Discussion Hunger and thirst for righteousness!

Gideons300 · Jul 4, 2015

Svt4Him said:
I think in the near future, the move in the Body of Christ will be one of Holiness. Not religiousness disguised as holiness, but true holiness. When that happens, you won't have to tell someone what to do and what not to do, they will just not want to do it. It's my hope that when that happens, the world will see we are different, and although not everyone will follow, more will and more will hunger after the things of God. Holiness only comes to those who are hungry for God, who have a good Godly fear, who do have Godly sorrow for sin, and when one is holy, they will experience sorrow, as you can't help but mourn for those who are lost and you can't help but be despised by those who like darkness.

A very good post here, brother. God has shown me that what you say is indeed coming en masse, but thank God we do not have to wait for the angel to stir the waters if we are desperate to escape Romans 7 and the power of the old rebellious nature.

To those desperate for true freedom, not just pardons while we remain imprisoned in natures that find "little" sins to be no real issue to God or to us, I guarantee that you are correct. No one will have to tell these "Know ye the Lord", for all shall know Him. All shall know the secret of abiding in Him. All shall be planted on the highway of holiness, where no enemy is found to trip us up. In this life, we will always have an enemy trying to keep us "nominal Christians", where is essence we have a name that we live, but we are dead. But praise God, He has more for us than we have imagined. He wants to impart to us how to walk in holiness, how to overcome, how to take that way of escape every single time we are tempted to do so.

It will not come to us because of our more strenuous efforts, but those strenuous efforts do accomplish one thing. They bring us to the point where we truly see how woefully weak we really are, so that we can cease from our own efforts and fall into the arms of the only one who can keep us from falling, the one who longs to BE our holiness if we will but step off our throne and let Him be Lord as well as savior.

Kudos on an excellent post.

Blessings,

Gids

Svt4Him · Jul 4, 2015

Well Gids there's something else weird, I actually read your complete post, so things are changing! Haha...

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and those who search that out are rewarded. Some may not, but that's the cry of my heart now to be one who does. But you must count the cost and it is great, but from the realm of eternity, you give up nothing of eternal value and you gain rewards from God.

Gideons300 · Jul 4, 2015

Svt4Him said:
Well Gids there's something else weird, I actually read your complete post, so things are changing! Haha...

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and those who search that out are rewarded. Some may not, but that's the cry of my heart now to be one who does. But you must count the cost and it is great, but from the realm of eternity, you give up nothing of eternal value and you gain rewards from God.

If you give me enough time, I grow on you, LOL. (sorta like a [plantars wart)

God has been showing me lately that one of the things we will be awakening to is that our true self is eternal but far too many believers live as if this life is the important one. God has told us to set our affections, our love, on things above, not on things of the earth. But we find the old nature cannot..... will not.... do this. When pleasing God with our lives, our thoughts, our actions, becomes more important to us than what we want, when we decide the only logical thing is to walk as He desires, as sojourners, as living sacrifices, as eternal children temporarily housed in fleshly bodies yet possessing brand new spiritual natures, we will find to our complete amazement that the promises God has made to us were all meant to be taken quite literally. We can overcome. We can stand up and resist satan steadfast in the faith. We can be kept from falling. May that revelation come to all of us, as we readjust our mindset to heavenly ones, unfettered and unaffected by the god of this world.

The cost may seem great, but in truth, once we truly catch a full glimpse of the pearl of great price He offers us..... overcoming natures where Christ dwells IN us, causing us to walk as obedient children, our measly pearls will pale in comparison. It is about to get really good. REALLY, REALLY good.

Blessings brother.

ToBeLoved · Jul 4, 2015

I had hoped someone would have talked about spreading the gospel, the Good News, the Great Commission, sigh.

JustHisKid · Jul 4, 2015

Gideons300 said:
If you give me enough time, I grow on you, LOL. (sorta like a [plantars wart)

God has been showing me lately that one of the things we will be awakening to is that our true self is eternal but far too many believers live as if this life is the important one. God has told us to set our affections, our love, on things above, not on things of the earth. But we find the old nature cannot..... will not.... do this. When pleasing God with our lives, our thoughts, our actions, becomes more important to us than what we want, when we decide the only logical thing is to walk as He desires, as sojourners, as living sacrifices, as eternal children temporarily housed in fleshly bodies yet possessing brand new spiritual natures, we will find to our complete amazement that the promises God has made to us were all meant to be taken quite literally. We can overcome. We can stand up and resist satan steadfast in the faith. We can be kept from falling. May that revelation come to all of us, as we readjust our mindset to heavenly ones, unfettered and unaffected by the god of this world.

