Bobby Jindal proposes doing away with Supreme Court

Root of Jesse said:

Catholics who own pharmacies control those pharmacies, no? And Catholic hospitals with pharmacies, controlled by Catholics, no?
As someone pointed out, you can go to the 7-Eleven, though. Never fear.

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There are no Christians working at 7-Eleven?

Root of Jesse said:

Wrong. Jesus was Mary's child, even when he was nailed to the cross. My children will always be my children. I guess you don't have contact with yours?

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Now you are becoming offensive. You didn't even read what I said. I said they are no longer children. A child is defined as one between the infancy and youth. To leave home, the children must necessarily become adults. However, my children will always be my children, even as adults. There is a difference.

However, when a child becomes an adult and leaves home, they are no longer under parental guardianship or control. This leaves parents without children to raise, which means that they had better have a relationship outside of parenting, or they are lost. I've seen it happen. That's why children shouldn't be the idols of the parents and the parents should maintain their separateness as a couple.

I guess you don't have that kind of relationship with your wife.

lasthero said:

Really? I can't say I've ever heard about a Christian complaining about having to sell anyone a condom. If there is tons of outcry, you should be able to find plenty of examples.

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Maybe they need to go and find a different job.

Also, do these same people who complain about baking cakes and such for gay weddings, are they refusing service to people on their second and third marriages, too?

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No, it's fine because they "don't know" that those people are adulterers. Therefore, no sin. It's very handy that "I didn't know" clause.

Root of Jesse said:

Yes, there are, and many are not Catholic.
And there is tons of outcry, given the Catholic position on artificial birth control.

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Couple points.

Most states have laws requiring pharmacies to fill all legit prescriptions from doctors. For example birth control can be prescribed for reasons other than birth control, as it is used to treat hormonal problems in some women. Now, I do believe, pharmacies directly affiliated with catholic hospitals, do have an exemption in this regard.

If the owner of a pharmacy does not want to stock condoms, that is their call, but if they are not affiliated with a catholic institution, they must fill prescriptions from a doctor, unless they reside in a state that does not have these laws.

Root of Jesse said:

Catholics who own pharmacies control those pharmacies, no? And Catholic hospitals with pharmacies, controlled by Catholics, no?
As someone pointed out, you can go to the 7-Eleven, though. Never fear.

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I'm past the age to worry about contraceptives, so I'm not afraid.

lasthero said:

Where, though?

And why is this only a problem with homosexuals and cakes? I've never heard of Christians refusing to, say, sell condoms. if you're a Christian working at store with condoms, eventually you're going to sell one of them to someone who's going to use them for extra marital sex. Why isn't that a problem?

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It's a personal thing. IT would be a problem for me. In fact, if I wanted to work in a store, and I found out they provided some service that was offensive to me, I'd quit working there, or not even bother to apply. I do tend to shop places that hold my values dear. That doesn't mean I don't shop where condoms are sold, but if there's an alternative, I will.

Hetta said:

Maybe they need to go and find a different job.

No, it's fine because they "don't know" that those people are adulterers. Therefore, no sin. It's very handy that "I didn't know" clause.

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Ah, I see. Supporting sin is okay when you're dumb enough to believe that all the people you're serving are in their first marriage.

lasthero said:

Such as...

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http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27311596/...new-va-pharmacy-wont-sell-any-contraceptives/

Really? I can't say I've ever heard about a Christian complaining about having to sell anyone a condom. If there is tons of outcry, you should be able to find plenty of examples.

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See above. And listen closer. They don't make the news, much, but they're out there.

Also, do these same people who complain about baking cakes and such for gay weddings, are they refusing service to people on their second and third marriages, too?

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I think they should, personally. But I don't believe bakeries take resume's detailing their life history from people requesting wedding cakes. But if something was morally offensive to the baker, they should be allowed to refuse.

Root of Jesse said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27311596/...new-va-pharmacy-wont-sell-any-contraceptives/
See above. And listen closer. They don't make the news, much, but they're out there.

I think they should, personally. But I don't believe bakeries take resume's detailing their life history from people requesting wedding cakes. But if something was morally offensive to the baker, they should be allowed to refuse.

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You are saying then, the baker would be ok with supporting something they felt was offensive, as long as they didn't know about it?

lasthero said:

There are no Christians working at 7-Eleven?

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I don't know, I don't often go there. But to me, as a Catholic, it is, objectively. But I don't judge someone's heart because they work in a store. Sometimes people make choices based purely on financial reasons, rather than moral ones.

bhsmte said:

You are saying then, the baker would be ok with supporting something they felt was offensive, as long as they didn't know about it?

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Exactly. Ignorance is bliss.

Root of Jesse said:

Or Scenario E:
-Hi, I'd like to order a wedding cake, it's for a same sex wedding. I'd like it to be just like that beautiful 3-tier thing in your catalog, but I want two grooms on top.
-Sorry, putting two grooms on top is offensive to me, and I have a religious objection to it.

I wonder, in the scenario above, if the Christian thing to do would be to make the cake with no topper, and let the cake buyer do that part themselves?

