Are Pro ‘Traditional Marriage’ Christians Supposed To Say “Congrats” To A Newly-Wedded Gay Friend?

TheBarrd · Jul 5, 2015

bhsmte said:
Do think people should still go to jail for adultery?

You're not going to like my answer, but, actually, yes, I do.
And I think we need to ditch the "no fault" divorce laws, as well.

bhsmte · Jul 5, 2015

TheBarrd said:
You're not going to like my answer, but, actually, yes, I do.
And I think we need to ditch the "no fault" divorce laws, as well.

If everyone guilty of adultery was sent to jail (and I am sure you would want all the guilty to go to jail), over 20% of the married women in this country would be confined and over 30% of the men. These number, are also conservative estimates, as some studies have the numbers much higher, for both men and women.

You may be surprised at who gets tossed in the can, as well.

TheBarrd · Jul 5, 2015

Freodin said:
You know that all these analogies would work a lot better if you had some demonstrable evidence for the existence of rafts or life ring.

That's another thread, Freodin. Here, we are discussing whether Christians ought to congratulate people who have legalized what our God has called an abomination.

Cearbhall · Jul 5, 2015

TheBarrd said:
What these folks miss is that everyone has a sin nature.
Someone is a kleptomaniac. He was "born that way"...he just has an overpowering urge to steal. He will say, "when did you decide not to steal", as if stealing were the most natural thing in the world. Because to him, it is.
Should we legalize it, so that he can indulge himself at his local WalMart?

I don't think so...

We're not missing anything. It's just a fairly simple concept to us that while a person does not have a right to take something without the consent of the owner, he or she does have a right to have consensual sex. Somehow, this doesn't seem to be confusing to people when the act in question is heterosexual acts.

The question of whether it's morally right is an entirely different question, and a person's right to have consensual sex does not rely on your answer to this question.

TheBarrd · Jul 5, 2015

bhsmte said:
If everyone guilty of adultery was sent to jail (and I am sure you would want all the guilty to go to jail), over 20% of the married women in this country would be confined and over 30% of the men.

You may be surprised at who gets tossed in the can, as well.

I suspect that if it were still a jailable offense, people would not do it so often.
However, I am willing that over 20% of the married women in this country and over 30% of the men spend a bit of time in the can.
Not my fault they could not honor their own vows.
People did tend to take their marriages much more seriously, back then.
And that can only be a good thing.

bhsmte · Jul 5, 2015

TheBarrd said:
I suspect that if it were still a jailable offense, people would not do it so often.
However, I am willing that over 20% of the married women in this country and over 30% of the men spend a bit of time in the can.
Not my fault they could not honor their own vows.
People did tend to take their marriages much more seriously, back then.
And that can only be a good thing.

Cheating amongst men was actually quite higher many decades ago, than it is today. The women, are starting to catch up with men however.

TheBarrd · Jul 5, 2015

Cearbhall said:
We're not missing anything. It's just a fairly simple concept to us that while a person does not have a right to take something without the consent of the owner, he or she does have a right to have consensual sex. Somehow, this doesn't seem to be confusing to people when the act in question is heterosexual acts.

If you've been following the conversation I've been having with bhsmte, you'd know that I do not agree that people ought to have a right to have consensual sex outside of marriage. That is, traditional marriage. And that includes heterosexuals as well.

TheBarrd · Jul 5, 2015

bhsmte said:
Cheating amongst men was actually quite higher many decades ago, than it is today. The women, are starting to catch up with men however.

I know that my uncle spent some time "in the can" for cheating on my aunt. As I recall, he resisted arrest and got knocked in the head with a billy club.
He did time for public drunkeness as well.
Altogether not a nice guy...

Cearbhall · Jul 5, 2015

football5680 said:
The revulsion is due to the fact that people are trying to push it across as something that is perfectly acceptable. You don't see many people trying to say being a drunkard is perfectly acceptable.

Well, some people do think it's perfectly acceptable to be gay and be in a same-sex relationship.

Winepress777 said:
Any flagrant disregard for the Righteousness of God, especially sexual, is disgusting. Of all sins, those are the most heinous to God, because they are a sin against one's own body, as well as against another's own body as well. (refs provided on request)

Yeah, no, you have to twist a lot of scripture to come up with the idea that sexual sins are the worst possible thing you can do. But I'm sure you took the time to do that.