The cost may seem great, but in truth, once we truly catch a full glimpse of the pearl of great price He offers us..... overcoming natures where Christ dwells IN us, causing us to walk as obedient children, our measly pearls will pale in comparison. It is about to get really good. REALLY, REALLY good.

Blessings brother.

What does this look like when we have to work and pay the bills and live in this world day in and day out?

JustHisKid · Jul 4, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
I had hoped someone would have talked about spreading the gospel, the Good News, the Great Commission, sigh.

Maybe that someone is you.

ToBeLoved · Jul 4, 2015

JustHisKid said:
Maybe that someone is you.

Yes, I said it. Someone has to contend for the gospel.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 4, 2015

jiminpa said:
By such a theology Paul wasn't saved either then.

But the scripture says, "awake, oh sleeper."

I long for more and more and more of Jesus, and I'm still not hungry enough yet.

Nowhere does Paul say that he was hungering after righteousness. What he was longing for was to know Christ better and in order to do that he was forgetting the past and pressing forward to gain the price of the high calling of God in Christ.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 4, 2015

Michael Collum said:
hmm hungering and thirsting, that's what communion is for no? (Jesus is the lord our righteousness)

Communion is for remembering that Jesus died on the cross for us. His body was broken that we may be made whole, and His blood for shed for the remission of our sins. If all our sins have been remitted through the blood of Jesus that was shed on the cross, then we are totally righteous through that blood.

Gideons300 · Jul 4, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
I had hoped someone would have talked about spreading the gospel, the Good News, the Great Commission, sigh.

And is that not the point? Are you suggesting that if we stay 'unencumbered' by hungering for more of Jesus and longing to please Him, we will pour ourselves out in spreading the gospel? Do you know the reason we are all for the most part unburdened for souls? It is because of lack in our own relationship with God, is it not?

I remember the story of the man on death row walking to the gallows and asking a going through the motions priest that was there to administer last rites if he truly believes in heaven and hell. The priest answered yes. The condemned man said this:

" Though all of England were covered with shards of broken glass, I would crawl across it on my knees if in so doing I could save just one man from such a horrible fate."

With whom do we identify deep inside?

Do you not see? The very fact that we can be so uncaring, so detached from the fight on all fronts, should alert us to the problem that should be obvious to us, but it is not. What fight?

The fight with the old nature to not allow it to rule over us.

The fight against satan, whose goal for us is either ownership or at the very minimum, making us of no effect in the spiritual war.

The fight against unbelief as we begin to learn the need for being steadfast in our faith in God to do what He promises to do.

The fight for the new nature, who we truly are, to fully rule over us and for the flesh, the old nature to be put off....and kept off.

We have a Christianity with none of those promoted or even discussed, now that I think about it, and even more incredibly, often times, men and women of God who sense something is amiss with our 'modern' Christianity and speak on our need for seeking His face, are chastened verbally for reminding us that hungering and thirsting for righteousness is a good thing, and a precursor of God responding, for He has promised:

"Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you."

I can promise you this. When we are properly connected to Him in full submission, full trust, and discover that abiding in Him with a pure conscience is totally guaranteed even as weak as we are, we WILL be evangelical.

Love does that. Joy does that. Seeing the old nature that we thought was a part of us actually rendered a non-factor, does that BIG TIME, for the principle is the same for us as it was for Peter "Such as I have, give I thee." Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks is appropriate now, with seldom a tear shed or a prayer of trevail poured out. But praise God, our awakening will fill us with HIM and HIS burden for the lost to come to the light. All we will have to do on that day is simply SHINE. Those that love the light will come to it. Period.

Our lack of being burdened for the lost is the surest of a multitude of signs that tell us that we need to be seeking Him for renewed vision. When we finally "taste and see that the Lord is good", men and women will come to us, so changed we will be, that they will inquire as to why we are different, so at peace, so full of love for others, so devoted to Jesus, not to a church that rested content talking about Him.

Leonanrd Ravenhill once stated wisely "You do not have to advertise a fire." He went on to say that it can be three in the morning, but a big fire will bring people out in droves. We as His people have great need of His fire, His heart, His passion, His priorities. How we need changed hearts, swapped priorities, a new desire to be found holy and pure before Him, but instead we say that we have need of nothing. We have Jesus, even though there is scant outward evidence in how we live, how we treat others, where our treasure is. This sad state should bother us to no end. Should. Thank God, soon it will, and when it does, trust me, dear brothers and sisters, the harvest, the final one will begin. Prepare to have your minds blown. Our horizons are about to be re-adjusted.

