Papal encyclical did not settle scientific questions, says former Vatican official
- Thread starter LivingWordUnity
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It says it in the encyclical itself (emphasis added):
VII. A VARIETY OF OPINIONS
60. Finally, we need to acknowledge that different approaches and lines of thought have emerged regarding this situation and its possible solutions. At one extreme, we find those who doggedly uphold the myth of progress and tell us that ecological problems will solve themselves simply with the application of new technology and without any need for ethical considerations or deep change. At the other extreme are those who view men and women and all their interventions as no more than a threat, jeopardizing the global ecosystem, and consequently the presence of human beings on the planet should be reduced and all forms of intervention prohibited. Viable future scenarios will have to be generated between these extremes, since there is no one path to a solution. This makes a variety of proposals possible, all capable of entering into dialogue with a view to developing comprehensive solutions.
61. On many concrete questions, the Church has no reason to offer a definitive opinion; she knows that honest debate must be encouraged among experts, while respecting divergent views. But we need only take a frank look at the facts to see that our common home is falling into serious disrepair. Hope would have us recognize that there is always a way out, that we can always redirect our steps, that we can always do something to solve our problems. Still, we can see signs that things are now reaching a breaking point, due to the rapid pace of change and degradation; these are evident in large-scale natural disasters as well as social and even financial crises, for the world’s problems cannot be analyzed or explained in isolation. There are regions now at high risk and, aside from all doomsday predictions, the present world system is certainly unsustainable from a number of points of view, for we have stopped thinking about the goals of human activity. “If we scan the regions of our planet, we immediately see that humanity has disappointed God’s expectations”.
- Laudato si'
Note: I quoted two full paragraphs (a full section, actually) from the encyclical and included a link to the encyclical on the Vatican's official website so that no one can rightly say that I'm quoting out of context.60. Finally, we need to acknowledge that different approaches and lines of thought have emerged regarding this situation and its possible solutions. At one extreme, we find those who doggedly uphold the myth of progress and tell us that ecological problems will solve themselves simply with the application of new technology and without any need for ethical considerations or deep change. At the other extreme are those who view men and women and all their interventions as no more than a threat, jeopardizing the global ecosystem, and consequently the presence of human beings on the planet should be reduced and all forms of intervention prohibited. Viable future scenarios will have to be generated between these extremes, since there is no one path to a solution. This makes a variety of proposals possible, all capable of entering into dialogue with a view to developing comprehensive solutions.
61. On many concrete questions, the Church has no reason to offer a definitive opinion; she knows that honest debate must be encouraged among experts, while respecting divergent views. But we need only take a frank look at the facts to see that our common home is falling into serious disrepair. Hope would have us recognize that there is always a way out, that we can always redirect our steps, that we can always do something to solve our problems. Still, we can see signs that things are now reaching a breaking point, due to the rapid pace of change and degradation; these are evident in large-scale natural disasters as well as social and even financial crises, for the world’s problems cannot be analyzed or explained in isolation. There are regions now at high risk and, aside from all doomsday predictions, the present world system is certainly unsustainable from a number of points of view, for we have stopped thinking about the goals of human activity. “If we scan the regions of our planet, we immediately see that humanity has disappointed God’s expectations”.
