Are Pro ‘Traditional Marriage’ Christians Supposed To Say “Congrats” To A Newly-Wedded Gay Friend?

civilwarbuff · Jul 4, 2015

lupusFati said:
Yeah, never said that. But if you need to wash your hands of someone who challenges your worldview, then go ahead. I'll stop wasting my time and hoping you'll actually learn something about those you try to 'save'.

Even your Jesus hung out with tax collectors. Maybe you should humble yourself.

Hmmmm.....maybe you care after all....hoping I will learn something....interesting :amen:

lupusFati · Jul 4, 2015

No. I care about the potential of humanity. I don't care for humans themselves. But if they're going to be 'in charge' on this planet, they should live up to it. So far, they're not doing that.

Even if I hate humans, they affect everything else on this planet, it seems. So I don't care about them in the sense of 'oh I hope they're okay'. I view all life as precious, so if humanity betters itself somehow, that means less life suffers all around.

dgiharris · Jul 4, 2015

lupusFati said:
I think if you're really sincere about this, your first step should be to realize that it's not you who saves people. It's your god who does..

True. But we can either help the process or hurt the process. I am a strong advocate of trying to help the process.

Obviously a potential pitfall here is hubris... We can easily fall into a trap of "I'm a better Christian than you because I saved X number of people more than you have..." not my intent

lupusFati said:
...The whole "I saved so many sinners" mentality is what's poisoning you. You think it's just the attitude that turned me though? It's not that simple. That's just one main reason..

I don't think of it as saving sinners. I think of it as bringing people to god and helping them to better their lives. I mean, someone brought me to god and it helped my life so I'm just paying it forward...

lupusFati said:
....I'm tired of churches that are just glorified social clubs, I'm tired of christians not doing things about people like Westboro (aka, there's no accountability, I feel), and I'm really, really tired of christians trying to impose their religious views on me in a political and legal sense. I thought I had the right to freedom from religion, not just freedom of religion.

Christians don't seem to get that. It might help if they practiced what they preached, too.

As a Christian, I have to sadly agree with a lot of what you say above. However, despite all that, there are still really good churches and really good Christians that want nothing more than to make the world a better place.

But yeah, every time I see what I like to think of as "negative" Christians, Christians that like to thump you with their bibles and condescend to you from their pulpits of moral superiority... it makes me sad.

Strathos · Jul 4, 2015

civilwarbuff said:
I am your friend....I just murdered your entire family...still willing to accept my flaws?

Somehow I don't think I would remain friends with you after that...

SuperCloud · Jul 4, 2015

Winepress777 said:
Last year my cousin asked if I'd play music for her daughter's homosexual wedding I just stared and could only say, "what?" I was actually at a loss for words. I told her I didn't think we'd be able to and she offered a lot of money and I just stared again... it wasn't about the money I told her. She then became quite perturbed and began to sort of push me and I waved her away. Now I don't see that side of the family. I don't miss them. They openly celebrate an abomination.
A neice sleeps with every guy she meets nearly. So also do two of my nephews, any girl any time, they say it's healthy and enjoyable and they love it and that's that. Now I don't see them either. I don't miss them. They openly celebrate fornication and adultery.
Any flagrant disregard for the Righteousness of God, especially sexual, is disgusting. Of all sins, those are the most heinous to God, because they are a sin against one's own body, as well as against another's own body as well. (refs provided on request) Not to mention the absolutely unnatural disgust associated with even thinking of homosexual acts, as momentarily accidental as that may be, it is a devastatingly indecent act that can in no way be construed as "love". It is corrupted lawless "lust" at best. Throughout scriptures, they always break out into the open prior to being destroyed by the righteous King. So no matter what, they will one day be purged. If they won't be converted from their sins, I won't be respecting them or hanging around them for when the day of reckoning comes on them.

So, there is thread on disowning family that are very bad people.

I asked the OP--no response--what is "bad people" in this case, "homosexuals"?

This is why I can't know what someone means when they say "bad." Not to mention I've met some pretty "bad" people (smack their wives around etc.) but stand in harsh judgment of others.

Not that there aren't some real evil people one can be related too. A person's father might be a serial killer or a daughter a "black widow."