Many blessings to you,

Gids

Blessings,

Gideon

Gideons300 · Jul 5, 2015

JustHisKid said:
What does this look like when we have to work and pay the bills and live in this world day in and day out?

Of course we will still work, pay bills, take care of our families. BUT, we will do it walking in the full joy of our salvation and with a deep desire that in the midst of having to live in this world, we are nevertheless "not of it".

A few might try to use this life as an excuse for not adequately investing in a relationship with God on a deeper, eternal level, but if truth must rule, then for more than a few I suspect, their hearts are lodged quite firmly in this life. What is the only real solution to this? New hearts.

What will it look like? I suspect for each one, it will be slightly different, but I know this. Abiding in Christ produces fruits of the Spirit. They simply happen. No effort to be more patient. Simply being overtaken by it. A miracle. Those blessed fruits of Godly character are the result. Show me a brother who truly understands and experiences abiding in God as He meant it to be, and I will show you man who oozes the character...the very nature of God Himself, a loving man who truly does care for others more than for himself. How can this be possible? The master potter has finally been freed to work, by way of your full surrender and your full trust, and of all who will be amazed at the change God brings about in you, you will be more amazed, and more thankful, than any.

Blessings,

Gideon

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 5, 2015

Gideons300 said:
"He that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous."

We need to qualify what John says with what Paul says in Philippians 3:9:
And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

So when I say we don't have to hunger after righteousness any longer, it is because we have righteousness from God by faith. Therefore, we do righteousness because we have it from God. It is true that we do hunger after God, but it is not to be more righteous than we are already because we cannot be more righteous if our righteousness comes from God and not from ourselves.

The trouble with some who argue against me in this is that they feel the need to be more righteous according to their own standard of what righteousness should be, or the standards which have been told to them by the mentors or others in their church; but this is a righteousness of their own that comes from the Law. It may be that person's own adaptation of the Law, or their church's adaptation, but it is a self-righteousness that does not come from God. When we, by faith, have that righteousness that comes from God, then we will start practicing the type of righteous conduct that the Lord works in us by The Holy Spirit, and not from any human catalogue of standards or rules, including our self-imposed rules.

This is backed up by the following Scriptures:
Galatians 2:16:
Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Romans 1:17
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
Romans 4:3
For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Romans 3:22
The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Romans 5:17
For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Romans 4:5
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

If we apply the works of the Law to ourselves, it can be defined as our own standard of what we believe in ourselves what is sinful behaviour and what is godly behaviour. This results in us detemining the level of our righteousness based on what we think it is, rather than accepting the righteousness that comes from God by faith. Being justified is exactly the same as being righteous. They came by faith in Christ, not through what we decide is our standard of holiness.

A person would have to be an absolute pelican not to get the message of righteousness by faith and not by works after reading these Scriptures!

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 5, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
Don't you think that this is talking about our positional, justification in Christ?

There is no such thing as positional justification in Christ. We are either justified or not. Justification has nothing to do with who we are or what we do. It is God's declaration that we are not guilty of sin. When a jury acquits a defendant, he is acquitted, period. It is not just positional, it is actual. If you have accepted Christ, you are justified, period.

However, we are both spiritual and carnal.

Not true. The Bible does not teach we are spiritual. That is a New Age concept. We are filled with The Holy Spirit. The work of The Holy Spirit in us does not make us any better than we are already. We are dead, and the live we live is by the faith in Christ. It is Christ in us the hope of glory, not a better self. Paul said, "in me dwells no good thing." He did not see himself as a spiritual person. He depended completely on the Christ within him through the Person of The Holy Spirit.

Also, if we are still carnal, we are dead in our sins. The Scripture says that to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace (Romans 8:6). So a person who is carnally minded, whose behaviour follows his thinking, is still dead in his sins and still needs to be converted to Christ. A truly converted Christian is spiritually minded. His thinking about himself and God are consistent with what God thinks about him. If his thinking is spiritual, then his behaviour will be according to the nature of The Holy Spirit, which is expressed in the fruit of the Spirit. So it is not that we are spiritual people, but we are spiritually minded, and "spiritually" is defined as thinking in accordance with The Holy Spirit, not some New Age type of "spirituality".

