Natural law of Creation 'and the two shall become one flesh’ No longer valid in US

TheBarrd

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Gen. 19:1 says he sat in the gate, but doesn't say he was a judge. Verse 9 makes it clear he was not a judge.

2 Peter 2:8 says he was grieved in his heart at what he saw in his surroundings. That's what I am referring to when I say he wanted to get away from Sodom.

You guys can keep trying to correct me, or you can try to get the point.

However I do agree with what you say in the rest of your post, relative to national belonging.

And I like your signature:

Heaven is my nation.
This world is just a dwelling place--


Being too attached to any wordly nation is, for a true believer, simply put sin. It is missing the mark.

So, you don't think that, while we are here, we ought to reflect God in our necessary dealings with the outside world? What did Jesus mean when He told us that we are to be the salt of the earth? What did He mean when He called us to be the light of the world?
Please explain to me...
 
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Hoshiyya

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So, you don't think that, while we are here, we ought to reflect God in our necessary dealings with the outside world? What did Jesus mean when He told us that we are to be the salt of the earth? What did He mean when He called us to be the light of the world?
Please explain to me...

"So, you don't think that, while we are here, we ought to reflect God in our necessary dealings with the outside world?"

Nahhh not at all


(silly answer to silly question)
 
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TheBarrd

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Sure. Go back to my previous posts, and you will find me explaining it.
To tell you the truth, I'm not interested enough to do that.
I do not believe "they're gonna do it anyway" is a good enough excuse to make anything legal. It's a child's argument.
 
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TheBarrd

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"So, you don't think that, while we are here, we ought to reflect God in our necessary dealings with the outside world?"

Nahhh not at all


(silly answer to silly question)

I think that telling people that they ought to put a gag on their religion in public is pretty silly.
Some folks seem to care a whole lot more bout being "politically correct" than they do about God.
 
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Hoshiyya

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Look if you want to spend time fighting to reverse the irreversible, go ahead, but I think God wants something meaningful for me. He doesn't want me spending time on something I cannot alter. Same-sex marriage is not good, but it is a fact, and many more Western nations will soon follow the trend.
 
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Hoshiyya

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I think that telling people that they ought to put a gag on their religion in public is pretty silly.
Some folks seem to care a whole lot more bout being "politically correct" than they do about God.

"I think that telling people that they ought to put a gag on their religion in public is pretty silly."

I agree. I think obeying God is the most important thing. I also think imputing onto others positions they don't hold is intellectually bankrupt.

"Some folks seem to care a whole lot more bout being "politically correct" than they do about God."

Sure. But some folks care more about the battles they can win, than those they cannot win.

Some folks care more about their own households, than the households of complete strangers who don't believe in God anyway.
 
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Hoshiyya

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To tell you the truth, I'm not interested enough to do that.
I do not believe "they're gonna do it anyway" is a good enough excuse to make anything legal. It's a child's argument.

Well you're strawmaning my argument.

A strawman NEVER makes sense, so when you create a strawman version of my argument, don't expect it to make sense.

"I do not believe "they're gonna do it anyway" is a good enough excuse to make anything legal. "

OK I think I can put the finger on what you're missing. I was scratching my head thinking "why is he reacting this way? What did I say to offend him ?" But now I see what the problem is.

Here's the part I feel you're overlooking, maybe it will be more clear:

Neither you nor I run the American government. If the American government wants to say same-sex marriage is legal, that's their decision, not ours. You seem to think you have some control, when you really don't.

The problem is not gay marriage, but thinking you can prevent it, when you CAN'T.
 
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Open Heart

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I do not believe "they're gonna do it anyway" is a good enough excuse to make anything legal. It's a child's argument.
I agree. They're gonna steal anyway. They're gonna murder anyway. Yeah, so?
 
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Hoshiyya

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I agree. They're gonna steal anyway. They're gonna murder anyway. Yeah, so?

The problem is wasting time trying to do someting that cannot be done, in other words, when God likely has something more productive in mind for you to be doing. Maybe you should be helping someone destitute, or someone sick, rather than trying to make homosexuals call their partnership a "union" as opposed to calling their partnership a "marriage", which is literally a war of words. WORDS.

Murder rates go DOWN - they are AFFECTED - by laws that punish murder.
Homosexuals are unaffected by whether their unions are called "partnerships" or "marriages".

But again, the POINT is that we do not run the governments.