I have a number of homosexual and lesbian relatives. Most of them are pretty good people. I have one or more heterosexual relatives that are pretty wicked.

SuperCloud · Jul 4, 2015

dgiharris said:
If the answer is yes, if sin is sin, then I don't understand the level of revulsion Christians feel for gays yet don't feel for those who engage in premarital sex, have children out of wedlock, are drunkards, or break any of the commandments...

There are plenty of Christians that hate drunkards. Some of them are pro-gay people. Some of them are actual gay people.

SuperCloud · Jul 4, 2015

Too much SSM talk. I'm getting tired of these subjects. So, I think this will be the last I post in this thread.

Cearbhall · Jul 4, 2015

Flagrant Regard said:
https://flagrantregard.wordpress.co...to-say-congrats-to-a-newly-wedded-gay-friend/

I mean, you don't have to say anything that you don't want to, but if two opposite-sex people I knew decided to get married and I didn't think they were ready or compatible, I would still congratulate them...

football5680 · Jul 5, 2015

dgiharris said:
Okay... So based on your post, we can conclude that homosexuality is NOT a sing that leads unto death. So "if" homosexuality is a sin, then it is a fairly mild one?

Or put another way, is there any ranking system in the bible that does NOT depend on human interpretation on what is worse? As near as I can tell, there really is nothing in the New Testament that ranks homosexuality is a greater sin than other sins. All I see are Christians using their "own" interpretation of the bible and they keep going back to and cherry picking the Old Testament. Yet, the same logic and cherry picking doesn't apply to other sins, like premarital sex.

If anything, Christians should be just as upset at premarital sex as they are homosexuality but they aren't. And I can't abide by that level of hypocrisy. So I just don't understand why Christians have drawn this line in the sand for this specific sin and not all the other sins...

Throughout history, there are proponents and opponents on every key issue. One side is right, one side is wrong. History does not look kindly on those who are wrong. Based on social and moral evolution, homosexuals are now considered equal by the majority of society. Especially in a society that prides itself for equality under the law. Imo, Christians are on the wrong side of history here. Christians are directly or indirectly calling for discrimination against gays and gays only. Not all so-called sinners: not adulterers, not fornicators, not illegitimate children, not drunkards, etc, etc--- just gays.

Furthermore, the hate Christians display on this topic runs counter to the teachings of Jesus who was a proponent of "Loving they enemy" and "forgiveness". For the life of me, I just can't understand the logic here.

This would be like followers of Ghandi supporting street brawling...

But somehow, Christians have figured out how to rationalize hate and prejudice and discrimination and intolerance and then believe that Jesus supports them in their hatred and discrimination and intolerance...

the mental gymnastics required for such a feat of hypocrisy is astounding...

What from my post would make you assume I don't think homosexuality is a sin that leads to death? I do think it leads to death along with adultery, fornication, etc...

Can you really say that you love your enemies if you allow them to walk blindly towards their own destruction? If somebody is in danger, would you warn them or simply keep quiet?

quatona · Jul 5, 2015

Flagrant Regard said:
Are Pro ‘Traditional Marriage’ Christians Supposed To Say “Congrats” To A Newly-Wedded Gay Friend?

I guess a good Christian should never miss an opportunity to make their religious doctrines and judgements known, and spice them up with some back-handed preaching.

The Cadet · Jul 5, 2015

civilwarbuff said:
If you bother to READ the reply you might be able to figure out that this was about accepting "flaws" and has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality. Your snarkiness though, is duly noted.

It's just such a fundamentally different issue that it boggles the mind to make that comparison.

Personally, I tend to avoid being "friends" with people who find me unworthy of their respect. Especially if that's based on beliefs which they cannot rationally justify.

quatona · Jul 5, 2015

civilwarbuff said:
I am your friend....I just murdered your entire family...still willing to accept my flaws?

Your flaws being?

TheBarrd · Jul 5, 2015

dgiharris said:
Imagine that you are in a commercial jet flying across the Pacific and it goes down and crash lands in the ocean. You manage to make it out of the plane and find an inflatable raft that seats 10 people. You make it to the raft and you notice some other survivors among the debris field. Do you feel you have a duty to aid them and help save their lives, or are you content to just sit back, relax, and hang out in your raft. You will not impede anyone trying to make it to your raft, but you won't help them either. Their survival is on them as far as you are concerned...

