVER in Scripture, only the House of Judah and her companions and the House of Israel and her companions, PERIOD. No "gate for the gentiles" in the New Jerusalem... just 12 gates, one for each tribe. Israel is the people of God, always has been and always will be.... but like Joseph who did not look like his brothers, and who wore a multi-colored (cultural) coat, Israel is not just Jews but also many from the nations in every color, race and shape.

Hmm...

Uh....too weird to respond to. Just......so surprising coming from you.
 
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BelieveTheWord

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So I'm working on a full response to the article. I haven't had enough time to get through it, but here is where I'm at. Quotes are from the article.

"Several streams teach such views, including Ephraimite groups that believe that Gentiles who have come to faith in Yeshua in some way fulfill the prophecies concerning the regathering of the Northern Tribes and their reunion with Judah. Generally, they teach that all believers are called to follow the same Torah instructions, with the exception of circumcision.
Other groups teach that Gentiles are both called to live the same Torah as Jews (except for circumcision), without teaching that they are in any way descended from the so-called “lost tribes” of Israel. These groups see all believers as grafted into the Olive tree, and therefore called to obey the same Torah as Israel. Perhaps the best-known proponents of this view are the writers of First Fruits of Zion, including Tim Hegg."


The authors touch on a major point here, yet they don't acknowledge what it means, let alone refute it. The northern kingdom (Israel) was scattered, but never regathered. At least not in any significant way. Ephraim was prophesied to become many great nations (Genesis 48:19:20), but we can't firmly identify which ones. Without knowing for sure if you are a descendant of Israel, you can either err on the side of being disobedient, or on the side of being obedient. It is a dilemma with two laws, but a non-issue with one Torah.
The authors take a quick view of some basic theological standpoints and come to this:

"One Law people would see the deficiency in this sort of theology. If Israel has not been replaced, but is still the covenant people of God, then the division of the Torah into an easy moral/ceremonial dyad cannot be sustained. For example, the festivals not only involved sacrifices, but also are memorials of the history of God’s grace and deliverance in the life of Israel, and the fulfillment of his promises to Abraham. Because of these non-sacrificial aspects of the festivals, they must still have validity. Indeed, why isn’t the entire Torah still valid where it does not depend on the presence of the Temple sacrificial system?
These issues and questions could serve as a healthy balance to some of the traditional teaching of the churches. But One Law teachers take another, crucial, step, which brings them into error. They argue that since Gentiles are grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel, both Jew and Gentile are now called to keep the same Law (except for circumcision). They would apply the Law in the same way to both groups, so that Gentiles in the Messiah are to keep the Sabbath, festivals, food laws, and much else that has not been common in Christian practice."



The authors rightly point out that the Torah is not quickly carved up into easy sections. They focus on “the festivals”. It does create issues and questions. The authors seek a healthy balance, yet simple obedience isn't seen as healthy, but an error. The appointed times have a significance in a memorial, and prophetic way. God says they are His (Leviticus 23:2), therefore they don't belong to the Jews. Certainly observing these wonderful events are very beneficial, if not critical, to a believer. Certainly that would be good way to show love and respect to The Creator. So why not? The deep answer is that it “has not been common in Christian practice.” Good enough for some, but it sounds more like people sticking with the broad path that Yeshua warned to avoid.

"Acts 15 specifically declares that nothing should be required of the Gentiles but four laws, three of them related to blood."

This statement is left unqualified and is completely absurd. No doubt these teachers tell believers what they ought to do based on Paul's letters. If only 4 commandments are given to Gentiles for all time, why would Paul, or anyone else bother with letters? Why bother with preaching? James CLEARLY gives the context as those who are coming, present tense, to The Father. The idea that those coming to a Christian or Jewish synagogue needing to have a certain level of morality is not at all foreign. In 1 Cor. 5 we see: “9I wrote to you in my letter to have no company with sexual sinners; 10yet not at all meaning with the sexual sinners of this world, or with the covetous and extortioners, or with idolaters; for then you would have to leave the world. 11But as it is, I wrote to you not to associate with anyone who is called a brother who is a sexual sinner, or covetous, or an idolater, or a slanderer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. Don't even eat with such a person. 12For what have I to do with also judging those who are outside? Don't you judge those who are within?”

