What the ruling on Gay marriage is REALLY about

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Hoshiyya

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It would take the government stamp of approval off of the unions. They no longer teach tolerance of homosexuals and cross-dressers in school today (live and let live). They teach acceptance of them as normal lifestyles, which they are certainly not.

Who cares what some atheists in the governments approve of ?

Apropos that: they don't approve of Torah, so should I picket the government buildings until they start keeping Shabbat ?

Since (A) the legal status of SS marriage makes no difference one way or the other in this ungodly world, and since (B) it is already impossible to reverse it, I don't see the point of fighting it.

Even if we managed to make it illegal, so what ?
They would still be homosexuals, practicing homosexuality. The legal status of it makes no actual, physical, real, tangible difference.
 
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JeffTheLearner

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Heraldic Language.
I Thought the Silver Falcon caused the split in the Black Double headed phoenix?
Pretty sure the coat of arms has been established already.
Nope ...their 3 relics are still there for them to accept if they submit and knell before the Roman High Priest for the "Title." Also their orders of knighthood are still very strong within the Roman State Church, and are also replicated within the powers of "secular" government in the Scottish Rite.

But outside the arms when the overthrow of Roman State Church bonds by the monarchs wishing to elect their own secret Augustus of the "New Order" ...it is obvious within the dialogue between Napoleon and King Joseph of Spain (the other head of that pheonix within the house of Lorraine) through their letters to each other.

...but speculation is speculation, we are just working to find the context of biblical Rome still in power till the time that rock comes that was not cut by the hands of man to dash it all to dust.

Though if you search hard enough The Holy Roman Empire is no different from the old Roman Empire just the Religious occult rite is replaced with a "christian" facade ...vestal virgin's and all, the senate are Monarchs, and the house of plebs the high knights of nobilty and lords ...as the underclasses enjoy the hidden slavery of feudalism.

...its no surprise that Genghis Khan told the Roman High Priest "You must say with a sincere heart: "We will be your subjects; we will give you our strength". You must in person come with YOUR KINGS, all together, without exception, to render us service and pay us homage. Only then will we acknowledge your submission. And if you do not follow the order of God, and go against our orders, we will know you as our enemy." ~(Letter from Gukuk to Pope Innocent IV, 1246)
 
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pat34lee

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Who cares what some atheists in the governments approve of ?

Apropos that: they don't approve of Torah, so should I picket the government buildings until they start keeping Shabbat ?

Since (A) the legal status of SS marriage makes no difference one way or the other in this ungodly world, and since (B) it is already impossible to reverse it, I don't see the point of fighting it.

Even if we managed to make it illegal, so what ?
They would still be homosexuals, practicing homosexuality. The legal status of it makes no actual, physical, real, tangible difference.

Then you give up and may as well never leave your home. That is not why we were called. Them is us.
 
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Hoshiyya

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Then you give up and may as well never leave your home. That is not why we were called. Them is us.

I don't see how you reached that conclusion. IF you want me to understand how you reached that conclusion, you're going to have to put it into words. You didn't even make clear what part of my post, if any, you were adressing.

If Tim and Jim practice homosexuality, that's no skin off my back. Not that I am able to prevent them from being homosexual anyway.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to force someone to love God, and only those who TRULY LOVE him can really serve him. Even if Tim and Jim, as atheists, sat in their homes knitting sweaters, they would still be displeasing to God.

When you leave your home you're bound to encounter sin, so there's nothing new there.
 
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JeffTheLearner

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Sorry, was too vague ...here is the rest of the story:

"Said Madame Bertrand, " Napoleon's family is related to all the reigning families in Europe, even to that of Prussia, for some time back a niece of Murat's married a Prince of Hohenzollem." Young Napoleon, who, from his tender age, has excited so much the attention of nations, now six years old, is stated to be a child particularly endowed by nature, both with beauty, amiable disposition, and powers of intellect. Grandson of the Emperor of Austria, great-grandson of Ferdinand of Naples, conse- quently descended from both the Houses of Lorraine and Bourbon ; it is confidently believed, that he would hereafter be the object of hopes both to the French and Italian nations, even if he had not a lawful title to the imperial inheritance, transferred to him by his father, in virtue of the power vested in him by the constitution." ~(Napoleon in his own defence: being a reprint of certain letters, By Clement King Shorter pg80-81)
 
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Open Heart

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Heraldic Language.
I Thought the Silver Falcon caused the split in the Black Double headed phoenix?
Pretty sure the coat of arms has been established already.
I certainly have no idea what any of this heraldic language, silver falcons, and black double headed phoenixes are all about. Would you like to explain to me what all this mysterious mumbo jumbo refers to? thanks.
 
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pinacled

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I certainly have no idea what any of this heraldic language, silver falcons, and black double headed phoenixes are all about. Would you like to explain to me what all this mysterious mumbo jumbo refers to? thanks.
Simply a Lineage. Titles for the ruling class in History. A family Crest. The Name is carried down from the Fathers. Rome conquered the British Isles and so forth and set up ruling states and set up families as lords and so on. Religion was part of the state system. History, family tree and so on. Alot of reading.
The rest is conjecture.
I venture to guess. Starting with Rome as the Beast. And that from one of its Lineage the Antichrist will come.
 
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Open Heart

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Simply a Lineage. Titles for the ruling class in History. A family Crest. The Name is carried down from the Fathers. Rome conquered the British Isles and so forth and set up ruling states and set up families as lords and so on. Religion was part of the state system. History, family tree and so on. Alot of reading.
The rest is conjecture.
I venture to guess. Starting with Rome as the Beast. And that from one of its Lineage the Antichrist will come.
I don't remember Rome conquering England. It tried. It got so far as Hadrian's wall. But ultimately it gave up and went home.