Gideons300 · Jul 5, 2015

Oscarr said:
We need to qualify what John says with what Paul says in Philippians 3:9:
And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

So when I say we don't have to hunger after righteousness any longer, it is because we have righteousness from God by faith. Therefore, we do righteousness because we have it from God. It is true that we do hunger after God, but it is not to be more righteous than we are already because we cannot be more righteous if our righteousness comes from God and not from ourselves.

The trouble with some who argue against me in this is that they feel the need to be more righteous according to their own standard of what righteousness should be, or the standards which have been told to them by the mentors or others in their church; but this is a righteousness of their own that comes from the Law. It may be that person's own adaptation of the Law, or their church's adaptation, but it is a self-righteousness that does not come from God. When we, by faith, have that righteousness that comes from God, then we will start practicing the type of righteous conduct that the Lord works in us by The Holy Spirit, and not from any human catalogue of standards or rules, including our self-imposed rules.

This is backed up by the following Scriptures:
Galatians 2:16:
Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Romans 1:17
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
Romans 4:3
For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Romans 3:22
The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Romans 5:17
For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Romans 4:5
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

If we apply the works of the Law to ourselves, it can be defined as our own standard of what we believe in ourselves what is sinful behaviour and what is godly behaviour. This results in us detemining the level of our righteousness based on what we think it is, rather than accepting the righteousness that comes from God by faith. Being justified is exactly the same as being righteous. They came by faith in Christ, not through what we decide is our standard of holiness.

A person would have to be an absolute pelican not to get the message of righteousness by faith and not by works after reading these Scriptures!

I am not in any way arguing with you that we are new creatures,, and that if we are Christ's, the old nature is dead. But we do have a part in all this. We are asked to put that new man on. We are asked to make the tree new. Only then can it bring forth fruit. We have an entire church that, just as predicted, is saying to the world:

"If you want to see Jesus, look at us. We are the people of God. When you look at our lives, you will see what God is capable of doing for you."

The world marvels at our pride, our audacity and our blindness. They call us hypocrites. Instead of admitting that we draw near Him with our lips, but that our lives are OURS, and we will remain lords of our own lives, and that our hearts are far from longing for more of Him, we resist with anything that tputs the gaze on our heart and its kotives. Brother, I am NOT disputing our righteousness. No, it is our hungering for it that we need to examine.

David, operating under the old covenant, mind you, sought God like a man dying of thirst, knowing that His beauty made all else unimportant. Yet here we sit in the current state of an increasingly evil world, and yet if one mentions our lack of burden for the things of God may be evidence that something is badly amiss, they are met with words that sound remarkably like those of the church mentioned in the third chapter of revelations.

If the church was walking in the light that God had blessed us with when the church was birthed, I would simply rejoice. But it is because of the lack of fruits that western Christianity displays that make it more than obvious that something is wrong. The Christians of both the early church and the last days church have both been given the same amount of righteousness. Agreed. But in the church of the book of Acts, they for the most part seemed to be wearing it, displaying it, while far too many today are content to merely lock it up for safe keeping.

In the days to come, as evil waxes worse and worse, it will not be optional that we BE light. Those content to go through the motions will be swept away, so great will the darkness be. How do we prevent such a disaster of eternal consequences? Simple. We draw near to God, hungering for Him to take possession of us more fully than we ever thought possible. God will hear such prayers, and there is nothing satan can do at that point to prevent Him from blessing us with an overcomer's heart.

Many blessings,

Gideon

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 5, 2015

Gideons300 said:
I am not in any way arguing with you that we are new creatures,, and that if we are Christ's, the old nature is dead. But we do have a part in all this. We are asked to put that new man on. We are asked to make the tree new. Only then can it bring forth fruit. We have an entire church that, just as predicted, is saying to the world:

"If you want to see Jesus, look at us. We are the people of God. When you look at our lives, you will see what God is capable of doing for you."

The world marvels at our pride, our audacity and our blindness. They call us hypocrites. Instead of admitting that we draw near Him with our lips, but that our lives are OURS, and we will remain lords of our own lives, and that our hearts are far from longing for more of Him, we resist with anything that tputs the gaze on our heart and its kotives. Brother, I am NOT disputing our righteousness. No, it is our hungering for it that we need to examine.

David, operating under the old covenant, mind you, sought God like a man dying of thirst, knowing that His beauty made all else unimportant. Yet here we sit in the current state of an increasingly evil world, and yet if one mentions our lack of burden for the things of God may be evidence that something is badly amiss, they are met with words that sound remarkably like those of the church mentioned in the third chapter of revelations.

