Christian Naturism II

paleodoxy

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The other thread was sort of dying out, and I've just gotten involved, so I wanted to paste my original note and add it here for fresh discussion.

ANY THOUGHTS???

---------------

Hello all,

I'd like to contribute to this topic by saying that I "discovered" (biblical) naturism more recently on the Internet quite by accident, and that I have since learned (by God's grace) not to associate mere nakedness (whether private or social) with lust, concupiscense, sexual desire, or any such thing. What's more, I have tried it for myself during casual times (in the house, backyard, in-laws' pool) and couldn't believe how exhilirating it was, or how fun and liberating it could be. (BTW, my wife and I are from south central Texas, ages 24 and 26, respectively.)

I agree with the poster who said that nudity in social situations can facilitate immodest behavior; however, I believe this is a function of the attitudes and motivations we have for being socially nude in the first place. In short, lust is not triggered by the mere sight of a naked body, but rather by one's attitude towards nudity.

Here in America, an added negative factor is that we are culturally conditioned to react in certain ways to the sight of "private parts" or extra-exposed skin. When you get to pondering it, all this sort of conditioning accomplishes is the perpetuation and expansion of the inappropriate content market, "sexy" Victoria Secret promos and ads, the clothing industry's obsession with creating new and seductive looking outfits that morbidly focus in on and enhance those areas of the body we've been conditioned to avoid, and the entertainment industry's infatuation with sexual romance and immorality in the movies. By perpetuating the "mystery" of the body, those who pull the cultural strings succeed in enhancing our obsession with the hidden, invisible, and tantalizingly inconspicuous.

Unfortunately, we've been trained that people get naked only to have sex or "have a good time"...and expected to assume that there are no other good reasons to be naked. Well, I believe there are several: relaxation, comfort, fun (skinny-dipping is a favorite of mine), hygienic or therapeutic nudity, and the sheer exhilirating effect of bathing in the sun's warmth or catching a gentle breeze.

Let's not forget, as well, the medical necessity for nakedness in various situations, or the very natural acts of breastfeeding and child bearing. This point in particular profoundly hit home and got my wife and I thinking more seriously about nakedness from a scriptural point of view, as sessions with our certified midwife involved watching videos of fully naked women having natural water births, and of women (mostly from Europe) breastfeeding topless in public. Funny thing: It was so NATURAL, and just seemed...right.

Naturism has helped me immensely in the exercise of my faith in the following two ways:

First, it has helped to shake off more easily the pervasive commercial appeal of seduction that lurks silently around every other corner to grab my attention -- at the mall, on billboards, in commercials...whatever. I am able to control my thoughts far more effectively simply because I can now look at a naked person and appreciate the natural beauty of God's image in man without my mind wandering into the gutter even for the tiniest split second. I can also appreciate the artistic gifts of God's image bearers through the painting, drawing or photographing of nude figures (provided the art glorifies, exalts and honors God's image).

Second, and related to the first, reconditioning and renewing my mind about nudity using the Bible has impressed upon me the inherent GOODNESS of everything God has created, and that it was wrong and unnatural for Adam and Eve to have reacted the way they did to their own nakedness. Take a look at Heb.5:13-14, in fact. Here, we're taught that having knowledge of good and evil is GOOD, as it leads to spiritual maturity. This tells me that Adam and Eve grasped for power and knowledge prematurely (before fulfilling their probation in obedience to God's commands). In fact, in Solomon's famous prayer, he asks God for "knowledge of good and evil", and God grants his request! This tells me that Adam and Eve were immature children at the time they ate of the fruit, and thus were not ready to appropriate or handle that knowledge. They were not yet ready to rule or judge mankind.

As a result, God grants them animal skins. He did not "command" clothes, but accommodated His children in the Garden, until such time as they matured in their knowledge of the world and their own bodies. The skins also functioned as sacramental symbols of God's atonement for their sin. (Now our sacramental covering is baptism; women have an added covering: their long hair, according to I Cor.11.) Third, they naturally needed protection from the cursed environment, which brought with it pain -- "thorns and thistles" and adverse meteorological conditions (e.g., extreme cold and heat).

Basically, I think that clothes have five (at least) needful and legitimate functions: (1) to "protect" us from the environment, (2) to beautify, decorate, or enhance our appeal, (3) to distinguish those in their various occupations and labors (mail carriers, soldiers, clergy, etc.); and (4) and (5) correspond with God's atoning work and accomodation for our original Parents in Paradise.

We don't need a good reason to be naked - only to be clothed!

