Natural law of Creation 'and the two shall become one flesh’ No longer valid in US

Lulav

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just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

For the iniquity of the daughter of my people Is greater than the sin of Sodom, Which was overthrown as in a moment, And no hands were turned toward her.

Are we in for the same punishment as Sodom and Gomorrah? Now that it has become a Law of the land, is this the final nail in our coffin?

Are we under the leadership of a Gay man and transvestite woman?
 
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Open Heart

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I did already *sigh* native Americans, as well. That's two.
What native american tribe allowed for MARRIED gays? I've studied them in depth and know of none. Please provide a source. I'm sure you won't take it personally that I don't just take your word for it.

I know that I've run into people who have told me that the Lakota allowed for gay marriage, but a Lakota I knew who was on the tribal council told me that Lakota culture was very hostile to gays.

I've also read that the main tribes of the USA have come out against same sex marriage.

For this reason, I will accept only Native American sources.
 
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Lulav

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What native american tribe allowed for MARRIED gays? I've studied them in depth and know of none. Please provide a source. I'm sure you won't take it personally that I don't just take your word for it.

I know that I've run into people who have told me that the Lakota allowed for gay marriage, but a Lakota I knew who was on the tribal council told me that Lakota culture was very hostile to gays.

I've also read that the main tribes of the USA have come out against same sex marriage.

For this reason, I will accept only Native American sources.
Well then you should ask aniello, he's half Lakota.
 
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Armoured

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What native american tribe allowed for MARRIED gays? I've studied them in depth and know of none. Please provide a source. I'm sure you won't take it personally that I don't just take your word for it.

I know that I've run into people who have told me that the Lakota allowed for gay marriage, but a Lakota I knew who was on the tribal council told me that Lakota culture was very hostile to gays.

I've also read that the main tribes of the USA have come out against same sex marriage.

For this reason, I will accept only Native American sources.
I'm not an expert on native Americans, but did you read the link I already sent you?
 
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Open Heart

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I'm not an expert on native Americans, but did you read the link I already sent you?
The link about the early church performing gay marriages? I opened it, saw the title, laughed, and clicked it shut. I mean, REALLY? The early church considered homosexuality a sin. Does it make ANY sense to you that they would marry two gays?
 
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Armoured

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RDKirk

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Because I've read the Book. I know that it is given unto the Beast to make war with the saints and over come them.
I know that there will be a time when the world will be at war with the church, and, at least for a time, will seem to have won...
Yes, I know the end of the story...and I know, of course, that Heaven will prevail...but there are some tough times ahead.
I believe that the Lord is about to purge His church...judgment begins at the House of the Lord.
And if it begins with us...

So what is up with your "...death-blow to an already dying church" talk?
 
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Open Heart

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Maybe go back and read it. Then check his sources.

And maybe next time don't ask for citations if you're not going to actually look at them.

Edit: If that link was too much for you, here's a considerably tamer wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions
Just because I ask for a citation doesn't mean I'm always going to accept what you offer. If you offer me the national enquirer I'm going to laugh. Just because something is on the internet doesn't automatically make it a good source -- there is a lot of trash online.

Now Wikipedia is an average source; you can usually depend on it. I notice it did a lot of mixing apples with oranges, introducing instances of gay unions that were not marriages (like the pederasty in Greece). Nevertheless, I thought the Nero stuff was interesting. I find it odd that the scholars I've read before don't mention this. I wonder if it's because they believe it to have been an anomaly to Roman culture (IOW not normal). But you would think that a marriage of someone like Nero would be well known.

Looking further into what they are saying about Native Americans. First, I am still suspicious if for no other reasons than tribal names are not being given. Native Americans are not a single culture. But at any rate, these "two spirits" that are being discussed are not homosexuals but transgenders. I don't know if you make that distinction, but I certainly do.
 
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Open Heart

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Tribal laws of the two largest Native American tribes in the United States prohibit gay marriage, as do the laws of nine other smaller tribes.

The Navajo and Cherokee Nations, the first and second largest tribes respectively, together have about 600,000 members. The nine smaller tribes that ban gay marriage have another 350,000 members. These tribes all either define marriage as between a man and a woman or explicitly prohibit same-sex marriage, according to the Associated Press (AP)
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/kat...s-including-two-largest-prohibit-gay-marriage
 
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Chicken Little

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if we want to get real
"traditional " about that subject of" two spirits" then really for most tribes we have to visit all the concepts involved around the concepts of Eunuchs/or slaves/ captive and criminals to get a full grasp of the concepts and laws . and mostly I think everything comes off. ( is it hateful to talk about that ?)
 
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Open Heart

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if we want to get real
"traditional " about that subject of" two spirits" then really for most tribes we have to visit all the concepts involved around the concepts of Eunuchs/or slaves/ captive and criminals to get a full grasp of the concepts and laws . and mostly I think everything comes off. ( is it hateful to talk about that ?)
In North American with few exceptions you are mostly talking about hunter gatherer tribes too primitive to have eunuchs (thank goodness). So what are you talking about?
 