"As has been noted, these are very similar to the Noahide laws. This does not mean that Gentiles are free to murder, steal, and dishonor their parents. The passage assumes a universal morality, as do Paul, Peter, and James (who were present that day), and John in their writings. As Romans 2 notes, Gentiles can perceive the law of God, even without the revelation of Moses, and are responsible for many standards that are also expressed in the Bible. For example, classic Roman moral law taught the ideals of monogamous marriage, honoring parents, honesty and much more. The essential and unique addition of New Covenant ethics is the sacrificial example of Yeshua.
Acts 15 clearly addresses issues beyond basic morality, issues that would not have been readily perceived in the Roman world. These added requirements were also necessary for Jewish-Gentile fellowship. Acts 15 emphasizes reverence for blood (which is reverence for life), a standard that goes back to Noah. Meat strangled has far too much blood in it. Roman ethicists rejected fornication, but an exception was made for cult prostitution. Idolatry was indeed the way of life in the Roman world and was part of good citizenship. In this command, the Gentile believer had to make a radical break with Roman culture.
One Law teachers make a big point of James’s statement that “Moses has been read every week in the Synagogue” (Acts 15:21). This is taken to imply that Gentile believers will, in the normal course of their new life, attend synagogue and adopt more and more of the whole Torah. Since Torah life is good and beautiful, why wouldn’t he? On this basis, the verse is taken as an exhortation to further learning and the adoption of the whole Torah. Thus, One Law teachers transform an ambiguous statement into a strong and unambiguous exhortation."


The authors make in incredible case here that Roman culture contained all the morality that a person would ever need. It's incredible in how foolish it is. Forget the Colosseum, gladiators, Nero, or the infamous Roman orgies. Forget ROMANS 1. Again what is the purpose of epistles and preaching if everything outside the 4 laws was already covered?
There are only three ways we can look at James' statement in regards to the weekly Torah reading: positive, negative, or he was stoned out of his gourd and what he said has nothing to do with anything. It seems the authors chose the last option, as they offer no opinion as to what the statement means. They certainly can't argue the hearing the Torah is a negative thing. If they recognize that it is a positive statement, then it can only be placed in the context of new Gentile believers coming to hear it. But that is the correct one, and the intent was certainly for Gentiles to learn from the Torah.

"They apparently overlook, however, the fact that these words spoken in the council were not included in the apostolic letter that was circulated among the congregations. If this were such a crucial exhortation to Gentiles, it is amazing indeed that the apostles, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, did not think it important enough to put in their letter!
It is most telling that in all the epistles to congregations there is not a single word commanding Gentiles to adopt the whole Torah, and no direct statement of hope that they will eventually adopt a fully Torah- keeping life in the same way as the Jews. There is no word of such an exhortation or even mild encouragement throughout the whole book of Acts, which is written in part to show the relationship of Jewish-Gentile fellowship!
Even were we to say that Gentiles are free to embrace Torah, the calendar of Israel, and more, there is no word that there is any covenant responsibility for Gentiles to do so. Acts 21 reinforces this impression. Here James tells Paul of the rumor that he teaches Jews who embrace Yeshua to forsake Torah. This of course is not true. So, Paul demonstrates this to be a false rumor by his Temple involvement. James reminds Paul that Gentiles were freed from responsibility for the full weight of Torah. Neither Paul nor James gives the slightest hint that they were encouraging full Torah observance among Gentiles. Paul could have said, “Not only do I not teach Jews to forsake Moses, but I even encourage Gentiles to embrace more and more of the Torah as they come to understand and appreciate it.” This is the emphasis of the One Law teachers, but there is not one word in the New Testament that explicitly encourages Gentiles to grow in keeping the whole Torah
."

