Discussion The WONDERFUL gift and mystery of Tongues ... a spiritual language

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Biblicist

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preposterous? really thats a strong word .. does your strong worded claim align with the scripture?
let me give it to you in the amplified ..

"The Holy Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness (inability to produce results): for we don't even know what we should pray for, nor how we should pray. But the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance. And the Father Who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers in harmony with God's own will." (AMP/NLT)
You know what, it must be wonderful to be a cessationist as they appear to have the ability to pray perfect prayers where they're able to pray perfectly in line with the Fathers heart. Here we are, we poor wretched souls, in that as a result of our acknowledged weaknesses and human fraility, that we are compelled to ask the Holy Spirit to intercede on our behalf with words that no man can utter.
 
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You know what, it must be wonderful to be a cessationist as they appear to have the ability to pray perfect prayers where they're able to pray perfectly in line with the Fathers heart. Here we are, we poor wretched souls, in that as a result of our acknowledged weaknesses and human fraility, that we are compelled to ask the Holy Spirit to intercede on our behalf with words that no man can utter.
I just love your wit! :clap: Refreshing.

I have been listening to the ministry of Graham Cooke. He talks about praying with God instead of to him. He proposes that when we feel the need to pray about specific issues, that we ask Him what He thinks about it, and then wait for Him to tell us either through scripture or that still small voice, and then when we pray, we are praying along with Him with the both of you agreeing together about it, Doesn't it say that when two agree on a thing it shall be done for them? What if we get into a fellowship with God when we and God are agreeing together? Wouldn't that almost guarantee the result? Some have suggested that praying in tongues is praying with God and in agreement with Him. I like that. This is why those who pray in tongues frequently seem to have more power in their ministries. Funny that...
 
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Biblicist

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I have been listening to the ministry of Graham Cooke. He talks about praying with God instead of to him. He proposes that when we feel the need to pray about specific issues, that we ask Him what He thinks about it, and then wait for Him to tell us either through scripture or that still small voice, and then when we pray, we are praying along with Him with the both of you agreeing together about it, Doesn't it say that when two agree on a thing it shall be done for them? What if we get into a fellowship with God when we and God are agreeing together? Wouldn't that almost guarantee the result? Some have suggested that praying in tongues is praying with God and in agreement with Him. I like that. This is why those who pray in tongues frequently seem to have more power in their ministries. Funny that...
This would probably be a flow on from your earlier comment a couple of days back where you (or Cooke?) mentioned that when we pray in the Spirit (tongues) that this can help to increase our faith as we at least know that the Spirit is interceding on our behalf in accordance with the will of God.

We often speak of the 'still small voice' where the Spirit witnesses to our hearts with regard to our petitions, so it makes perfect sense that we could also receive this 'witness' as a result of the intercessions that the Spirit is making. As to how this happens we will never know but if we expect to receive this witness as a result of our normal cognitive prayers, then we should certainly expect to receive this witness through the non-cognitive perfect prayers of the Spirit - thanks for these two insights.
 
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Alithis

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I just love your wit! :clap: Refreshing.

I have been listening to the ministry of Graham Cooke. He talks about praying with God instead of to him. He proposes that when we feel the need to pray about specific issues, that we ask Him what He thinks about it, and then wait for Him to tell us either through scripture or that still small voice, and then when we pray, we are praying along with Him with the both of you agreeing together about it, Doesn't it say that when two agree on a thing it shall be done for them? What if we get into a fellowship with God when we and God are agreeing together? Wouldn't that almost guarantee the result? Some have suggested that praying in tongues is praying with God and in agreement with Him. I like that. This is why those who pray in tongues frequently seem to have more power in their ministries. Funny that...
for some reason i have always since i was first baptised in the holy Spirit .. perceived intercessory prayer along that vein. -that is to say .. the cry of the fathers heart by the holy spirit into me and then out from me unto the father .. -it was always the impression i got the first day i fell to my knees in deep groanings under the weight of the glory of god .
i had no problem with it because , if we are to pray the perfect will of god then it must originate from god to be HIS perfect will. it cannot originate in us (in respect to praying his will). Our own cry of the heart originates from us .. but what the lord wills to do about it .. originates in him.
 
