Natural law of Creation 'and the two shall become one flesh’ No longer valid in US

TheBarrd said:

I do hope that you don't think that this development has robbed me or anyone else of our sleep. Those of us who have been paying attention have been expecting this for some time.
And once again, my King has said that gay sex is an abomination. He repeated this in the New Covenant as well. So, given that He saw fit to warn us several times in the NT, as well as the OT, I'd say our Commander is concerned...
Did you know that, in the Netherlands, where ssm has been legal for around 15 years, the age of consent can be as low as 12 years old?
Just sayin'

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You were the one saying you were afraid. Why are you afraid when nothing is going wrong in Heaven...where your home is and where your heart should be?

I was in the Philippines when that country deposed the dictator Ferdinand Marcos. Even though the country was in rebellion, we were not at all worried. It was pretty interesting to be in the middle of a revolution, but we knew it would not change our mission. We'd continue our mission and when we were completed, we'd go home.

Why be frightened about what pagans are doing? Haters are gonna hate, pagans are gonna page. That's what they do. Why be surprised? Haven't you read Romans 1?

It's not your country, after all. We're just here to make disciples who are going back to our home with us.

TheBarrd said:

Yes...and there is a thread right here at our own beloved CF where people are discussing the next big change...polygamy.
Are group marriages far behind?

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To be real honest, polygamous marriages are much more normal than same sex marriages. History has tried them before many times, including in the Bible. However, this will be the first time in history that same sex marriages have been tried. I'm very surprised that same sex marriages happened before polygamy.

TheBarrd said:

I do hope that you don't think that this development has robbed me or anyone else of our sleep. Those of us who have been paying attention have been expecting this for some time.
And once again, my King has said that gay sex is an abomination. He repeated this in the New Covenant as well. So, given that He saw fit to warn us several times in the NT, as well as the OT, I'd say our Commander is concerned...
Did you know that, in the Netherlands, where ssm has been legal for around 15 years, the age of consent can be as low as 12 years old?
Just sayin'

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It's always been as low as 14 in the US.

RDKirk said:

It's always been as low as 14 in the US.

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Yes. And now NAMBLA can come out into the open...
Moms, do NOT send your sons to Boy Scout Camp!

RDKirk said:

It's always been as low as 14 in the US.

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Actually in all the states of the USA the age of consent is 16 to 18. Maybe you are thinking of Mexico, where it can go as low as 12. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America

RDKirk said:

You were the one saying you were afraid. Why are you afraid when nothing is going wrong in Heaven...where your home is and where your heart should be?

I was in the Philippines when that country deposed the dictator Ferdinand Marcos. Even though the country was in rebellion, we were not at all worried. It was pretty interesting to be in the middle of a revolution, but we knew it would not change our mission. We'd continue our mission and when we were completed, we'd go home.

Why be frightened about what pagans are doing? Haters are gonna hate, pagans are gonna page. That's what they do. Why be surprised? Haven't you read Romans 1?

It's not your country, after all. We're just here to make disciples who are going back to our home with us.

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I'm not afraid in the sense you mean, but I do fear for the future of the church, and of our children.
I love that line, "haters are gonna hate, pagans are gonna page"...that was very clever.
And no, I'm not really surprised. I've been expecting something like this for some time. We already had 30-odd states where ssm was legal, and given the "full faith and credit act," that pretty much made it legal all over the U.S. anyway.
Of course, now that the Feds have stepped in (and I don't like that they over rode the various states to do that...bad precedent, there) everyone who lives in the United States must not only accept it, but we must all alter the ways in which we speak of marriage. There is no more "husband and wife" there are only "partners" or "spouses"...there is no more "Mom and Dad", there are only "parents". Somehow a "Parent business" just doesn't sound the same as a "Mom and Pop business"...just doesn't have the same ring to it.
In a few years, maybe a decade or so at the most, all of us older folks who are so appalled will be gone. The dust will have settled, and these marriages...and who knows, maybe group marriages and maybe even old man young boy marriages will be the norm. Kids will grow up seeing it all around them, and they'll wonder what all the noise was about. And what will become of the voice of God?
Do you not see that this is a death-blow to an already dying church?
My King is on His way...He may be here sooner than we expected.
And will He find faith on the earth??????

Open Heart said:

Actually in all the states of the USA the age of consent is 16 to 18. Maybe you are thinking of Mexico, where it can go as low as 12. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America

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No. The age of consent goes down in most states as low as 14 if the other partner is no older than 18.

TheBarrd said:

I'm not afraid in the sense you mean, but I do fear for the future of the church, and of our children.

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How in Heaven--and I mean that literally-- can you fear for the future of the Church?

What kind of faith do you have to speak of "death-blow to an already dying church?"

I don't know about the Christ you believe in, but my Christ has already overcome the world, and He will come back for his Bride.

