Do past and current LDS leaders knowingly continue a fraud?

Ironhold said:

All we're asking is for people to give us specific details that we can work with.

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Hi,
No that is not true.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Hi,
So what is it that Mormons want with the word or concept of Christianity? Is it to be okay with God, even if they do not understand Jesus correctly?
If it is that, wanting to be acceptable to God, even though they have some errors about God and about Jesus, should that not be allowed, as all of us have some errors probably about Jesus and about God.
If the Mormons merely want to beat on Nicene Christians, to make them into Mormons Christians and then on to Mormons, that should never be allowed, and I think Jesus forbade that in Mark 9:38-42. Mark 9:38-42, those words by Jesus forbade the Protestant Inquisition and it's predecessor the Spanish Catholic Inquisition.
One of the concepts of Jesus in Mark 9:38-42 is not to anger those who know less than you do about God, it is not to anger them about God.
Inqusitions do that, and the impetus here is on both the Mormon side and on the Christian side, to not anger each other, according to Jesus Christ in Mark 9:38-42.
So, I wonder why the Mormons want to be called Christians, but when I see Nicene and Mormon Christians get together it is anything but peaceful, as fears possibly arise.
No matter what the reason, both sides can try these items:

One experiment is worth a thousand expert opinions.

The other is to know all is to forgive all.

Both of those items are not Biblical. Yet, both of those items work. Both of those items have been tested, and both have come from others, not me.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

katerinah1947 said:

If the Mormons merely want to beat on Nicene Christians,

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We're not out to beat on anybody.

What we want is for people to actually do their homework and study so that they can understand things for themselves.

Ironhold said:

We're not out to beat on anybody.

What we want is for people to actually do their homework and study so that they can understand things for themselves.

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Hi,
And what do you want next? After they study, what do you want next?
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Ran77 said:

This is how it really works -- either you said what I claimed you said (which you did) and in that case I have not lied. Or you did not say what I claimed you said and in that case I would be guilty of lying. The use of sarcasm doesn't determine whether a statement is true or not. There is no secret coded truth involved except possibly in your imagination.

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Hi,

You are telling me that you literally meant what you said. Fine

Are you seriously trying to claim that you cannot see the statement you made had a possible double meaning? If so, I will try and remember this about you, as it is rare, and it would hurt your feelings, thus resulting in me owing you an apology.

If you were literal, and literally meant that, then yes, I really made a mistake. And, yes, if I have insulted you, or hurt you, or impuned your character in any way from that, Really, I am not only sorry, but I will try and remember you, so that I never make that mistake in the future with you ever again.

However, I have done three experiments on teasing. I have given up teasing while telling no one, that I had done that or was doing that. Within three months I had all the data I needed from that.

Resoundingly when the experiment was done, and oh yes after I disclosed to my work mates that I had finished that experiment, Resoundingly they pleaded with me to start again. I wouldn't do it at first.

Eventually I did.

A year or so later, because of what I learned I could do with giving up all forms of teasing, but of course also doing no white lies, I wanted to do it again, for it's benefits. I told people that I was going to do it again.

Eventually everyone ganged up on me and asked me please to never do this again. I complied, as I by then knew the problems that it created. The problems were mine. The problems were theirs also. I gave in to their requests.

Later, I was asked by God to give up teasing. I was surprised. I knew what the problems were going to be. God asked me though. So I did it.

About 10 months or a year later, I was playing all day with an angel at work. Meaning I know who it is, and no, I cannot see him. But, we played all day. That day I went back to teasing. Now, I do it or do not do it at a whim.

The problem for me was to try and figure out why I was allowed again to not tease, and then to start again.

First let me tell you the situation. For 10 months I was working at a museum with the public. The mix of people is amazing. Giving up teasing, allowed me to converse with young, old, educated, not educated, war veterans, civilians, American, non Americans, flawlessly. No one misunderstood me.

I was allowed to tease again by that angel, hopefully of God, after that assignment was over. That was an assignment from God. I asked. I asked. I asked again. Each and every time, the answer was yes, I want you to go there.

When I was done, I saw why. The staff problems were over. The stalker Narcissist was gone, the partial light sociopath was taken care of, the liar was not lieing so much, and then there was no reason for me to be there. That was a terrible toll on me, and I am happy it is over. Full emersion seems to be how God puts me into one situation or another.

On giving up teasing, I learned that teasing is telling a lie to tell a truth. The truth the other person wants to tell can be hurtful or pleasant, but it is still a lie to tell a truth.

On giving up teasing in all forms, I learned something else, what was hard for me to solve, was now easy. That is what I did not want to give up.

On giving up teasing in all forms, I found I could not understand others easily. Eventually, I could not even understand the local News Program.