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Righttruth

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Paul never said that. He said that he spoke in tongues more than anyone he knew. Does that sound like avoidance to you??????? Come on!!! I could be more explicit in my comments about what you wrote, but I would be violating the flaming rule!!! But imagine that I am jumping up and own, banging my desk and the walls and kicking the cat, and you will get the impression of my reaction! :ebil::ebil::ebil: Oh, for Your sake Lord, open this guy's eyes!!! I'm off to have afternoon tea, and only valium and chocolate is going to calm me down now!

But he never spoke an unknown tongue in a church. It is not my business to question what you are doing to my remarks privately! I hope chocolate helped you to regain composure!
 
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jiminpa

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I have been desiring the prayer language for these past couple weeks and have asked God for it and believe that it was given to, but still no prayer language.
We are usually our own worst enemy in that, literally. The mind doesn't like to do what it doesn't understand, and then we have an enemy who loves to lie to us and tell us we are wrong in just opening our mouths and let words we are not forming come out, and the mind loves to agree. Speaking in tongues is a big leap of faith. I encourage you to get alone in prayer and then just trust God for what comes next and ask Him again, and then just start speaking out. Don't worry about the results, don't engage the brain, just speak. When Paul says that the mind is unfruitful he isn't exaggerating. 30 years later and my intellect still doesn't like it.
 
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Boidae

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We are usually our own worst enemy in that, literally. The mind doesn't like to do what it doesn't understand, and then we have an enemy who loves to lie to us and tell us we are wrong in just opening our mouths and let words we are not forming come out, and the mind loves to agree. Speaking in tongues is a big leap of faith. I encourage you to get alone in prayer and then just trust God for what comes next and ask Him again, and then just start speaking out. Don't worry about the results, don't engage the brain, just speak. When Paul says that the mind is unfruitful he isn't exaggerating. 30 years later and my intellect still doesn't like it.

What you have recommended I do, I have been doing.
 
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ron4shua

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And who said God doesn't work miracles today!
Where did you read that in my post , my brother ? I'd be the first to say " miracles " AND
everything recorded in Acts happens today , and will continue into the long distant future .

As for " waste waist " , I thought I had hit spell check . Sorry if it caused you dismay , sorry .
Every once in a while I need a stiff double dose of humility , thank you .

Hallelu-YAH .
 
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Righttruth

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You started off so well where I even had high hopes, but then you went off onto a cessationist tangent which had no bearing with what Paul said...how annoying for you!

Now if you were to have said that Paul was saying to not only 'avoid' but to forbid outright the practice of uninterpreted tongues within the congregational setting, then you would have been right on the mark.

Yes, Paul was very particular of speaking in unknown tongue with interpretation in a congregation. Nevertheless, in general, he asked to desire better gifts other than speaking in unknown tongue, private or public. Finally, he speaks of love which happens to be the fruit of the Spirit.
 
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Righttruth

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preposterous? really thats a strong word .. does your strong worded claim align with the scripture?
let me give it to you in the amplified ..

"The Holy Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness (inability to produce results): for we don't even know what we should pray for, nor how we should pray. But the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance. And the Father Who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers in harmony with God's own will." (AMP/NLT)

Here, "unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance" refers to the person praying.
 
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Righttruth

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well you already know there are more then two :)
but are you seeking to form an intellectual concept of it all ? If so you have completely missed the point .. it cannot be comprehended by the carnal intellectual mind .

Truth has be to found in the Bible. It is not the question of building castles in the air.
 
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Righttruth

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I think he meant what he said .. not what you want him to have meant .

he meant that in a setting of a public meeting of a congregation, tongues is not the most beneficial gift to those around the speaker, because they cannot understand what is being said. in no way did he mean it is any less or more ..they are all of the Holy Spirit .
but this thread has never been about that setting ..its about the wonderful gift of tongues ..which ..you do not seem to realise we sing in and pray in and commune with God .is private far far more then we do in public (excluding prayer meetings which are not meant to be a public setting .

Paul never said the gift of tongue is wonderful!
 
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ron4shua

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Six munce ago I couldn't spel thearlogian but now I are one!

