Australia Enforces $15K Tax Penalty for Parents who Don’t Vaccinate

keith99

sola dosis facit venenum
Jan 16, 2008
22,884
6,556
71
✟318,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
You really might consider a more libertarian mindset ... since we both agree that the risks either way are very small. Really, it's not necessary to enforce conformity for every little thing in life. Just sayin ...

Since the Libertarian view would in general be against giving those benefits at all withholding them from those who do not vaccinate would just be a step in the right direction.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ada Lovelace
Upvote 0

Audacious

Viva La Socialist Revolution
Oct 7, 2010
1,668
1,086
30
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States
✟49,104.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Honestly, if you're going to refuse your children proven ways to prevent disease because you aren't sold on near-universal medical consensus, you're lucky that you aren't being arrested for child abuse and endangerment.

Edit: I mean, can you imagine?
"For those of us not sold on the safety of seatbelts..."
"I'm not sold on the safety of antibiotics."
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

stray bullet

God Made Me A Skeptic
Nov 16, 2002
14,875
906
✟20,457.00
Marital Status
Private
You really might consider a more libertarian mindset ... since we both agree that the risks either way are very small. Really, it's not necessary to enforce conformity for every little thing in life. Just sayin ...

The risks of people dying when you stop vaccinating are astronomical given the hundreds of millions if not billions of people that died from epidemics.

If these people do not want to be part of society, I suggest the government designation zones for them to all live vaccine free and watch their children die when they are all clustered together.
 
Upvote 0

TheDag

I don't like titles
Jan 8, 2005
9,457
267
✟28,794.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
less then the cost in lives and medical bills and work lost among other things due to treatable diseases returning.
but they never went away. Sure they have been eradicated in some countries but we need to consider a few things with that.
1. If a vaccinated person is around enough people with the disease who are not vaccinated then the vaccination will not necessarily protect them so travelling overseas is a problem.
2. The definition of eradicated does not actually mean no new cases like I assumed. I was very surprised when I found that it didn't mean no cases.

We should be careful as we need to know vaccines are safe. What we do know as fact is that hundreds of thousands were given vaccines with unsafe substances in them. Yes they have since been changed but how do we know they are truly safe when some have not been around for that long? If anyone does want to respond to that question I expect them to address the fact that we have found out 20-30 years later that various medicines are unsafe when previously thought safe. Also I expect people to address the fact that peer reviewed studies that have gone on to form the basis of hundreds of other studies have been found to be fradulant 15 years after they were first peer reviewed.

Please don't start with name calling. My son is fully vaccinated as per the requirements of the govt vaccination schedule. Like most people his whooping cough vaccination no longer is that effective as the vaccine for that wanes after 4-5 years. I am not an anti-vaxxer. I have made some decisions knowing there is reason to have doubts about some things and have considered that and gone ahead with vaccinations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Saricharity
Upvote 0

TheDag

I don't like titles
Jan 8, 2005
9,457
267
✟28,794.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Which are like none.
what a load of garbage. Vaccines can cause death in some instances if treatment is not provided quick enough after a reaction. Sure it is a small number but to call that none is misleading at best.

Edit to add: In a later post you claim the risks are small compared to problems with the disease. However that was not your claim. Your claim was that there are no known risks. You never said the known risks were small. I know four people with kids who had life threatening reactions to vaccines. Three of those attend the same school as my child. So hop about laying off on the name calling and just comment on statements made.
 
Upvote 0

TheDag

I don't like titles
Jan 8, 2005
9,457
267
✟28,794.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Edit: I mean, can you imagine?

"I'm not sold on the safety of antibiotics."
Um yeah I can imagine that especially in light of the concern over the over reliance on antibiotics. How superbugs seem to be starting that are resistant to antibiotics. That the medical profession are now saying too many antibiotics is not good for you and does more harm than help. Recently I was not given an antibiotic presecription but my son was for identical health issue. Reason was that I had spent five days in hospital with a almost constant drip of antibiotics.
 
Upvote 0

TheDag

I don't like titles
Jan 8, 2005
9,457
267
✟28,794.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Nevermind a ‘conscientious’ refusal by parents who aren’t sold on the complete safety of vaccines. Now if they fail to immunize their children in Australia, they will no longer be paid either (or all of) the following:

  • A $200-a-week childcare benefit
  • The $7,500-a-year childcare rebate, or
  • The $726 Family Tax Benefit A annual supplement
In a family with two children, this could amount to as much as $30,000.