What you said earlier, I could see it both ways, in the teasing form and the literal form. I will try and remember with you, that you were not teasing, and that you do not seem to know what that is.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

This thread has been cleaned up of off topic and flaming posts. Please stay on topic

Flaming and Goading
● Please treat all members with respect and courtesy through civil dialogue.
● Do not attack another member's character or actions in any way, address only the content of their post and not the member personally.
● NO Goading. This includes images, cartoons, or smileys clearly meant to goad.
● Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed.

katerinah1947 said:

You are telling me that you literally meant what you said. Fine

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What I am telling you is I accurately quoted you. The presence or lack of sarcasm doesn't change whether a statement is true or a lie. The accusation you made (content of a post) is flawed. Not to mention that focusing on my integrity (content of a post) is unwelcome and unnecessary.

katerinah1947 said:

What you said earlier, I could see it both ways, in the teasing form and the literal form. I will try and remember with you, that you were not teasing, and that you do not seem to know what that is.

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It is unfortunate that the content of your post focuses on what you perceive as my lack of intellectual capability. Shouldn't we really be focusing on the topic rather than demeaning my intelligence? I am formally asking you to return to the topic and leave your personal observations about me out of the conversation, please.

So what is the comment on those 2 articles???---

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,
And what do you want next? After they study, what do you want next?
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

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How can a person defend a faith that they barely understand?

Ask yourself that question and you'll find the answer to yours.

fatboys said:

I read them and what about them?

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That's what I want to know.

I'd like to see actual citations and whatnot indicating where the objections happen to be.

fatboys said:

I read them and what about them?

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Again??!!---I said whst was wrong with them in post #409, which was ignored with a claim is was not being specific---how more specific do you need me to be??

mmksparbud said:

Well that doesn't surprise me---they are totally the opposite---0that's all. One says that Smith knew nothing about polygamy, was against it, that Mrs Smith also was against it and that she knew nothing about any other marriages as there were none--the other says Smith had 33 other wives and the Mrs Smith did indeed know about at least 4 of them. You don't see a problem with that??? Both of them are made out to be liars--and that by the church!

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What is it about that post that you do not understand what I am asking?? It seems very plain and I need to know so I can improve my communication skills!

mmksparbud said:

Again??!!---I said whst was wrong with them in post #409, which was ignored with a claim is was not being specific---how more specific do you need me to be??



What is it about that post that you do not understand what I am asking?? It seems very plain and I need to know so I can improve my communication skills!

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You say that they are opposite... yet give us nothing as proof.

For example, are there statements within each article that directly contradict each other? Do the facts presented contradict each other? Et cetra.

This is something that your average 101 class expects from students when they write papers.

fatboys said:

I can not understand how we do not have to do anything. You believe that we do not have to make any effort to be saved? Hoe about the effort it takes to listen to the prompting of the spirit or the effort it takes to believe in Christ and the effort it takes to strengthen our faith.

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Hi,

Yes, in my case I worked hard. Yet, Biblically I am told that it really wasn't me, it was God.

If I could take credit, I would say that I spent 40 years just learning about God and what was not of God. Yet, I think I cannot say that Biblically, as the Bible seems to say, none of us look for Him.

I work hard now, in a way. And even that, I think is caused by God, rather than being me.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Ironhold said:

How can a person defend a faith that they barely understand?

Ask yourself that question and you'll find the answer to yours.

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Hi,
Okay, I am stlightly confused, by your statements.

How can who defend a faith they barely understand? Do you mean you or I?
After I learn about your religion, what do you want me to do next?

I worked with the Mormons as I was coming up to speed Biblically. I had an issue with them. on what they said would happen, and what did happen, in a meeting.
As a result I am not a Mormon. Is that what you meant? After I read your books, which I did, after I went to your services which I did and after I found nothing that was provable true, I just sort of dropped out.
I could do that again, but what if I do that again, and get the same results? If I do, what do you want me to do next? That was my question.
You want me, and everyone here to know what your group represents. My question was, after I find that out, what do you want next, if I find flaws?
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

As I've mentioned a few times before, I've found myself in situations in which mainline Christians tried to play "defender of the faith" despite - by their own admission - their not understanding the faith that they were trying to defend.

For example, one individual claimed that his knowledge of the Bible was superior to mine solely because of his denominational affiliation. When pressed, however, he admitted that he hadn't even read the Bible cover-to-cover yet; later discussion revealed that he didn't even know how the Bible was even compiled. I wound up having to stop the discussion just to try and teach him these basics so that we could even continue the discussion in the first place.

Hi,
Fair enough.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Hi,
As I have said before. I am Trinitarian. That is not a light position to hold. It took me ten years trying to prove the Bible wrong and forty years thinking there was no proof that God exists.
Eventually, after failing to prove it wrong, I ran what is called controlled experiments, after all it is what I was doing for a living then, and who knows it might work where merely trying to prove the Bible wrong did not.
It turns out even though those experiments could have had, no results, or an answer that the Bible was not the Word of God, that is not what happened.
That is some of my experience, Biblically.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

I am willing to reread the Book of Mormon Again for you. I am willing to be objective, still.

If I go on talking, I would rather go on with where I am now with God.

Because, after the Bible was proved to be Real by those controlled experiements, for the first time in my life, I was able to read that book, without wanting it to prove anything to me. I always suspected it was false before. I did.

Stuff happened after, I knew I could read that book, without wondering anymore.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

mmksparbud said:

So what is the comment on those 2 articles???---

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My comment on the article remains the same - I don't intend to try and guess what you, or anyone else, might possibly think is problematic. I don't read minds.