Brother Oscarr , please accept my sincere apology for any misgivings you may have gleaned from
my incorrectly spelled post . Highest regards and salutations , your brother in Messiah , ron .

http://biblehub.com/isr/isaiah/28.htm

5In that day יהוה of hosts is for a crown of splendour and a head-dress of comeliness to the remnant of His people,

6and a spirit of right-ruling to him who sits in right-ruling, and strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate.

7And these too have gone astray through wine, and through strong drink wandered about. Priest and prophet have gone astray through strong drink, they are swallowed up by wine, they wander about through strong drink, they go astray in vision, they stumble in right-ruling.

8For all tables shall be covered with vomit, no place without filth.

9Whom would He teach knowledge? And whom would He make to understand the message? Those weaned from milk, those taken from the breasts!

10For it is: command upon command, command upon command, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little.

11For with a jabbering lip and a foreign tongue He speaks to this people,

12to whom He said, “This is the rest, give rest to the weary,” and, “This is the refreshing.” But they would not hear.

13But the Word of יהוה was to them, “Command upon command, command upon command, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little,” so that they go and shall stumble backward, and be broken and snared and taken captive.

14Therefore hear the Word of יהוה, you men of scorn, who rule this people who are in Yerushalayim,

15because you have said, “We have made a covenant with death, and with the grave we have effected a vision. When the overflowing scourge passes through, it does not come to us, for we have made lying our refuge, and under falsehood we have hidden ourselves.”

16Therefore thus said the Master יהוה, “See, I am laying in Tsiyon a stone for a foundation, a tried stone, a precious corner-stone, a settled foundation. He who trusts shall not hasten away.

dedicated men from every nation under the heaven.


6And when this sound came to be, the crowd came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.

7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying to each other, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans?
13And others mocking said, “They have been filled with sweet wine.

14But Kĕpha, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and said to them, “Men of Yehuḏah and all those dwelling in Yerushalayim, let this be known to you, and listen closely to my words.

15“For these men are not drunk, as you imagine, since it is only the third hour of the day.

16“But this is what was spoken by the prophet Yo’ĕl:

28“And after this it shall be that I pour out My Spirit on all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men dream dreams, your young men see visions.

29“And also on the male servants and on the female servants I shall pour out My Spirit in those days.

30“And I shall give signs in the heavens and upon the earth: blood and fire and columns of smoke,

31the sun is turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of יהוה.

32And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of יהוה shall be delivereda. For on Mount Tsiyon and in Yerushalayim there shall be an escapeb as יהוה has said, and among the survivors whom יהוה calls.

http://biblehub.com/isr/isaiah/4.htm

1And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, “We shall eat our own food and wear our own clothes; only let us be called by your name, to take away our reproach.

2In והthat day the Branch ofהYAY shall be splendid and esteemed. And the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for the escaped onesa of Yisra’ĕl.

3And it shall be that he who is left in Tsiyon and he who remains in Yerushalayim is called set-apart, everyone who is written among the living in Yerushalayim.

4When יהוה has washed away the filth of the daughters of Tsiyon, and rinsed away the blood of Yerushalayim from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning,

5then יהוה shall create above every dwelling place of Mount Tsiyon, and above her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night, for over all the esteem shall be a covering,

6and a booth for shade in the daytime from the heat, for a place of refuge, and for a shelter from storm and rain.

http://biblehub.com/isr/obadiah/1.htm

8“In that day,” declares יהוה, “I shall destroy the wise men from Eḏom, and discernment from the mountains of Ěsaw!

9“And your mighty men shall be discouraged, O Tĕman, so that everyone from the mountains of Ěsaw is cut off by slaughter.

10“Because of your violence against your brother Ya‛aqoḇ, let shame cover you. And you shall be cut off forever.

11“In the day that you stood on the other side, in the day that strangers took captive his wealth, when foreigners entered his gates and cast lots for Yerushalayim, you also were like one of them!

12“And you should not have looked on your brother’s day in the day of his estrangement, nor rejoiced over the children of Yehuḏah in the day of their destruction, nor made your mouth great in the day of distress,

13nor have entered the gate of My people in the day of their calamity, nor looked down on their evil in the day of their calamity, nor have seized their wealth in the day of their calamity,

14nor have stood at the parting of the way to cut off his fugitives, nor handed over his survivors in the day of distress.