Whenever I see a Christian who delights in avoiding those they can save because they are sinners, I think of that Christian as the person in that raft, safe and secure while those around them drown.

In my humble opinion, the reason why Jesus says, "love your enemy" is so that we will be among our enemies. I mean, how else are you going to reach sinners and bring them to God? How many souls can you save if you are so easily detoured? Just think how happy you make Satan by your actions.

I'm being serious. Satan thanks you for your views. You see, when people like you avoid family members and sinners, you deprive them of an opportunity of hearing God's word and seeing the good things God can do.

One of the most effective ways to reach sinners is through example. If you are truly saved, if you are truly filled with the love and light of God, then others will see it. They will marvel at it. And over time they will say to themselves, "Man, I want that. I want to be like her! I want to be like him! I want to be like them!"

Then, those people will eventually approach you and be open and receptive to what you have to say about God...

Except in your case it won't happen because you won't be around. You can't be bothered to be around sinners. And thus, Satan thanks you for your thin skin and easily ruffled sensibilities.

Yes...the Christian in the raft who refuses to reach out to others around him who are drowning.
That's a lovely comparison, but it kinda falls a little flat after the guy in the raft has tried to reach out to those drowning people and not only have they told him that they do not want to get up on the raft with him, they have actually tried to pull him down into the water with them...
There is a time to reach out to sinners around you...and then there is a time to shake the dust from your feet.
We have so little time, and there is so much work to do. Let us concentrate, then, on getting the truth to those with ears to hear it, and not waste so much time trying to shout into ears that are willfully deaf to our pleas...

TheBarrd · Jul 5, 2015

civilwarbuff said:
Since by your own admission, no one can reach you I bid you adieu....

He doesn't seem to want to get aboard your raft...now what?

TheBarrd · Jul 5, 2015

My friend just sold his soul into hell...should I congratulate him?
Rather, I will weep for him, because he has exchanged his hope of eternity for a few years of...eww, I can't bring myself to think about it.
However, the point was made that Christians are not concerned about adultery, fornication, drunkeness, etc...that is just not true.
As far as I know SCOTUS is not even considering making any of those things legal...I'm pretty sure that if and when it does, there will be Christians who object.
At least I hope so....

Freodin · Jul 5, 2015

TheBarrd said:
My friend just sold his soul into hell...should I congratulate him?
Rather, I will weep for him, because he has exchanged his hope of eternity for a few years of...eww, I can't bring myself to think about it.

A few years of loving companionship with a caring partner perhaps? Yes, icky, I know.

However, the point was made that Christians are not concerned about adultery, fornication, drunkeness, etc...that is just not true.
As far as I know SCOTUS is not even considering making any of those things legal...I'm pretty sure that if and when it does, there will be Christians who object.
At least I hope so....

I hate to tell you: adultery, fornication and drunkeness are already legal.

civilwarbuff · Jul 5, 2015

Strathos said:
Somehow I don't think I would remain friends with you after that...

That was the point....

civilwarbuff · Jul 5, 2015

TheBarrd said:
He doesn't seem to want to get aboard your raft...now what?

He already has been thrown a life ring (he knows the Word). Now just pray he grabs it before drowning. :prayer:

Freodin · Jul 5, 2015

civilwarbuff said:
He already has been thrown a life ring (he knows the Word). Now just pray he grabs it before drowning.

You know that all these analogies would work a lot better if you had some demonstrable evidence for the existence of rafts or life ring.

Catherineanne · Jul 5, 2015

Flagrant Regard said:
https://flagrantregard.wordpress.co...to-say-congrats-to-a-newly-wedded-gay-friend/

I do hope the writer of that post inquires into the morals of every single newly married couple before congratulating them, and declines to do so if they have lived together, slept together or held hands before marriage.

What humbug.

Are Pro ‘Traditional Marriage’ Christians Supposed To Say “Congrats” To A Newly-Wedded Gay Friend?

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