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Chicken Little

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well you believe stuff taught to you from people who know everything because they read a book. tell me what else they have right ? anything ? no.. why that why then do you believe that ?
maybe It it stuck because it sounds like it is easier to steal a pack of forest monkeys blind , or to take everything rape and and murder them al, than it is to think about them stealing(usually in the name of your church) .. from real civilizations with real technology and real wealth and real histories ?

heck scientist and most natives even now days taught in the halls of lower morality call this lady and her offspring Myths. and mock them unmercifully.
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-lady-of-cofitachequi-part-one

Don't believe what you were taught. They are liars.
 
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Open Heart

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well you believe stuff taught to you from people who know everything because they read a book. tell me what else they have right ? anything ? no.. why that why then do you believe that ?
maybe It it stuck because it sounds like it is easier to steal a pack of forest monkeys blind , or to take everything rape and and murder them al, than it is to think about them stealing(usually in the name of your church) .. from real civilizations with real technology and real wealth and real histories ?

heck scientist and most natives even now days taught in the halls of lower morality call this lady and her offspring Myths. and mock them unmercifully.
http://www.examiner.com/article/the-lady-of-cofitachequi-part-one

Don't believe what you were taught. They are liars.
anthropologists don't just read books, they do field work. that's why they are considered experts.

Why are you so incredibly anti-intellectual? In your world, no one is an expert. Why should I click on your link? Why are you even offering this link--what is it supposed to prove? And why would you offer an expert after dissing the experts?
 
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aniello

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In North American with few exceptions you are mostly talking about hunter gatherer tribes too primitive to have eunuchs (thank goodness). So what are you talking about?

O H, got your PM.

Funny timing, at this time I'm at Pine Ridge, SD following Wiwanyang wacipi(Sun dance) and Hamblaychia(Vision quest and piercing ceremony[from my youth I have the scars]) visiting with the native side(father's side) of my family. My Mom was the product of a Kahn/Levin union, of mostly Sephardic Sicilian background with a bit of Spanish entering in about 1810-1815 from a chap from very northern New Mexico that went east to trade and married into the family back then. My bio-dad hated me from birth, for what reason I have never known, and so at aged 5 I was sent to be raised by my Mom's oldest brother(I.M. Kahn) in K.C. MO, in 1940. He was a rather secular Jew as was his wife, Schiffra. We'd get religious about twice a year, .......sometimes. Once a year I was sent back to Pine Ridge so that I would not lose out on my "wonderful Lakota heritage". My bio-dad was soon beating hell out of me, nevertheless I learned much of the traditional spiritual traditions of my oyate Lakota, my mitakuye oyasin being very dear to me to this day. Then I would be sent back to my uncle in K.C. BUT, due to my rather loose exposure to Judaism and teaching at B'nai Yehudah, Reform in Kansas City, bits of Torah stuck in my mind which eventually led me to believe that Y'shua/Jesus was, is and shall be the Jewish Messiah. Circuitous path. Oh, the dominating white religion on the reservations Lakota, as well as the schools, was RCC under the Jesuits. Fun, NOT!!!

So much for me. E finito.

As to my tribe's traditional acceptance of homosexuality(meaning in the old days) and this 2 spirit dreck, it was NOT acceptable, for the most basic and what should be logically obvious reasons. The "soft fellas" were not good warriors, not good hunters and did not function in a way that would increase the tribe's numbers, therefore, my elders taught, they "left", never mind the reason(s) or methodology. Tribe simply couldn't afford to keep them, nomadic hunting/gathering allowed no flex for such nonsense.

Since reservationizing and becoming a ward of the gov't and at their $$$$ whim we haave had to accede(on the surface) to their dictums and thus we tolerate the homo issue, when the gov't is watching. When they're not watching, well.............. .

We have alcoholism, addictionism, infant mortality rates, depression, hopelessness, teen suicides and our own political corruption that is out of sight. Faggotry is a problem we don't need but it exists, unacceptable in reality that it is.

We are trying to keep the Euro-centric thinking basis out, we want to see it gone. You people are destroying yourselves, just as Mahpiya Lute predicted.

Friday past, July 3, I turned 80. I have related what I know, I will not comment further beyond this.

Doubtless I have offended the bounds of political correctness, a fear based behaviour which I have nothing but contempt for. No apologies here. So ban me.

Nevertheless, in plain english, Y'shua/Jesus is L-rd.
 
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Chicken Little

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ps please remember that what some of you will read on that site is some fellas opinions of what he is seeing and his opinion of what is remembered. and that is all the guys with the 4 year degrees have . only in their priesthoods they are allowed to make up the stories and change their magic machines and crystal balls as they go and will only be believed by their truest believers and disciples .

ps Now that we have established that somebody tried to use a concept they didn't understand to justify their lifestyle choices and addictions. I can say that what the source was was probably the same groups that have tried to convince us David and Jonathan were gay and that Jesus and John were also.. just don't believe most of what you read. it is a addiction called militant sexuality and the US has been invaded and has all but surrendered. already.
 
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