Australia currently boasts childhood vaccination rates of over 90% for under 5’s, but the number of vaccine refusers is growing steadily.
In reality people are unlikely to get all of those due to means testing and other reasons. So it really would not be that much.

There is already in place measures where if a non-vaccinated child is enrolled in childcare they can be sent home if sick or if they are healthy but other kids are sick. Thing is many places do not enforce that.
 
Upvote 0

Green Sun

404: Star not found
Jun 26, 2015
882
1,329
29
Somewhere
✟45,924.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Thanks for raising the issue of diseases being introduced by illegal immigrants. That's an issue which deserves to be addressed. :oldthumbsup:
It's about as much about illegal immigrants as it is the fact we can have international flights.

Seriously, that's an easy way to spread measles. It can remain in the air for about two hours after an infected person leave the area, and can easily spread from unvaccinated person to unvaccinated person in a closed environment like a plane. Then those infected people can go to other public places, sneeze or cough and fill that area with measles. And since you can go days without showing any symptoms, you can be a carrier and not even know it.

Also, it's not like Disneyland gets tourists from around the world who are in the country legally who may or may not be vaccinated or anything.
 
Upvote 0

Armoured

So is America great again yet?
Supporter
Aug 31, 2013
34,358
14,061
✟234,967.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Nevermind a ‘conscientious’ refusal by parents who aren’t sold on the complete safety of vaccines. Now if they fail to immunize their children in Australia, they will no longer be paid either (or all of) the following:

  • A $200-a-week childcare benefit
  • The $7,500-a-year childcare rebate, or
  • The $726 Family Tax Benefit A annual supplement
In a family with two children, this could amount to as much as $30,000.

Australia currently boasts childhood vaccination rates of over 90% for under 5’s, but the number of vaccine refusers is growing steadily.

Prime Minister Abbott defends his position by stating:

“Parents who vaccinate their children should have confidence that they can take their children to child care without the fear that their children will be at risk of contracting a serious or potentially life-threatening illness because of the conscientious objections of others.”



Read more: http://naturalsociety.com/australia...for-parents-who-dont-vaccinate/#ixzz3etkerFKp
If you want to expose children to the risk of facing diseases without vaccination, I see nothing wrong with imposing a financial penalty.

May be a semantic point, but this isn't a "cost", as such, but rather a removal of benefit. No one is going to be made to pay anything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ada Lovelace
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Audacious

Viva La Socialist Revolution
Oct 7, 2010
1,668
1,086
30
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States
✟49,104.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Um yeah I can imagine that especially in light of the concern over the over reliance on antibiotics. How superbugs seem to be starting that are resistant to antibiotics. That the medical profession are now saying too many antibiotics is not good for you and does more harm than help. Recently I was not given an antibiotic presecription but my son was for identical health issue. Reason was that I had spent five days in hospital with a almost constant drip of antibiotics.
That doesn't make them unsafe; it merely means that we must be judicious in their use. The pre-antibiotic world was one where people died of infections all of the time, and major surgery was difficult or impossible as a result. You could literally get a scratch, have it get infected, and die. Today, the chances of this happening are infinitesimally small; a hundred years ago, not so much.
 
Upvote 0

Cearbhall

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2013
15,118
5,741
United States
✟122,284.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
In a family with two children, this could amount to as much as $30,000.
A small price to pay if you're willing to start an outbreak of a nearly-eradicated disease in a First World country when the solution is available to you.

We just had a young woman die of measles in the U.S. That's ridiculous.
Oh and how is that punative? thats money they arn't giving to you freely that can be going to pay for potential outbreaks you cause.
Exactly. This is the denial of government benefits, not a fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ada Lovelace
Upvote 0

stray bullet

God Made Me A Skeptic
Nov 16, 2002
14,875
906
✟20,457.00
Marital Status
Private
what a load of garbage. Vaccines can cause death in some instances if treatment is not provided quick enough after a reaction. Sure it is a small number but to call that none is misleading at best.

Edit to add: In a later post you claim the risks are small compared to problems with the disease. However that was not your claim. Your claim was that there are no known risks. You never said the known risks were small. I know four people with kids who had life threatening reactions to vaccines. Three of those attend the same school as my child. So hop about laying off on the name calling and just comment on statements made.