Open Heart, are you secretly the POTUS, posting here in disguise ? I doubt it.
So you don't even have the power to prevent homosexual marriages, and that's what I am saying. IF you could actually prevent gay marriage, chances are it would be a good thing to do. But you CAN'T.
 
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Open Heart

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Homosexuals are unaffected by whether their unions are called "partnerships" or "marriages".
I disagree. I think that society will see more homosexual unions because of this. I think that more bisexuals who otherwise might have grown up to have married the opposite sex will now grow up to think that a same sex marriage is just as good and will entertain the possibility and ultimately fall to that temptation. People forget just how many bisexuals there are.
 
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TheBarrd

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Well you're strawmaning my argument.

A strawman NEVER makes sense, so when you create a strawman version of my argument, don't expect it to make sense.

"I do not believe "they're gonna do it anyway" is a good enough excuse to make anything legal. "

OK I think I can put the finger on what you're missing. I was scratching my head thinking "why is he reacting this way? What did I say to offend him ?" But now I see what the problem is.

Here's the part I feel you're overlooking, maybe it will be more clear:

Neither you nor I run the American government. If the American government wants to say same-sex marriage is legal, that's their decision, not ours. You seem to think you have some control, when you really don't.

The problem is not gay marriage, but thinking you can prevent it, when you CAN'T.

Now, this argument I understand.
No, I can't ride into Washington and force the government to change the ruling.
But I can warn people...this is a sin. I can tell people...this country is sinking deeper and deeper into sin.
There are folks out there who think that if the United States says it is okay, it is not a sin. That is not true.
Our society is sick. Only we can diagnose the problem, and only we know the cure.
If I were dying of some strange illness, and you knew what it was and what herbal remedy I could take that would cure me, would you tell me? I hope your answer would be "yes". Even if I hate that medicine, still, it would be your job to tell me where to find it, yes? Or even bring it to me.
I would hope that I would do the same for anyone.
Our society is sick because we have rejected the Great Physician.
Like the Israelites in the time of Samuel, we have kicked God off of the throne. He is no longer welcome in the White House, just as He is no longer welcome in our Court Houses, or in our schools, or in any public area, lest someone be offended.
Do you remember what happened to Israel after they rejected God from being King over them? It's a sad, sad story...
It took what, about eighty years or so for them to tear the country apart? Let's see...will we last as long as they did? We kicked God out of our schools in 1962, I think it was...and look at the mess we've made of our nation since!
I doubt I'll be here to see it...I am 65 with some serious health issues. But then again, at the rate it's going, maybe I will...and it scares me down to my wrinkled little toes...
 
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TheBarrd

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I disagree. I think that society will see more homosexual unions because of this. I think that more bisexuals who otherwise might have grown up to have married the opposite sex will now grow up to think that a same sex marriage is just as good and will entertain the possibility and ultimately fall to that temptation. People forget just how many bisexuals there are.
I agree. Pushing homosexuality has become a CAUSE...and we all know how teenagers love to fight for a cause, especially if it upsets the older generations. Heck, I'm a part of the Hippie generation...I fought for civil rights. As a pretty young white girl, it drove my parents and my grandparents crazy. I also protested the Viet Nam war...and to my great surprise, my Dad, a decorated WWII war hero, with a box full of medals, including the purple heart, agreed with me!
Yes, we have been seeing a boatload more homosexuals in the past decade or so, and we will keep seeing more and more of them. Is this because they are "finally" coming out of the closet? LOL, no...I don't think so.

BTW...have you ever wondered what ELSE might be lurking in that closet????
Now, THAT does frighten me!!
 
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RDKirk

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.have you ever wondered what ELSE might be lurking in that closet????
Now, THAT does frighten me!!

The most frequent of the Lord's commands is: "Fear not." He gives that command 27 times in the NT.

Do you believe the Lord our Commander has a plan? Do you think His plan has been thwarted? When Jesus said, "...the Father knows the day and the hour," do you think that day and hour suffered a setback?

There was an instance when I was on active duty that a major problem came up that I took to my commander. He heard me out, then grinned. "You're not worried about that, are you? That doesn't change our mission. We'll keep doing the same thing tomorrow we did yesterday."

Lesson learned: If the commander isn't worried, I'm not going to worry. That's why David could say:

In peace I will lie down and sleep, for you alone, LORD, make me dwell in safety. -- Psalm 4
 
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TheBarrd

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The most frequent of the Lord's commands is: "Fear not." He gives that command 27 times in the NT.