15“For the day of יהוה is near upon all the gentiles. As you have done, it shall be done to you, your reward shall come back on your own head.

16For as you have drunk on my set-apart mountain, so do all the gentiles drink continually. And they shall drink and shall swallow, and they shall be as though they had never been.

17“But on Mount Tsiyon there shall be an escapea, and they shall be set-apart. And the house of Ya‛aqoḇ shall possess their possessions.

18“And the house of Ya‛aqoḇ shall be a fire, and the house of Yosĕph a flame, but the house of Ěsaw for stubble. And they shall burn among them and they shall consume them, so that no survivor is left of the house of Ěsaw.” For יהוה has spoken.

19And they shall possess the South with the mountains of Ěsaw, and low country with the Philistines. And they shall possess the fields of Ephrayim and the fields of Shomeron, and Binyamin with Gil‛aḏ,

20and the exiles of this host of the children of Yisra’ĕl possess that of the Kena‛anites as far as Tsarephath, and the exiles of Yerushalayim who are in Sepharaḏ possess the cities of the South.

21And saviours shall come to Mount Tsiyon to judge the mountains of Ěsaw. And the reign shall belong to יהוהa.

Hallelu-YAH .

43“To this One all the prophets bear witness, that through His Name, everyone believing in Him does receive forgiveness of sins.”

44While Kĕpha was still speaking these words, the Set-apart Spirit fell upon all those hearing the word.

45And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Kĕpha, because the gift of the Set-apart Spirit had been poured out on the gentiles also,

46for they were hearing them speaking with tongues and extolling Elohim. Then Kĕpha answered,

47“Is anyone able to forbid water, that these should not be immersed who have received the Set-apart Spirit – even as also we?”

48And he commanded them to be immersed in the Name of יהושע Messiah.

( ... speaking with tongues and extrolling Elohim . )

extolling
  1. praise enthusiastically.
Tongues yet they knew it was Praise ?
 
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But he never spoke an unknown tongue in a church. It is not my business to question what you are doing to my remarks privately! I hope chocolate helped you to regain composure!
Yep, it did, and the cat kept well out of my way!! ^_^^_^^_^

You are dead right. He never spoke in tongues publicly and he taught against public tongues unless they were interpreted. But privately, he spoke in tongues more than all the rest of them put together! So, as much as he opposed public tongues, he enthusiastically endorsed private tongues.
 
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I have been desiring the prayer language for these past couple weeks and have asked God for it and believe that it was given to, but still no prayer language.
Email me on paul90@slingshot.co.nz and I will send you my book "Tongues Made Easy". This has been very successful in bringing people through to being able to speak in tongues. I recently sent 20 copies to a pastor in Kenya and he reported a revival!
 
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ron4shua

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Mount Tsiyon is The place where The Hebrew Temple was .

When יהוה has washed away the filth of the daughters of Tsiyon, and rinsed away the blood of
Yerushalayim from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning,then יהוה shall create above every dwelling place of Mount Tsiyon, and above her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night, for over all the esteem shall be a covering,and a booth for shade in the daytime from the heat, for a place of refuge, and for a shelter from storm and rain.

http://www.britannica.com/place/Zion-hill-Jerusalem

" The etymology and meaning of the name are obscure. It appears to be a pre-Israelite Canaanite name of the hill upon which Jerusalem was built; the name “mountain of Zion” is common. In biblical usage, however, “Mount Zion” often means the city rather than the hill itself. Zion appears in the Old Testament 152 times as a title of Jerusalem; over half of these occurrences appear in two books, the Book of Isaiah (46 times) and that of Psalms (38 times). It appears seven times in the New Testament and five times in quotations from the Old Testament. "

152 witnesses in Scripture !

Hallelu-YAH .
 
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Brother Oscarr , please accept my sincere apology for any misgivings you may have gleaned from
my incorrectly spelled post . Highest regards and salutations , your brother in Messiah , ron .

Don't worry about it. I was just stirring the pot - being cheeky. I believe in healing through humour!
 
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Alithis

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But he never spoke an unknown tongue in a church. It is not my business to question what you are doing to my remarks privately! I hope chocolate helped you to regain composure!
complete and utter assumption .. we were not there to know that .. lets keep it honest
 
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