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Scenario E is a similar scenario to wanting the baker to write 'yay same sex marriage' all over the cake. If the baker doesn't normally supply a cake topper with two grooms, then they are under no obligation to do so.

Hetta said:

Now you are becoming offensive. You didn't even read what I said. I said they are no longer children. A child is defined as one between the infancy and youth. To leave home, the children must necessarily become adults. However, my children will always be my children, even as adults. There is a difference.

However, when a child becomes an adult and leaves home, they are no longer under parental guardianship or control. This leaves parents without children to raise, which means that they had better have a relationship outside of parenting, or they are lost. I've seen it happen. That's why children shouldn't be the idols of the parents and the parents should maintain their separateness as a couple.

I guess you don't have that kind of relationship with your wife.

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A child is someone a woman gave birth to. They never cease to being children of the woman. You're talking about minority and majority, different issue.
My children, in their 40's, still come to us for advice, still come home to eat with us, still have a relationship with us. But they are still children, relationally.
I apologize for my last comment above. I see we have different ideas about family. I have quite a wonderful relationship with my wife. Thanks for asking.

See above. And listen closer. They don't make the news, much, but they're out there

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If they don't make the news, what is there to listen to?

I think they should, personally. But I don't believe bakeries take resume's detailing their life history from people requesting wedding cakes.

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If you work at a place like that for that long, I'd think it's safe to say that, eventually, one of your customers might mention the fact that it's not their first marriage. Even if that doesn't happen, you can't claim total ignorance - you have to know that, eventually, you're going to sell a cake to someone who's been divorced. Given how prevalent divorce is, it's unavoidable. By the same token, if you're a Christian who sells condoms, even if you're not a Catholic, you're going to eventually give one to someone who's single and will use it for extra marital sex, which is supporting sin.

But if something was morally offensive to the baker, they should be allowed to refuse.

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Where do you draw the line with this 'morally offensive' thing? Can anyone refuse service to any one for any reason, so long as they claim it goes against their morals? Do their morals have to even make sense?

bhsmte said:

Couple points.

Most states have laws requiring pharmacies to fill all legit prescriptions from doctors. For example birth control can be prescribed for reasons other than birth control, as it is used to treat hormonal problems in some women. Now, I do believe, pharmacies directly affiliated with catholic hospitals, do have an exemption in this regard.

If the owner of a pharmacy does not want to stock condoms, that is their call, but if they are not affiliated with a catholic institution, they must fill prescriptions from a doctor, unless they reside in a state that does not have these laws.

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I guess you didn't know that a Catholic pharmacy is permitted to sell birth control pills when they are not being prescribed for birth control?

Root of Jesse said:

A child is someone a woman gave birth to. They never cease to being children of the woman. You're talking about minority and majority, different issue.
My children, in their 40's, still come to us for advice, still come home to eat with us, still have a relationship with us. But they are still children, relationally.
I apologize for my last comment above. I see we have different ideas about family. I have quite a wonderful relationship with my wife. Thanks for asking.

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Why would they only be the children of the woman? Aren't they the father's children.

I have a relationship with my children also, but they aren't children any longer because they have passed the age at which they were technically known to be children, and they wouldn't appreciate being called that. They prefer to be known as adults, as men and women, not boys and girls.

Root of Jesse said:

I guess you didn't know that a Catholic pharmacy is permitted to sell birth control pills when they are not being prescribed for birth control?

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How do they determine the medical reason behind why birth control is prescribed?

bhsmte said:

You are saying then, the baker would be ok with supporting something they felt was offensive, as long as they didn't know about it?

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If there's no reason he should know about it, why not? It's really the baker's call, though, and it's not a judgement, it's a personal decision.

Root of Jesse said:

There is nothing universally best. But there is optimal. There is plenty of reason two men can't do as good a job as a man and a woman at raising a daughter. Women teach their children different things, men teach them different things. Men teach boys differently than women, too. It is always optimal to have both parents, the male and the female, involved in the rearing of children. Even dysfunctional parents. They teach children how not to be when they mature.

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Not true at all.

lasthero said:

If they don't make the news, what is there to listen to?

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Not mainstream news. But you can find it, if you want to look.

If you work at a place like that for that long, I'd think it's safe to say that, eventually, one of your customers might mention the fact that it's not their first marriage. Even if that doesn't happen, you can't claim total ignorance - you have to know that, eventually, you're going to sell a cake to someone who's been divorced. Given how prevalent divorce is, it's unavoidable. By the same token, if you're a Christian who sells condoms, even if you're not a Catholic, you're going to eventually give one to someone who's single and will use it for extra marital sex, which is supporting sin.

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But you have to know. If you don't know, you're not supporting it. For example, if I give a homeless guy $5 to go to McD's to buy food, and he uses it to buy drugs or alcohol, did I support his sin? No, I didn't.

Where do you draw the line with this 'morally offensive' thing? Can anyone refuse service to any one for any reason, so long as they claim it goes against their morals? Do their morals have to even make sense?

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Actually, no, they don't. Just like in religious practice, the US cannot stop Native American tribes from using drugs which are illegal to anyone else, when it comes to their religious rituals.