As a result, my wife and are going to teach our children that nakedness is not something to eschew, condemn, be ashamed of or embarrassed by. We will allow them to be naked when they want (not in places where it's illegal!), and we will enjoy casual nudity as a family from time to time. Studies have shown that children who are taught to have a practical, matter-of-fact attitude about nudity are not morbidly curious little creatures about the "private parts", are able to cope more easily with puberty, and are not tempted by the allures of inappropriate content to the extent that non-naturists are. This is definitely how I want to train my children!

And while nudity is just one small aspect of our human experience (as one poster wisely put it), and certainly won't "change the world" by itself or bring a utopian existence to planet earth (only God, through His Son by the Gospel and Spirit can do this), bringing a Christian world and life view to bear on all aspects and areas of human endeavor can only enhance, enliven, and illuminate our faith in ways that bring us closer to God, both as individual persons and as a corporate body, knit fitly together in Him in the bond of peace by the Spirit of God.

Yours in Christ,
paleodoxy
 

jochanaan

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Here's a question for any who don't think naturism is good for a Christian: Why not? What Biblical reasons can you give for your stance? (And please don't trot out all the Scriptures on adultery or lust. The naturists here, including me, have said over and over that naturism is not sex or about sex or even lust-inducing.) If your reasons aren't from the Bible, then why?
 
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paleodoxy

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I suspect, based on my limited interaction with others on this topic, that from a Biblical standpoint, the Fall account in Gen.1-3, probably more than any other pasage, makes people hesitate to embrace naturism as a morally viable hobby - esp. in social situations.

A growing number of scholars, though, continue to poke holes in this theory with great interpretive effectiveness. I have worked on this text long enough, and consulted commentators enough on this issue to feel pretty comfortable with my conclusions by now -- and predictably, I've yet to see any real vital challenge to this alternative (which I briefly introduced in my prior post).

Appealing against naturism based on Paul's exhortain to "modesty" doesn't really work, either, because there are numerous examples of public nakedness by God-fearing Kings and prophets, as well as the apostles Peter and Paul (who penned I Tim.2:9 on "modesty"). It is increasingly recognized that "modesty" is cultural, situational, and behavioral. It doesn't imply that exposure of x amount of the body is INHERENTLY sinful, regardless of time, place or context.

Two other passages most often appealed to against naturism are Gen. 9 (Noah's nakedness) and Lev.18 / 20, which warns against "uncovering the nakedness" of your immediate and extended family (e.g., your father or your uncle). This fails, too, because most recognize that "uncover nakedness" is a euphemism for immorality ("sexual relations"). And Lev.20:11 explicitly confirms this by stating that having relations with one's mother is to uncover your father's nakedness. Leviticus 18 and 20 are explicitly condemning the sin of incest. These passages aren't even dealing with sexual immorality in general, but a specific type of immorality. Therefore, it cannot be talking about mere nakedness.

Having said that, scholars are realizing that the Noah account is a highly compressed narrative that implies the following: "father's nakedness" here means what it means in Leviticus, and Ham committed maternal incest (had sex with Noah's wife) and returned from the tent, holding up some token of his "triumph" that he might supplant Noah's authority and steal Shem's inheritance. Ham's brothers retrieved what Ham had taken, and went back into the tent to cover Noah's shame (evidence of Ham's shameful conduct).

When Noah discovers this, he curses Ham.

In the Bible, having sex with your father's wife is a means of seeking to overthrow his authority, just as Abishag violated his mother to supplant King David.

So anyway, I'm just wondering: Why all the opposition to nakedness? Can't Christians enjoy the freedom of being naked in the outdoors without worrying about the charge of "immorality" or "immodesty" looming over them constantly?

Those who participate on this board and who may be following this thread: What do you think? And why? What is your opinion on the biblical evidence offered for nudity and naturism?

LET'S GET SOME FUN DISCUSSION GOING!!! :)
 
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Natman

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Paleodoxy,

What I have found through posting on some of these forums is that people are generally set in their ways, or their parents ways, and are too lazy to do an in depth exegetical study on this topic.

They state their opposition, then, when challenged for scriptural evidence, quickly retreat. Perhaps they have gone off to study the issue with the intent of returning with more evidence, but either forget, can't find the evidence and hence won't bother to say that they concur, or simply get distracted by some of the other more defensible issues such as the ever-present "H" topic.

Like you, I would love to see a hearty, un-biased discussion.
 
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Samuel_Rigby

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I just assumed we've all decided to agree to disagree. It's kinda like the masturbation threads. People are set in their ways about what they believe. Since the Bible does not say "Thou shall not touch" or "Thou shall not get naked in public" then we are left with passages which we feel address the issues informally. That is where the debate begins. People disagree over what they think the Bible means.

I've gotten tired of debates. They waste too much time and energy. No one ever changes their mind on the issue.
 