If the church was walking in the light that God had blessed us with when the church was birthed, I would simply rejoice. But it is because of the lack of fruits that western Christianity displays that make it more than obvious that something is wrong. The Christians of both the early church and the last days church have both been given the same amount of righteousness. Agreed. But in the church of the book of Acts, they for the most part seemed to be wearing it, displaying it, while far too many today are content to merely lock it up for safe keeping.

In the days to come, as evil waxes worse and worse, it will not be optional that we BE light. Those content to go through the motions will be swept away, so great will the darkness be. How do we prevent such a disaster of eternal consequences? Simple. We draw near to God, hungering for Him to take possession of us more fully than we ever thought possible. God will hear such prayers, and there is nothing satan can do at that point to prevent Him from blessing us with an overcomer's heart.

Many blessings,

Gideon

I can live with that. We do groan within ourselves because we are new creatures living in a crooked and perverse world. When the church thinks and conducts itself like the world, it does make us dissatisfied, and this gives fuel for prayer and intense discussions with God about how to turn "the Titanic" around.

It is just that I disagree with using what Jesus said about hungering after righteousness, because He was speaking to people still to be converted. So it is the terminology that is used to express our desire to be more Christlike in our conduct and to be able to know God's will more clearly, and to have closer fellowship with Him, that I take issue with sometimes.

Svt4Him · Jul 5, 2015

I'm amazed at how far this misses what the Bible actually says. But just so i understand, blessed or happy are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness is for the unsaved, because EVERYONE knows the unsaved are always thirsting for righteousness...and once you are saved, you are no longer happy or blessed if you hunger and thirst for it. Don't worry about seeking first the kingdom of God, you already have everything....don't study to show yourself approved, again these verses are only for the unsaved. Reminds me of the verse that says if you think you're without sin you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you...don't know why I'm always reminded of that verse, but I am.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 5, 2015

Svt4Him said:
I'm amazed at how far this misses what the Bible actually says. But just so i understand, blessed or happy are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness is for the unsaved, because EVERYONE knows the unsaved are always thirsting for righteousness...and once you are saved, you are no longer happy or blessed if you hunger and thirst for it. Don't worry about seeking first the kingdom of God, you already have everything....don't study to show yourself approved, again these verses are only for the unsaved. Reminds me of the verse that says if you think you're without sin you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you...don't know why I'm always reminded of that verse, but I am.

You are hungry when you don't have food. Once you have a meal you are no longer hungry. Right? So you hunger after righteousness when you don't have it. But once you are righteous you are no longer hungry for it. Right? How many verses do you have to read that say believers are righteous by faith before you are prepared to believe it? If God has made you righteous then what exactly are you hungering for?

Why seek the Kingdom of God when you are already in it? Didn't Jesus say that the Kingdom of God is within every believer? If you are seeking it, have you left it back on the bus home from town?
I wonder if God shakes His head at us sometimes when we cannot believe something so clearly written in the New Testament so that it stands out like the nose on your face?

Of course we study to show ourselves approved of God. It's not because we are unapproved because we are approved in Christ, but we study to learn how it can be shown as a testimony in our lives.

Oh! You missed out the reason why happy are the ones who hunger and thirst after righteousness BECAUSE THEY WILL BE FILLED! Now that puts a whole different meaning on it from what you were trying to say. Am I right, or am I right?

JustHisKid · Jul 5, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
Yes, I said it. Someone has to contend for the gospel.

Then there is no need to sigh.

ToBeLoved · Jul 5, 2015

JustHisKid said:
Then there is no need to sigh.

The *sigh* was because I don't think anyone is listening.

ToBeLoved · Jul 5, 2015

Svt4Him said:
I'm amazed at how far this misses what the Bible actually says. But just so i understand, blessed or happy are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness is for the unsaved, because EVERYONE knows the unsaved are always thirsting for righteousness...and once you are saved, you are no longer happy or blessed if you hunger and thirst for it. Don't worry about seeking first the kingdom of God, you already have everything....don't study to show yourself approved, again these verses are only for the unsaved. Reminds me of the verse that says if you think you're without sin you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you...don't know why I'm always reminded of that verse, but I am.

I don't know how this forum had my name on it that I said that, but I did not. I have no idea who said that.

Discussion Hunger and thirst for righteousness!

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