As a Partial Preterist, I would agree that ancient Rome was Babylon. Nero was the Anti-Christ of Revelation. John wrote to the Christians of that day, "the tribulations are terrible and things look hopeless, but look,if you pull back the veil, you see that God is still in charge. JEsus wins!" This message of hope continues to be important to each new generation of persecuted Christians.
 
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pat34lee

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I don't see how you reached that conclusion. IF you want me to understand how you reached that conclusion, you're going to have to put it into words. You didn't even make clear what part of my post, if any, you were adressing.

"Since (A) the legal status of SS marriage makes no difference one way or the other in this ungodly world, and since (B) it is already impossible to reverse it, I don't see the point of fighting it."

Everything we do makes a difference, and nothing is impossible to Yahweh. The states and Congress can overrule the courts. All it takes is enough guts and people backing them.
 
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Open Heart

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Everything we do makes a difference, and nothing is impossible to Yahweh. The states and Congress can overrule the courts. All it takes is enough guts and people backing them.
The Supreme Court interprets the Constitution, the highest law in the land. In order to overrule the Supreme Court, it would literally take a Constitutional Amendment, which is next to impossible. Various other ideas for amendments have been floating around in recent decades, all to no avail. It would take the ratification of 38 states to pass any amendment.

Sometimes God simply gives you the grace to live within a heathen state.
 
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pat34lee

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The Supreme Court interprets the Constitution, the highest law in the land. In order to overrule the Supreme Court, it would literally take a Constitutional Amendment, which is next to impossible. Various other ideas for amendments have been floating around in recent decades, all to no avail. It would take the ratification of 38 states to pass any amendment.

Sometimes God simply gives you the grace to live within a heathen state.

All it takes is either Congress passing a "one man one woman" marriage law that states "this is non-reviewable by the SC" or if many states refuse to implement the law. Failing that, if one or more justices could be replaced with more conservative judges, the SC itself can overturn the decision.

It is like anything else, it takes enough people with backbone to accomplish. One or two states could be blackmailed or bought off, but they can't browbeat a dozen or two dozen states into submission.
 
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Open Heart

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All it takes is either Congress passing a "one man one woman" marriage law that states "this is non-reviewable by the SC" or if many states refuse to implement the law.
This is unlawful. There is no such thing as a law passed that the SC cannot review to see if it is constitutional. And for states to refuse to comply with the Supreme Court ruling? That would be anarchy--a state considerably worse than having same sex marriages.


Failing that, if one or more justices could be replaced with more conservative judges, the SC itself can overturn the decision.
Theoretically, I guess. Has it ever actually happened that the Supreme Court has reversed itself?
 
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pat34lee

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This is unlawful. There is no such thing as a law passed that the SC cannot review to see if it is constitutional. And for states to refuse to comply with the Supreme Court ruling? That would be anarchy--a state considerably worse than having same sex marriages.

http://blogs.kentlaw.iit.edu/iscotus/defying-federal-courts/

When the government oversteps its authority, it is not optional, but necessary that we defy them. Remember that slavery and segregation were legal and upheld by the Supreme Court until they were outlawed.
 
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BukiRob

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While I don't support homosexuality or homosexual marriage, I am a realist. My assessment is that preventing homosexuals from marrying is probably not possible at this point in the Western world.

And the thing is, even IF one could prevent homosexuals from marrying - what would that even accomplish ?
They would still be homosexuals. They would still be practicing homosexuality.


I agree. At the end of the day the wages of sin is death. The end result is the same for Homosexuality as it is for any of the other forms of sin that occur.

The issue/concern I have is that this is NOT the ultimate goal of their movement but rather the thing that allows them to accomplish what they really want. Legal acceptance. In order for this to occur, any speech particularly out of a pulpit against the homosexual lifestyle will be considered hate speech and the ultimate end point is America declaring the bible as a form of hate speech....

The very idea that this country would ever go there is so foreign to me that I cant believe that it is a very real possiblity
 
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BukiRob

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Everything we do makes a difference, and nothing is impossible to Yahweh. The states and Congress can overrule the courts. All it takes is enough guts and people backing them.


At this point it would take a constitutional amendment and that is not going to happen with the number of democrat seats in the senate. States CAN NOT over ride a SCOTUS decision.
 
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BukiRob

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This is unlawful. There is no such thing as a law passed that the SC cannot review to see if it is constitutional. And for states to refuse to comply with the Supreme Court ruling? That would be anarchy--a state considerably worse than having same sex marriages.


Theoretically, I guess. Has it ever actually happened that the Supreme Court has reversed itself?

SCOTUS can NOT over ride an amendment to the constitution. The SCOTUS has limits on what even it can over turn
 
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pat34lee

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At this point it would take a constitutional amendment and that is not going to happen with the number of democrat seats in the senate. States CAN NOT over ride a SCOTUS decision.

How do you think segregation was ended? People defied the law and they protested the law. Too many people to lock up and too many to ignore. If only they had applied such effort to ending abortion, that could have been stopped before millions of babies died.
 
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Armoured

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How do you think segregation was ended? People defied the law and they protested the law. Too many people to lock up and too many to ignore. If only they had applied such effort to ending abortion, that could have been stopped before millions of babies died.
How exactly would you suggest people ignore same sex marriage or abortion legislation? Other than not having one?
 
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