However, none of this is the topic of the thread, and it will get shut down if we keep going down the usual path, which is a banned topic. The question is, how should you respond when your only objection to someone's life event is your personal religious convictions? Should you congratulate them? Preach to them? Ignore it?

bhsmte · Jul 5, 2015

TheBarrd said:
I know that my uncle spent some time "in the can" for cheating on my aunt. As I recall, he resisted arrest and got knocked in the head with a billy club.
He did time for public drunkeness as well.
Altogether not a nice guy...

I am not talking about one isolated incident. I am referring to overall numbers through time. When there were penalties for cheating, men cheated at a higher rate than they do today, without penalties. Today, women cheat more often then they did decades ago, because they have more opportunity to do so, at work etc..

Making alcohol illegal did not stop people from drinking and making infidelity illegal will not stop people from cheating.

Cearbhall · Jul 5, 2015

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 5, 2015

Winepress777 said:
Last year my cousin asked if I'd play music for her daughter's homosexual wedding I just stared and could only say, "what?" I was actually at a loss for words. I told her I didn't think we'd be able to and she offered a lot of money and I just stared again... it wasn't about the money I told her. She then became quite perturbed and began to sort of push me and I waved her away. Now I don't see that side of the family. I don't miss them. They openly celebrate an abomination.
A neice sleeps with every guy she meets nearly. So also do two of my nephews, any girl any time, they say it's healthy and enjoyable and they love it and that's that. Now I don't see them either. I don't miss them. They openly celebrate fornication and adultery.
Any flagrant disregard for the Righteousness of God, especially sexual, is disgusting. Of all sins, those are the most heinous to God, because they are a sin against one's own body, as well as against another's own body as well. (refs provided on request) Not to mention the absolutely unnatural disgust associated with even thinking of homosexual acts, as momentarily accidental as that may be, it is a devastatingly indecent act that can in no way be construed as "love". It is corrupted lawless "lust" at best. Throughout scriptures, they always break out into the open prior to being destroyed by the righteous King. So no matter what, they will one day be purged. If they won't be converted from their sins, I won't be respecting them or hanging around them for when the day of reckoning comes on them.

Boy, am I glad I don't have to go through life with these thoughts I my head. I'm sure it isn't easy worrying so much about the lives of others all the time.

Cearbhall · Jul 5, 2015

Getting back on topic, I mostly agree with the blog post. Finding a middle ground that is polite without betraying your beliefs is probably the best route. However, the end of the blog post baffled me a bit:

A Christian PTMF’s response: “Hey – thanks for sharing that with me! May God infill your lives in every way possible!”

Your gay friend may look at you funny, balk at the statement, growl “What’s that supposed to mean”? or he/she might surprise you by going, “Oh, uh … thanks!”

She seems to be talking only about a certain group of same-sex couples. I wouldn't expect a Christian couple that just got married in a church to have any adverse or surprised reaction to such a statement.

bhsmte · Jul 5, 2015

GoldenBoy89 said:
Boy, am I glad I don't have to go through life with these thoughts I my head. I'm sure it isn't easy worrying so much about the lives of others all the time.

Yes, the internal turmoil must be something to deal with.

Some just can't stop from judging others and what they do with their life, even though the person doing the judging, is allowed to live their own life, as they see fit.

Cearbhall · Jul 5, 2015

I think it's pretty funny how the blog author starts using PTMF to refer to herself and others, but mocks the LGBT acronym every time she uses it by adding "(xyz)." Unless this was just an additional way of mocking it?

Lulav · Jul 5, 2015

Winepress777 said:
Last year my cousin asked if I'd play music for her daughter's homosexual wedding I just stared and could only say, "what?" I was actually at a loss for words. I told her I didn't think we'd be able to and she offered a lot of money and I just stared again... it wasn't about the money I told her. She then became quite perturbed and began to sort of push me and I waved her away. Now I don't see that side of the family. I don't miss them. They openly celebrate an abomination.
A neice sleeps with every guy she meets nearly. So also do two of my nephews, any girl any time, they say it's healthy and enjoyable and they love it and that's that. Now I don't see them either. I don't miss them. They openly celebrate fornication and adultery.
Any flagrant disregard for the Righteousness of God, especially sexual, is disgusting. Of all sins, those are the most heinous to God, because they are a sin against one's own body, as well as against another's own body as well. (refs provided on request) Not to mention the absolutely unnatural disgust associated with even thinking of homosexual acts, as momentarily accidental as that may be, it is a devastatingly indecent act that can in no way be construed as "love". It is corrupted lawless "lust" at best. Throughout scriptures, they always break out into the open prior to being destroyed by the righteous King. So no matter what, they will one day be purged. If they won't be converted from their sins, I won't be respecting them or hanging around them for when the day of reckoning comes on them.