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Natman

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Rigby470 said:
I've gotten tired of debates. They waste too much time and energy. No one ever changes their mind on the issue.

Actually, I am one that DID, and it opened my eyes and my mind to some things that I had assumed were scriptural but never took the time to read up on. BOy was I wrong.

I am reading through the Bible for the umpteenth time, but all of a sudden, I am far more focused and seeing things in a completely different light. Now it is more like reading love letters, rather than just the cyclic story of man's relationship with a distant and mysterious God.
 
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peternat

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[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']I live in South Africa. I don't judge others that differs from my view. [/FONT][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']I am a Christian and a naturist. I love the Lord, being saved by grace. I find no conflict from Scripture with naturism and being a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. What is important is that a Christian Naturist should live a life according to His word.

[/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Look at the following:[/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.[/FONT][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']

Thus deal with the problem on the inside, your desires. As believers in the Lord Jesus, we have His Spirit, the Holy Spirit as Helper and Comforter; He helps us to be more than conquerors, also over temptations

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Matt 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.[/FONT]

[/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Look at the following and realise it isn’t clothes or nakedness that causes you to sin. Christians can be naturists, the lives we live by grace in the Lord Jesus is what counts. Let the Lord clean the inside and the outside shall be clean too.

[/FONT]

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Mark 7:20-23 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
[/FONT]


[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Have a blessed day
Peter[/FONT]
 
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peternat

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[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']I live in South Africa. I don't judge others that differs from my view. [/FONT][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']I am a Christian and a naturist. I love the Lord, being saved by grace. I find no conflict from Scripture with naturism and being a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. What is important is that a Christian Naturist should live a life according to His word.

[/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Look at the following:[/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.[/FONT][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']

Thus deal with the problem on the inside, your desires. As believers in the Lord Jesus, we have His Spirit, the Holy Spirit as Helper and Comforter; He helps us to be more than conquerors, also over temptations

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Matt 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.[/FONT]

[/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Look at the following and realise it isn’t clothes or nakedness that causes you to sin. Christians can be naturists, the lives we live by grace in the Lord Jesus is what counts. Let the Lord clean the inside and the outside shall be clean too.

[/FONT]

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Mark 7:20-23 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

[/FONT]

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Please have a look at my blogs and comment
[/FONT]

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']
Peter[/FONT]
 
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dayhiker

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Just spent a vacation week at a resort that was clothing optional ... very nice.

Looking forward to summer in the north so I can get nakid more often. yaaaaa ....
Its such a blessing to be able to see people as pure whether they have their clothes on or off.
 
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Darkhorse

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Looking at this revived 10-year-old thread, it's interesting to read the original posters and their clearly stated, well reasoned explanations of why they love nudism, and why they feel there is no conflict between nudism and Christianity.

Unfortunately, none of them have been here for the last 7 years (approximately).

I see most of them on other forums, alive and well, still discussing Christian nudism with others who are friendly to their ideas.

It's especially interesting to contrast the early posts here with many of the more-recent posts on other threads dealing with nudism, toplessness, and breastfeeding. Many of the younger, more-recent posters have much less tolerance for these topics, and in general show a reactionary rigidity against the ideas and experiences of their elders.

Makes you wonder...
 
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dayhiker

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I'm thinking this shows up with the same change that has gone on in Congress.
In general, people seem to be more dogmatic about things. Which to me is kinda strange as so many young people were brought up as many adults were complaining about how tolerance was being taught in schools.

I read a while back that young people in Europe aren't that interested in being nude at the beach.

Kinda sad to me that people are getting less free rather than enjoying the freedom Jesus gave,
 
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toramei

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I think that most Christians by pass the question in Genesis when GOD asked Adam " who told you that you were naked ? " Think about the question pray about it get the Holy Spirit to enlighten you.
Man has made his own judgement call man thinks that by covering his body with clothes will take care of lustful thoughts.A woman could be covered with a garment from head to toe with only openings for the eyes.This will not prevent lust.The only way is to take away your thoughts from lusting and focus on JESUS.This way the devil will not win.Yes man is weak but GOD is strong.We can walk,talk,pray,and be naked once again with GOD.GOD did create nudity it is man that is hiding from GOD.
 
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dayhiker

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I'm getting to go to a nudist resort again this weekend and the weather is going to be great. It was two years ago that I last went to Cedar Waters in NH.
This place is owned and run by Christians. They have church service ever Sunday there. I'll miss that since its Sat. I'm going. One also has to go as a couple
so I'm going with Jaz.
 
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Darkhorse

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Sounds like fun! Hope you have a great time...

My family and I have one more nude weekend coming up before the Big Chill keeps us imprisoned in clothes until next spring - at least outdoors.
 
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