Sorry Jim - nothing in your proof text even mentions apostolic authority
What "proof text."?
Its the whole household of God. Trying to use that passage to claim some body of richly clad guys in gowns speak for God over the rest of the church is an epic fail
Richly clad? Many of them were "richly clad" in their own blood because they were martyred by the pagan Romans. Or are you referring to the Protestant pastors in the $2000 suits with the Rolex watches driving Mercedes-Benz cars and living in multi-million dollar mansions and having their whole family on the church staff drawing big salaries and dipping into the petty cash drawer every day? Those richly clad guys?
But you have made it abundantly clear that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Well what leadership would that be? As a protestant I have a lot of respect for my leadership.
Of course you do. You don't know any better.
I do have disdain for some other leadership but not the ones who I call leaders.
That's because you think you are qualified to judge people you don't know about theology that you don't know.
I tend not to follow ones that have created false doctrine after false doctrine. So ummm I guess you will have to be more specific and identify what leadership you are talking about. Some leadership it is an honor to reject.
What false doctrines would those be, Mike? Sola Scriptura? The "rapture" "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Thats fine and dandy Jim but nowhere does it say they get to make up doctrine or are over the written word of God in fact those that teach the written word of God according to the written word of God are worthy of double honor
Oh! Now you make up your own scriptures!
The "New Testament" had not even been written when Paul wrote: "The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching." Do you see "the word" in that verse? If you do, you're hallucinating because it's not there. How facile you are with adding to scripture to give the appearance of basing your nonsense in the word of God!
And the scriptures they preached from were the Old Testament because the NT did not yet exist when Paul wrote that. In fact, not a single Gospel had yet been written when he wrote that.
Again you will have to identify whose side you are talking about. Makes all the difference . I ought to be and should cherish being a thorn in the wrong side.
What I quoted you told you to be submitted to the leaders of the church, not to be a thorn in their sides. I guess plain English isn't your long suit.
Not every Christian because thats not what the passage says it says the entire household of God is the church
The entire church makes up the household of God but the entire church isn't qualified to be apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers or evangelists. Those who are qualified are those who determine doctrine. Not the entire household as some can't even read.
Such vast arrogance. Its a well known fact, that you would do well to educate yourself on, that a great many in First century Jerusalem could neither read nor write. referencing their reading level as a put down would have most of the apostles looking down their nose at you - not the other way around. I guess I missed where Jesus queried the reading level of the fishermen he called to be his disciples.
I wasn't talking about 1st century Jews, Mike. I was talking about people like you and, in you response, you have provided me with an excellent example of not understanding plain English.
No he didn't. There he is merely saying he led some to Christ and as such was like a father.
There you go adding words to scripture again. Paul did NOT say he was LIKE a father. He said he WAS a father.
Here's a hint: If you have to change scripture to make it fit your theology, your theology stinks.
In fact theres an admonishment from Our lord not to give that title to anyone.
So what do you call you male parent? What do your children call you?
I am sure you have an explanation for it but I am sure you realize I will be TOTALLY unimpressed by it
Of course you will be unimpressed. You now everything better than the apostles. You're a veritable Bible genius. That's why you think you can keep "correcting" what they wrote when it doesn't match your "perfect" knowledge.
[/QUOTE]Jim since you neither brought me to Christ not do i own any calling anyone father on earth besides my Dad and God in heaven [/QUOTE]
Now you have the brass to correct Jesus, Mike. You even correct God!
Jesus did not say "Call no man father
except your dad and your Father in heaven."
Only heretics put words in Jesus' and the apostles mouths to try and make their heresies sound legitimate, Mike.
If calling you by your name is disrespectful then it will just have to be.
I never said calling me by my name was disrespectful. When you make stuff up and attribute it to someone else you make yourself a liar, Mike. Liars' place is in the lake of fire, Mike. Maybe you should seriously consider not making up stuff that Jesus or Paul or even I didn't say and presenting it as what we did say.
You are not getting a title that belongs to my God or my dad from me. As the scriptures say I will not give that glory to anyone else.
Is that what the scriptures say, Mike? If you actually knew what the scriptures say you would realize that Jesus gave God's glory to all who believe in him. (John 17:22)
Now, if you MUST respond, do try to do so without falsifying what the scriptures and I have said, OK, Mike?
Love you.