You have accused me of doing several things in my posts which I have not done. I can't really continue this since you falsely accuse me of naming calling and ignoring statements made.
 
Upvote 0

ChristsSoldier115

Mabaho na Kuya
Jul 30, 2013
6,765
1,601
The greatest state in the Union: Ohio
✟26,502.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Nevermind a ‘conscientious’ refusal by parents who aren’t sold on the complete safety of vaccines. Now if they fail to immunize their children in Australia, they will no longer be paid either (or all of) the following:

  • A $200-a-week childcare benefit
  • The $7,500-a-year childcare rebate, or
  • The $726 Family Tax Benefit A annual supplement
In a family with two children, this could amount to as much as $30,000.

Australia currently boasts childhood vaccination rates of over 90% for under 5’s, but the number of vaccine refusers is growing steadily.

Prime Minister Abbott defends his position by stating:

“Parents who vaccinate their children should have confidence that they can take their children to child care without the fear that their children will be at risk of contracting a serious or potentially life-threatening illness because of the conscientious objections of others.”



Read more: http://naturalsociety.com/australia...for-parents-who-dont-vaccinate/#ixzz3etkerFKp

The state says vaccinate your kids. you say no. The state say, "fine no free money for you." Not seeing the problem here. If you don't want to listen to your country's mandates, then why does your country have to give you money?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ada Lovelace
Upvote 0

NightHawkeye

Work-in-progress
Supporter
Jul 5, 2010
45,814
10,318
✟781,037.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Since the Libertarian view would in general be against giving those benefits at all withholding them from those who do not vaccinate would just be a step in the right direction.
You have a point. I am generally against such benefits ... though I don't know specifics about such benefits in Australia.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

TheDag

I don't like titles
Jan 8, 2005
9,457
267
✟28,794.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You have accused me of doing several things in my posts which I have not done. I can't really continue this since you falsely accuse me of naming calling and ignoring statements made.
I'd be interested to know exactly what I have falsely accused you of.
Did I change what you said when I quoted your post? Considering there are only four words in it then I find it hard to believe.
Where did I accuse you of ignoring statements made. I pointed out what was said that is all. I will happily apologise publicly here in this thread if I have misquoted you or accused you of ignoring statements that you have not ignored.
 
Upvote 0

TheDag

I don't like titles
Jan 8, 2005
9,457
267
✟28,794.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That doesn't make them unsafe; it merely means that we must be judicious in their use. The pre-antibiotic world was one where people died of infections all of the time, and major surgery was difficult or impossible as a result. You could literally get a scratch, have it get infected, and die. Today, the chances of this happening are infinitesimally small; a hundred years ago, not so much.
very fine line which I'm not sure is there. After all how safe is it if it creates superbugs that we can not stop with medicine? Perhaps people did die from a scratch. I really don't know to be honest but if they did and they no longer do it is not because of antibiotics but rather better knowledge and cleaning the wound and better conditions in which we live. That we use toilet paper instead of our hands and things like that. Sure antibiotics have done good. I'm not denying that but lets not just praise them when massive progress was made when they discovered germs and how they spread and hygiene procedures that were put in place. That played a massive role.
 
Upvote 0

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
8,118
4,528
✟269,140.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
very fine line which I'm not sure is there. After all how safe is it if it creates superbugs that we can not stop with medicine? Perhaps people did die from a scratch. I really don't know to be honest but if they did and they no longer do it is not because of antibiotics but rather better knowledge and cleaning the wound and better conditions in which we live. That we use toilet paper instead of our hands and things like that. Sure antibiotics have done good. I'm not denying that but lets not just praise them when massive progress was made when they discovered germs and how they spread and hygiene procedures that were put in place. That played a massive role.

just to point out, super bugs are no more dangerous now then they were pre antibiotics, they didn't become more deadly, whats happened is due to antibiotic resistance, were just back to what would happen with these diseases pre antibiotics.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Paulos23

Never tell me the odds!
Mar 23, 2005
8,168
4,434
Washington State
✟309,277.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Public health is very much the kind of thing that requires regulations when lives are risked by not upholding certain standards and such then it can be very important. anti vaccination groups have been linked to majority of the cases and outbreaks in the US in the last few years. Again look at California and Washington where two majour outbreaks centered around anti vaccination groups.

We just had our first death in 12 years due to measles in Washington state. Scary stuff. I am making sure my kid is vaccinated.

 
Upvote 0