Due to the completely un-Biblical position that the Roman Empire was a perfect embodiment of morality, the authors assume that citing the Torah as the standard for morality would be necessary. The apostles certainly wouldn't have shared this view. The converting Gentiles would go to the synagogue and hear the scriptures read because that's what the Christians did. A worshiper of Athena would go to the temple of Athena. A worshiper of Justin Bieber goes to his concert. A Muslim goes to a mosque. You get the idea. It is what they were signing up for for. It's what they wanted. They couldn't watch it on TV. There didn't have to be a commandment for it.

"With the coming of the New Covenant, there is a change of relationship between the circumcised and the uncircumcised. Since the New Testament teaches specifically on the relationship of Jew and Gentile in the new reality of the body of believers, we cannot simply transfer the practices of pre-Yeshua times into the New Covenant period."

The authors don't believe that ALL scripture is profitable for doctrine... just the ones they like. The entire TaNaK is completely swept under the rug with no justification whatsoever. This isn't surprising because there isn't any justification for such a terrible error.

"Yeshua in Matthew 5:17-18 teaches obedience to the least of the commandments. He was speaking to Jews in period when the Temple was still standing and it was possible to keep the Torah to a much greater degree than now. To teach people to obey the least of the commandments, however, assumes that they keep them according to the intent of the commandment. It does not mean that Gentiles should be taught to keep all the details of law given to Israelites."

There is deceptive tactic here. They are drawing your attention to an incomplete portion of Scripture. By omitting verse 19, they hope to avoid an obvious conflict with their dispensational conclusion. The passage reads:
17"Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. 19Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.”
There are two things here the authors hope to avoid. The first is that those who will be called greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven will both obey and teach the Torah. If Gentiles do not adhere to this, they will not be among the greatest in the Kingdom. It is clearly a Kingdom issue that transcends national differences. The second is the implications of the fact the Yeshua sees the righteousness of the Rabbis as severely lacking. This is a problem considering that Judaism plainly states that that the Mishnah, a foundational document of Jewish practice, is derived from the Rabbis of this period. Towards the end of the article you will see why the authors want to avoid offending Orthodox Judaism.

"Galatians 5 is a watershed passage. Here Paul in the strongest terms exhorts Gentiles not to receive circumcision. Some One Law teachers want to allow a legitimate option of circumcision, so they add the proviso that it should not be done for the wrong reasons. Yet, this is not in the text. The New Covenant offers the fullness of God’s blessing upon Gentiles without the necessity of circumcision. This was not the case in the Mosaic order.
When Paul writes, “Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law” (v.3), it is impossible to escape the implications of this verse. If one is circumcised, he is obligated to keep the whole law; if one is not circumcised, he is not obligated to obey the whole law. Paul’s statement would make no sense if Gentiles were already obligated to keep the whole law! Again, there is no qualification here. Paul does not write, “of course, I would like you to be able to keep the whole law as I do, but this should be gradual as you understand and not by the requirement that would come from circumcision.” This is exactly the kind of qualification that Paul does make for celibacy in I Cor. 7. But he does not make it here concerning the law."


The authors, again, are not honest with this portion of text. The full portion reads:
"1Stand firm therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and don't be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing. 3Yes, I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4You are alienated from Christ, you who desire to be justified by the law. You have fallen away from grace. 5For we, through the Spirit, by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision amounts to anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith working through love.”
First of all, Paul says don't be entangled AGAIN with a yoke of bondage. Are we really supposed to believe they were entangled with Torah observance before? Also if Paul refers to Torah as a yoke of bondage, it is blasphemy. Torah is life and blessing! (Deut. 30:11-20) Next up Paul doesn't just say that this circumcision obligates one to obey the whole law, he says it will cut them off from the Messiah! They will be damned for doing so. There is no way that Paul can be referring to keeping Torah according to the teaching of our Messiah.