Perhaps your problem is that you're focused on America and don't have Christ's view of His entire Body. The Body of Christ isn't just about America and not even just about the West. Some of the most exciting work of the Spirit is going on in places that Christianity is not the default religion.

RDKirk said:

No. The age of consent goes down in most states as low as 14 if the other partner is no older than 18.

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Well of course, because that's not an adult taking advantage, that's two kids doing it,which is different. In California the rule is that it is not a crime if you are not more than three years older then the kid.

Open Heart said:

However, this will be the first time in history that same sex marriages have been tried.

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Depending on your exact definition of "marriage" same sex marriage isn't even new.

http://io9.com/gay-marriage-in-the-year-100-ad-951140108/953627434

Armoured said:

Depending on your exact definition of "marriage" same sex marriage isn't even new.

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It's brand spanking new. Even in Greece, where male/male relationships were considered superior, marriage was still limited to a man and woman.

Open Heart said:

It's brand spanking new. Even in Greece, where male/male relationships were considered superior, marriage was still limited to a man and woman.

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Um, nope.

RDKirk said:

How in Heaven--and I mean that literally-- can you fear for the future of the Church?

What kind of faith do you have to speak of "death-blow to an already dying church?"

I don't know about the Christ you believe in, but my Christ has already overcome the world, and He will come back for his Bride.

Perhaps your problem is that you're focused on America and don't have Christ's view of His entire Body. The Body of Christ isn't just about America and not even just about the West. Some of the most exciting work of the Spirit is going on in places that Christianity is not the default religion.

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Because I've read the Book. I know that it is given unto the Beast to make war with the saints and over come them.
I know that there will be a time when the world will be at war with the church, and, at least for a time, will seem to have won...
Yes, I know the end of the story...and I know, of course, that Heaven will prevail...but there are some tough times ahead.
I believe that the Lord is about to purge His church...judgment begins at the House of the Lord.
And if it begins with us...

RDKirk said:

How in Heaven--and I mean that literally-- can you fear for the future of the Church?

What kind of faith do you have to speak of "death-blow to an already dying church?"

I don't know about the Christ you believe in, but my Christ has already overcome the world, and He will come back for his Bride.

Perhaps your problem is that you're focused on America and don't have Christ's view of His entire Body. The Body of Christ isn't just about America and not even just about the West. Some of the most exciting work of the Spirit is going on in places that Christianity is not the default religion.

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Yes...people are being persecuted, even martyred for their faith. Exciting? That's one word for it, I suppose...
But we know all of this has to happen before Christ comes back for His bride.

I guess I take after my Father....I am not willing that any should perish.
And our time is short...

Here in the West, everybody and his Uncle Joe is a Christian.
But I wonder...
Thinking back to Abraham, daring to talk with God about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah...bargaining for Lot and his family.
Would God find even five righteous in the city?
Evidently, He did not, because He destroyed it.
How many righteous do you suppose He would find in your town?
The question that Jesus asked...When He comes back, will He find faith on earth?...that question haunts my brain...

Armoured said:

Um, nope.

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While it was true that a great many men of ancient Greece kept a catamite, it is also true that they had actual female wives. They were not married to their boys...they were married to women and had children.

Armoured said:

Depending on your exact definition of "marriage" same sex marriage isn't even new.

http://io9.com/gay-marriage-in-the-year-100-ad-951140108/953627434

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Armoured, did you read that link?

"Bolstered by this evidence, Boswell published a book in 1994, the year before his death from AIDS, called Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe. The book comes out next month for the first time in a digital edition. It was an instant lightening rod for controversy, drawing criticism from both the Catholic Church and sex pundit Camille Paglia. Given the Church's present-day views on gay marriage, these detractors argued, Boswell's history seemed like wishful thinking."

LOL!
The book is "out of stock" on Amazon. Popular read, these days, I guess...

TheBarrd said:

While it was true that a great many men of ancient Greece kept a catamite, it is also true that they had actual female wives. They were not married to their boys...they were married to women and had children.

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Trying to summarize the social customs of piece of land that has been occupied for many thousands of years in a single sentence may be insufficient.

TheBarrd said:

Armoured, did you read that link?

"Bolstered by this evidence, Boswell published a book in 1994, the year before his death from AIDS, called Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe. The book comes out next month for the first time in a digital edition. It was an instant lightening rod for controversy, drawing criticism from both the Catholic Church and sex pundit Camille Paglia. Given the Church's present-day views on gay marriage, these detractors argued, Boswell's history seemed like wishful thinking."

LOL!
The book is "out of stock" on Amazon. Popular read, these days, I guess...

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Yes, I read the link.

Armoured said:

Um, nope.

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Please tell me one society that has had gay marriage and supply a source that I can check. Thanks.