- Laudato si'
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This puts it into perspective:
"Everything passes, only God remains. Indeed, kingdoms, peoples, cultures, nations, ideologies, powers have passed, but the Church, founded on Christ, notwithstanding the many storms and our many sins, remains ever faithful to the deposit of faith shown in service; for the Church does not belong to Popes, bishops, priests, nor the lay faithful; the Church in every moment belongs solely to Christ." - Pope Francis (emphasis added)
"It is the mission of the Magisterium to affirm the definitive character of the Covenant established by God through Christ with His People in a way which is consistent with the 'eschatological' nature of the event of Jesus Christ. It must protect God's People from the danger of deviations and confusion, guaranteeing them the objective possibility of professing the authentic faith free from error, at all times and in diverse situations. It follows that the sense and the weight of the Magisterium's authority are only intelligible in relation to the truth of Christian doctrine and the preaching of the true Word." - Donum Veritatis
"When comparing doctrines with one another, they should remember that in Catholic doctrine there exists a 'hierarchy' of truths, since they vary in their relation to the fundamental Christian faith." - Unitatis Redintegratio
"The Roman Pontiff and the bishops, in view of their office and the importance of the matter, by fitting means diligently strive to inquire properly into that revelation and to give apt expression to its contents; but a new public revelation they do not accept as pertaining to the divine deposit of faith." - Lumen Gentium, 25
"Let no Christian therefore, whether philosopher or theologian, embrace eagerly and lightly whatever novelty happens to be thought up from day to day, but rather let him weigh it with painstaking care and a balanced judgment, lest he lose or corrupt the truth he already has, with grave danger and damage to his faith." - Humani Generis
Note: Each quote is linked to the full document.
"Everything passes, only God remains. Indeed, kingdoms, peoples, cultures, nations, ideologies, powers have passed, but the Church, founded on Christ, notwithstanding the many storms and our many sins, remains ever faithful to the deposit of faith shown in service; for the Church does not belong to Popes, bishops, priests, nor the lay faithful; the Church in every moment belongs solely to Christ." - Pope Francis (emphasis added)
"It is the mission of the Magisterium to affirm the definitive character of the Covenant established by God through Christ with His People in a way which is consistent with the 'eschatological' nature of the event of Jesus Christ. It must protect God's People from the danger of deviations and confusion, guaranteeing them the objective possibility of professing the authentic faith free from error, at all times and in diverse situations. It follows that the sense and the weight of the Magisterium's authority are only intelligible in relation to the truth of Christian doctrine and the preaching of the true Word." - Donum Veritatis
"When comparing doctrines with one another, they should remember that in Catholic doctrine there exists a 'hierarchy' of truths, since they vary in their relation to the fundamental Christian faith." - Unitatis Redintegratio
"The Roman Pontiff and the bishops, in view of their office and the importance of the matter, by fitting means diligently strive to inquire properly into that revelation and to give apt expression to its contents; but a new public revelation they do not accept as pertaining to the divine deposit of faith." - Lumen Gentium, 25
"Let no Christian therefore, whether philosopher or theologian, embrace eagerly and lightly whatever novelty happens to be thought up from day to day, but rather let him weigh it with painstaking care and a balanced judgment, lest he lose or corrupt the truth he already has, with grave danger and damage to his faith." - Humani Generis
Note: Each quote is linked to the full document.
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From the comment you highlighted, it seems that the Pope condemns two categories of extremists:
1) The "problem, what problem? Don't interrupt me from my fracking and drilling!" people.
2) The ZPG people who believe that population growth is the problem.
No free passes for either of these groups--and the first group, composed of greedy politicians, multi-national corporations, and the people who believe them--seems much more powerful than the second.
He believes there is room for discussion and disagreement within these parameters:
1) technology, clean energy, and water desalination projects won't do it all--there needs to be a more equitable distribution of the world's resources, and that means that the "haves" must learn to modify their lifestyles.
2) denial of the problem is not allowed.
1) The "problem, what problem? Don't interrupt me from my fracking and drilling!" people.
2) The ZPG people who believe that population growth is the problem.
No free passes for either of these groups--and the first group, composed of greedy politicians, multi-national corporations, and the people who believe them--seems much more powerful than the second.
He believes there is room for discussion and disagreement within these parameters:
1) technology, clean energy, and water desalination projects won't do it all--there needs to be a more equitable distribution of the world's resources, and that means that the "haves" must learn to modify their lifestyles.
2) denial of the problem is not allowed.
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As it says in the encyclical, we need to respect divergent views on climate change and not go to extremes.
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A call to recycle.