"Finally, let us look at Colossians 2. Here we are told that no one is to be allowed to judge the Colossians for practices concerning food or drink, a new moon or a Sabbath, or special feast days. These are a shadow; the substance is the Messiah. The clear and plain meaning of the text is that no one is to judge them as to whether or not they observe these days. In an Oscar-winning performance, some One Law teachers twist this text into an exhortation to the Colossians to keep these practices so well that no one would be able to judge them!"

I'm not going to win any Oscars, I'm just going to check the context in Colossians 2:
“Be careful that you don't let anyone rob you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Christ. 9For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily, 10and in him you are made full, who is the head of all principality and power; 11in whom you were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ; 12having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,14wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;15having stripped the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16Let no one therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath day,17which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's. 18Let no one rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshipping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19and not holding firmly to the Head, from whom all the body, being supplied and knit together through the joints and ligaments, grows with God's growth. 20If you died with Christ from the elements of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to ordinances, 21"Don't handle, nor taste, nor touch"22(all of which perish with use), according to the precepts and doctrines of men? 23Which things indeed appear like wisdom in self-imposed worship, and humility, and severity to the body; but aren't of any value against the indulgence of the flesh.
Anyone who is paying attention can see from the bolded text that this has NOTHING to do with the Torah or Judaism. The people who are judging are angel worshiping philosophers relying on traditions of men, elements of the world, voluntary humility, and a puffed up fleshly mind. Their ordinances are according to the precepts and doctrines or men... NOT TORAH!Scholars knowingly and deliberately twist this passage because they NEED to. If we put the context correctly on lawless pagans, then this passage absolutely proves that the Colossians were eating and drinking according to Torah. They were observing Feast Days. They were observing New Moons. They were keeping Sabbath.

"One of the serious problems with One Law interpretation is that it seems to ignore the awesome change that has come through the death and resurrection of Yeshua. The eschatological Kingdom has come and Gentiles are invited into full spiritual participation without the pre-Yeshua requirements. The spiritual equality of Jew and Gentile in the Messiah is a monumental change. The Gentile in the New Covenant has a far better status than the uncircumcised alien and even the pre-Yeshua Jew, because he that is least in the Kingdom is greater (in privilege) than John the Immerser. He is even raised with Messiah and spiritually present with Him at the throne of God (Eph. 2:5). There is no higher status."

Again the authors offer no proof of some “awesome change”, it is just an assumption based on flawed interpretation. They say, “There is no higher status.” Yet they will will go on to assert that one law for mankind usurps the Jews of their higher status.

"If such a Gentile is called into the Messianic Jewish community and its Torah-based way of life, on behalf of the restoration of Israel, he or she is worthy of honor. But the distinctive way of life mandated in the Torah for Israel is not presented as the ideal for all peoples."

This paragraph is quite interesting. If we follow the authors' interpretation of Galatians 5, then these people they claim are worthy of honor, are actually going to hell. This is important to mention, because it shows just how inconsistent in interpretation you have to be when concocting or defending false doctrine.
 
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Open Heart

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The authors don't believe that ALL scripture is profitable for doctrine... just the ones they like.
This is pretty much how every person feels about those with a different view.

Your post was a killer post. I definitely enjoyed reading it. What an asset to the thread!
 
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visionary

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A gentile can call itself Jewish all day long, even worship like one. But in the end they are still of the nations. And still called to glorify God where they are. Yeshua made that possible. It's the fulfillment of Torah, not the abandonment of it. Yeshua glorifies God, He is in us, we glorify God when we are united....did we not read the parsha this week? It's not 'our' works, it's his. Him living through us that glorifies God, not our works. The Shabbat rest we enter is 'resting from our own works'. Not working to be loved by God.
Hopefully people of other nations are not calling themselves Jewish... Torah observe should be just respect and love revealed in the believer.
 
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