Homosexuality is not the most heinous sin to G-d, it is Idolatry, that goes against the creator himself.

Lulav · Jul 5, 2015

As far as congratulations goes, a true believer should not sanctify in any manner this kind of union. That by attending the 'nuptials' or making any references that show any approval even by just saying congratulations, which indicates your approval.

You must remember weddings are a ritual that comes from the Jewish/Christian bible. Even though today weddings are such a production, an 'event' people don't realize when you are invited to attend how G-d looks at this. You are there to be a witness to two joining themselves together as 'one'.

That is why the official usually asks, 'Is there anyone here who does not consent to these two being joined?' Unless you want to use this as a place to show your beliefs (and I would daresay that whomever is officiating is told to not even ask that question which shows how far from the ideal it has fallen) then I would say to not put yourself in that position.

A friend of someone is one who has basic beliefs in common, moral, ethical etc.

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 5, 2015

TheBarrd said:
My friend just sold his soul into hell...should I congratulate him?
Rather, I will weep for him, because he has exchanged his hope of eternity for a few years of...eww, I can't bring myself to think about it.
However, the point was made that Christians are not concerned about adultery, fornication, drunkeness, etc...that is just not true.
As far as I know SCOTUS is not even considering making any of those things legal...I'm pretty sure that if and when it does, there will be Christians who object.
At least I hope so....

I, me, myself. Me, me.. ME! A person, presumably close to you gets married, and all you can think about is yourself and your beliefs and what you would've done different or what you would not do in their situation instead of just saying, "congratulations, I wish you two the best."

For having a commandment to love your neighbors and enemies, I notice Christians almost always seem more concerned with themselves and how they are better than those misguided souls they look down upon.

Cearbhall · Jul 5, 2015

Lulav said:
You must remember weddings are a ritual that comes from the Jewish/Christian bible.

This begs the question, since marriage existed both prior to and independently of Abrahamic religions, is there a difference in how a Christian who only supports opposite-sex marriage should respond to a same-sex Christian marriage and a secular same-sex marriage? From the point of view of "PTMF," it would seem that the former is a sham and an insult, while the latter is simply a different institution that has nothing to do with Jewish or Christian marriage.

As someone who was raised Catholic, it seems rather like the doctrinal difference between a baptized Catholic marrying in a Muslim ceremony and a lifelong Muslim getting married in a Muslim ceremony. The former is considered to be invalid since the "lapsed Catholic" is still obligated to marry in the RCC, while the latter is just considered a Muslim marriage.

Lulav · Jul 5, 2015

Cearbhall said:
This begs the question, since marriage existed both prior to and independently of Abrahamic religions, is there a difference in how a Christian who only supports opposite-sex marriage should respond to a same-sex Christian marriage and a secular same-sex marriage? From the point of view of "PTMF," it would seem that the former is a sham and an insult, while the latter is simply a different institution that has nothing to do with Jewish or Christian marriage.

They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?" 8 He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."…

"FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, 8 AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."… Mark 10:8

I am speaking from the perimeters that Jesus set as above.

Since G-d made mankind and G-d caused it to be divided into two parts to compliment each other thus when each half comes together they are complete.

Not believing in G-d does not change the fact that he created mankind and wants one male and one female to form a union. Only a male and female can form this union, Biblically called Marriage.

As far as there being a difference between secular and 'Christian' I don't see any. A Christian is one who follows Jesus and his teachings.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men.

Changing the definition of what marriage means does not make it right in G-ds eyes, HE is the one to define things.

This is the reason for this proverb: Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the L-RD weighs the hearts.

Are Pro ‘Traditional Marriage’ Christians Supposed To Say “Congrats” To A Newly-Wedded Gay Friend?

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