Do you believe the Lord our Commander has a plan? Do you think His plan has been thwarted? When Jesus said, "...the Father knows the day and the hour," do you think that day and hour suffered a setback?

There was an instance when I was on active duty that a major problem came up that I took to my commander. He heard me out, then grinned. "You're not worried about that, are you? That doesn't change our mission. We'll keep doing the same thing tomorrow we did yesterday."

Lesson learned: If the commander isn't worried, I'm not going to worry. That's why David could say:

In peace I will lie down and sleep, for you alone, LORD, make me dwell in safety. -- Psalm 4
I do hope that you don't think that this development has robbed me or anyone else of our sleep. Those of us who have been paying attention have been expecting this for some time.
And once again, my King has said that gay sex is an abomination. He repeated this in the New Covenant as well. So, given that He saw fit to warn us several times in the NT, as well as the OT, I'd say our Commander is concerned...
Did you know that, in the Netherlands, where ssm has been legal for around 15 years, the age of consent can be as low as 12 years old?
Just sayin'
 
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TheBarrd

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Well, we have the membership of NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association) for pedophiles.
Yes...and there is a thread right here at our own beloved CF where people are discussing the next big change...polygamy.
Are group marriages far behind?
 
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RDKirk

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So, you don't think that, while we are here, we ought to reflect God in our necessary dealings with the outside world? What did Jesus mean when He told us that we are to be the salt of the earth? What did He mean when He called us to be the light of the world?
Please explain to me...

1 Peter lays that out in detail.

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood,
a holy nation, a people for His possession...
Once you were not a people,
but now you are God’s people;
you had not received mercy,
but now you have received mercy.


This is the "team speech" that anyone who has been on a sports team or in the military has heard. Peter starts out speaking to "to the temporary residents dispersed in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia," and goes through a chapter explaining how the Body of Christ forms a unique house that rests on a fundamentally different foundation from any other nation in the world.

The word "nation" here is the Greek ethnos, from which we get "ethnic group." The Body of Christ is an ethnic group, a nation in itself. The word "people" here is the Greek laos, which means "a people, people group, tribe, nation, all those who are of the same stock and language."

The Body of Christ is an embassy to the nations of the world. We operate as "aliens," "strangers and temporary residents."
Dear friends, I urge you as strangers and temporary residents to abstain from fleshly desires that war against you. Conduct yourselves honorably among the other nations, so that in a case where they speak against you as those who do what is evil, they will, by observing your good works, glorify God on the day of visitation.

Peter tells us that the morals of our ethnic group are different from the morals of the natives around us:

They are surprised that you don’t plunge with them into the same flood of wild living—and they slander you.

The major point Peter hammers and hammers is that the Body of Christ is a wholly separate nation in every way, only temporarily deployed (which diaspora in verse 1:1 also means) to various nations to carry out a mission of temporary duration...then we're going home.

What is that mission? The mission of the Body of Christ has never changed:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.

The word "nations" here is the same ethnos as in 1 Peter. We see, then, that the Body of Christ is an ethnic group--it's own nation--with a mission among the nations of the world to make disciples from those nations into our own nation.

There is one mission, but each one of us is assigned a fragment of that mission. Every single one of us has a task toward the mission to accomplish every day. Just like in the military, one person's task toward the mission differs from another person's task.

For instance, a US Navy aircraft carrier may have a crew of 5,000 sailors. Although the mission of the aircraft carrier is to use airpower to carry war to the enemy, of those 5,000 sailors only about 75 actually fly. The other 4,925 sailors never get into an airplane. Some of those sailors do nothing but laundry. That's all they do, ever day, is wash underwear, sheets, and dungarees. Yet, the captain will tell you those men who do nothing but laundry are vital to making sure the 75 who fly can fly.

In the same way, the Body of Christ has some who are evangelists, some who are teachers, some who are encourages, some who are administrators...yet every one is vital to the Body performing its mission.

The problem is that too many Christians--especially in America--have gotten the idea that they're just supposed to be going through life, la-de-da, being "good Christians," going to church on Sundays and not doing any "sins."

Far from it. We each have something we should be doing every day to forward the mission, and when we go to bed each night we ought to know what we did for the mission that day.
 
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