Discussion The WONDERFUL gift and mystery of Tongues ... a spiritual language

Righttruth · Jul 5, 2015

Alithis said:
some recent tests were done lat year on brain activity while speaking in tongues .. they were surprised, thinking that with all those words there would be increase ..but what they found is the speech center of the brain settled ..it went into a state of lower activity ..the person is not forming word or sound from conscience effort.there is no predetermination . it is nothing to do with "the imaginations of the carnal mind "

What is the use when mind is unfruitful as Paul declared?

1 Corinthians 14
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Biblicist · Jul 5, 2015

Ocar's query to Righttruth said:
I don't understand what you are saying when you say that praying in tongues guarantees The Holy Spirit.

[Righttruth's reply] I am not. It is Biblicist's view.

That’s pretty close to the mark but I’m not sure that we can say that it is a guarantee. Maybe I’m trying to split hairs on this but with the Day of Pentecost, the first outpouring of the Spirit on the Romans and with the Ephesian twelve, the only observable indicator that the Spirit had fallen upon the unregenerate was with their ability to speak in tongues.

Biblicist · Jul 5, 2015

Righttruth said:
When Paul recommended better gifts other than speaking in unknown tongue, he meant whether it was in private or public.

One of the best gifts God has blessed with humankind is understandable speech and art of articulation that differentiate men from beasts.

Hey, everyone can do that even if they are Born Again or not.

So when someone is sick, where Paul tells us in James 5:14 to go to the elders for prayer, are we to expect the elders to sing a rendition of "Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be)" or would he maybe prefer that some of the elders were operating within the Offices of healings, prophecy and knowledge - I know what my choice would be.

Biblicist · Jul 5, 2015

Righttruth said:
Gift when received becomes part of the receiver, and it is no longer anything to do with the giver. If you receive a knife as gift, it is your responsibility to use it beneficially. One cannot use to kill and hold the giver responsible for that action.

This is a misconception as Paul never mentions that the Holy Spirit gives anything to anyone; furthermore, Paul never even uses the term 'spiritual gift' which is a translation aid only that the various Bible translators have employed for many years, which in my opinion has been counterproductive.

Paul would never seperate any of the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit (1Cor 12:7-11) from the Holy Spirit as they are inseperable, where they are manifestations/outworkings of the very same Spirit of God who resides within us.

This also lays to rest the saying "The Giver and not the Gift" as both are one and the same. When someone desires to speak in tongues they are desiring more of the Holy Spirit as he is the one who prays through us to the Father. For those who desire to move in the Offices of healings, powers and prophecy, they are also desiring more of the Spirit as he is again the agency of these things; without the "Giver there is no Gift".

Alithis · Jul 5, 2015

Righttruth said:
???
ok the last sentence of your former post causes me to make an assumption .. you're not one who practices speaking in tongues as the Holy Spirit give utterance ..y/n?

and the part about personal gratification.. being edified in the holy Spirit is to be "built up" it is also a huge realm of intercession where by the holy Spirit many many things are prayed for for many many people ..things we cant possible know in the natural to pray about .things that essentially need to be prayed that the natural mind does not pray because it does not know the need to .
this even happens in the night watch ..in vision and dream ..you see all the gifts of the holy Spirit are OF the Holy Spirit they are not singular and unrelated the the other gifts.

tongues and words of knowledge ..tongues and healing and discernment of spirits and deliverance ..it's all entwined it is the SAME holy Spirit at work in us working to bring about the perfect will of God.

don't deny his work.
when a person uses the term "imagination" in a sentence about tongues.it causes me great doubt that they have ever experienced the gift ..( pray im wrong )

Gift when received becomes part of the receiver, and it is no longer anything to do with the giver. If you receive a knife as gift, it is your responsibility to use it beneficially. One cannot use to kill and hold the giver responsible for that action.

Click to expand...

have you received that gift to speak experientially or are you speaking intellectual theories ?

Alithis · Jul 5, 2015

Righttruth said:
What is the use when mind is unfruitful as Paul declared?

1 Corinthians 14
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

whats the use you ask ..?... ..i guess you're not reading posts very thoroughly .
it is a good thing that the mind (carnal intellect ) is unfruitful for then the Spiritual is very fruitful .. for we are called to walk in the Spirit and not after the flesh .the flesh and its carnal reasoning is temporal and does not comprehend the things of the Spirit .
to even reason the topic from that mindset fall short of comprehending it .

its all partaken of by faith .

Alithis · Jul 5, 2015

a key word in the OP is .. spiritual .. a spiritual language .. NOT a carnal intellectual language .. this wonderful gift is removed from by eternal degrees from the intellectual reasonings of man . by this gift one speaks mysteries in th spirits .. mysteries to God? NO mysteries to us ,but fully known to god who speaks through the prayer by the power of the Holy Ghost .all he desires is a willing heart .

Alithis · Jul 6, 2015

Biblicist2 said:
Hey, everyone can do that even if they are Born Again or not.

So when someone is sick, where Paul tells us in James 5:14 to go to the elders for prayer, are we to expect the elders to sing a rendition of "Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be)" or would he maybe prefer that some of the elders were operating within the Offices of healings, prophecy and knowledge - I know what my choice would be.

yes . if the ability to communicate by natural means of intellect is so powerful why did he cause them to speak in other tongues ..from that day to this ,why did he not gift them with a bachelor's degree in communication ? .. because it is a gift not of THIS world and a sign to the UNbeliever and a means by which to commune with himself beyond the carnal reasonings of the flesh and so unhindered by the corruption of the flesh.