"22. These problems are closely linked to a throwaway culture which affects the excluded just as it quickly reduces things to rubbish. To cite one example, most of the paper we produce is thrown away and not recycled. It is hard for us to accept that the way natural ecosystems work is exemplary: plants synthesize nutrients which feed herbivores; these in turn become food for carnivores, which produce significant quantities of organic waste which give rise to new generations of plants. But our industrial system, at the end of its cycle of production and consumption, has not developed the capacity to absorb and reuse waste and by-products. We have not yet managed to adopt a circular model of production capable of preserving resources for present and future generations, while limiting as much as possible the use of non-renewable resources, moderating their consumption, maximizing their efficient use, reusing and recycling them. A serious consideration of this issue would be one way of counteracting the throwaway culture which affects the entire planet, but it must be said that only limited progress has been made in this regard." - Laudato si'
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I suppose he could accept climate change deniers (although he would never agree with them) so long as the climate deniers agreed that overconsumption in the west and unequal distribution of the world's resources is a problem.
Only thing is, I've never met a climate change denier who thinks his overconsumption and unequal distribution of the world's resources is a problem--as a matter of fact, politically, most work hard to make distribution of the world's resources even more unequal.
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Does calling people "climate change deniers" show respect for divergent views on climate change?
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Fish and Bread
Dona nobis pacem
Every time I read a thread like this from a conservative about Pope Francis' global climate change encyclical, I am reminded of the old expression: "De Nile isn't just a river in Egypt". People can play with words all they want, but the Pope said, in an encyclical, no less, that global climate change is real, man-made, and that those in power need to take "drastic" policy measures to fight it. That's the bottom line.
Those who tried to water down what the Pope said or dismiss it are doing the same thing such people have spent the last few decades criticizing progressives for doing. The line to the cafeteria is getting pretty long, it appears.
Those who tried to water down what the Pope said or dismiss it are doing the same thing such people have spent the last few decades criticizing progressives for doing. The line to the cafeteria is getting pretty long, it appears.
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Genersis
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Why is it important to you that the encyclical "did not settle scientific questions"?
Of course it didn't.
Though it does seem pretty overt on the importance of take action to protect the environment, from the excerpts I've seen. Does that include Climate Change? Is that what the issue is?
Of course it didn't.
Though it does seem pretty overt on the importance of take action to protect the environment, from the excerpts I've seen. Does that include Climate Change? Is that what the issue is?
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MikeK
Traditionalist Catholic
Skeptics are those who are uncertain, and would no doubt lean toward taking the environmentally safer (read: conservative) option of reducing those emissions that might be causing climate change. Deniers are people who think they have enough facts to conclude that men are not causing climate change and that we should not expend efforts to combat it, as it doesn't exist.
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LWU, I look at the term "climate change denier" as being a neutral term. It accurately defines people who believe that man-made climate change doesn't exist.
While it is true that many people disagree with that position, and would even use uncomplimentary adjectives to describe climate change deniers, unless those adjectives are added, it's a neutral term.
While it is true that many people disagree with that position, and would even use uncomplimentary adjectives to describe climate change deniers, unless those adjectives are added, it's a neutral term.
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Then why do I always get a hostile reaction from the folks who are strong believers in Global Warming whenever I point out the disclaimer statement on Global Warming that's in the encyclical?
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Genersis
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What about the disclaimer you shared?
What do you think it is saying?
Now I haven't read the encyclical, so I'm going to assume that you are right in speaking about this as if it applies specifically to Global Warming.
It seems to me the general gist is not to be apathetic about the issue by assuming technology will eventually make Global Warming a non issue, and not to resort to extreme measures like population control; in addition to treating those who do not accept GW or even a divergent view on how to tackle it respectfully.
Also I think it should be noted that this call for respect is followed immediately by reaffirming the need to take action.
I can't really comment on the "hostile"-ness of other posters, for hostility can be subjective, and also because in all honesty I often don't read Fantine and F&B's posts.
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