Alithis · Jul 6, 2015

REPEATED: does the gift of tongues make the speaker some greater degree of christian .. ABSOLUTELY NOT.. the gift is given ..a GIFT ,but it does not excuse the receiver from accountability . there are some who may speak in tongues for 40 years and be as spiritually immature in their lives as the day they were when they received it and be as undisciplined as they ever were and even go astray ,,, the gift is given without repentance ..people completely backslidden can still speak in tongues ..but our life will not be judged as if that is some point of merit . if it were a point of merit it would not be "a gift" .
as jill austin (rip) often said - "the anointing of the Holy Ghost is not an automatic validation of everything a person does "

Righttruth · Jul 6, 2015

Biblicist2 said:
That’s pretty close to the mark but I’m not sure that we can say that it is a guarantee. Maybe I’m trying to split hairs on this but with the Day of Pentecost, the first outpouring of the Spirit on the Romans and with the Ephesian twelve, the only observable indicator that the Spirit had fallen upon the unregenerate was with their ability to speak in tongues.

Yes, but that is speaking in known foreign language that did not require an interpreter for the benefit of the people present.

Righttruth · Jul 6, 2015

Biblicist2 said:
Hey, everyone can do that even if they are Born Again or not.

So when someone is sick, where Paul tells us in James 5:14 to go to the elders for prayer, are we to expect the elders to sing a rendition of "Que Sera, Sera (Whatever Will Be, Will Be)" or would he maybe prefer that some of the elders were operating within the Offices of healings, prophecy and knowledge - I know what my choice would be.

Yes, we do have choices. However, the best thing is 'not our will, but His will be done'! They may sing and pray, what not; that may become immaterial.

Biblicist · Jul 6, 2015

Righttruth said:
Yes, but that is speaking in known foreign language that did not require an interpreter for the benefit of the people present.

That only applied to the Day of Pentecost where there is no mention that when the Centurion, his family and friends along with the Ephesians spoke tongues in another language; if this had of occurred then Paul certainly would have let us know. Therefore we are left with the normal operation of tongues which is in a non-communicative form of utterance.

Winepress777 · Jul 6, 2015

The thing I love about tongues is that every man with ears to hear can understand me when I speak of Christ, and I can understand every man when they speak of Christ

Righttruth · Jul 6, 2015

Biblicist2 said:
This is a misconception as Paul never mentions that the Holy Spirit gives anything to anyone; furthermore, Paul never even uses the term 'spiritual gift' which is a translation aid only that the various Bible translators have employed for many years, which in my opinion has been counterproductive.

It is there in the Greek text.

Paul would never seperate any of the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit (1Cor 12:7-11) from the Holy Spirit as they are inseperable, where they are manifestations/outworkings of the very same Spirit of God who resides within us.

Why Paul never mentioned the last two-- that he wanted us not to prefer-- in other epistles where he mentioned the gifts?

This also lays to rest the saying "The Giver and not the Gift" as both are one and the same. When someone desires to speak in tongues they are desiring more of the Holy Spirit as he is the one who prays through us to the Father. For those who desire to move in the Offices of healings, powers and prophecy, they are also desiring more of the Spirit as he is again the agency of these things;

Giver cannot be equal to a gift. A subjective is not the same as the objective thing. It is our responsibility and humility to pray to God. Why should the Holy Spirit pray for us? He can only assist in understanding our stammering or groans conveyed to God.

without the "Giver there is no Gift".

Agreed. Nevertheless, the Giver is not equal to a gift.

Biblicist · Jul 6, 2015

Righttruth said:
Yes, we do have choices. However, the best thing is 'not our will, but His will be done'! They may sing and pray, what not; that may become immaterial.

As the Lord's will is undoubtedly that each and every congregation will establish the 8 Congregational Offices (1Cor 12:28) where healings is one of those Offices, then we know what his will is. If we choose not to establish these Offices within our congregations then we are standing square against the Lords will.

Biblicist · Jul 6, 2015

Righttruth said:
It is there in the Greek text.

Where exactly would that be?

As your other points either stand or fall on this point then I will wait for a reply.

Righttruth · Jul 6, 2015

Alithis said:
have you received that gift to speak experientially or are you speaking intellectual theories ?

Paul advised not to prefer that 2000 years back. Why should I now?

Righttruth · Jul 6, 2015

Alithis said:
whats the use you ask ..?... ..i guess you're not reading posts very thoroughly .
it is a good thing that the mind (carnal intellect ) is unfruitful for then the Spiritual is very fruitful .. for we are called to walk in the Spirit and not after the flesh .the flesh and its carnal reasoning is temporal and does not comprehend the things of the Spirit .
to even reason the topic from that mindset fall short of comprehending it .

its all partaken of by faith .

No one advocated blind faith. We need to search other sources to understand any concept.

Biblicist · Jul 6, 2015

Winepress777 said:
The thing I love about tongues is that every man with ears to hear can understand me when I speak of Christ, and I can understand every man when they speak of Christ

1 Cor 14:2

For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

In light of this passage you might want to qualify your post.

Righttruth · Jul 6, 2015

Alithis said:
REPEATED: does the gift of tongues make the speaker some greater degree of christian .. ABSOLUTELY NOT.. the gift is given ..a GIFT ,but it does not excuse the receiver from accountability . there are some who may speak in tongues for 40 years and be as spiritually immature in their lives as the day they were when they received it and be as undisciplined as they ever were and even go astray ,,, the gift is given without repentance ..people completely backslidden can still speak in tongues ..but our life will not be judged as if that is some point of merit . if it were a point of merit it would not be "a gift" .
as jill austin (rip) often said - "the anointing of the Holy Ghost is not an automatic validation of everything a person does "

How many will admit this?

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