Let's Talk Eschatology

cloudyday2 said:

I wonder what percentage actually believe in the second coming and what percentage are only saying a creed? The second coming was very important to early Christianity, and now it has almost become vestigial - at least that's how it was for me when I was a Christian. Of course I know that many Christians are very hopeful about a second coming.

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1 Peter 1:13
13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

It is a huge focus for many evangelicals and for my denomination which is the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world according to an article by Christianity Today in Feb of this year.

The literal second coming of Rev 19
The literal millennium of Rev 20
The literal lake of fire at the end of Rev 20
The literal earth made new of Rev 21.

the literal return of Christ to take the saints to heaven - of John 14:1-3 and 1Thess 4.

1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

BobRyan said:

Post Trib - Pre-Mill is what we find in Matt 24 "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... He will gather His elect" and in Rev 19 and 20 where the FIRST resurrection -- is the resurrection of the saints - and happens at the Rev 19 second coming event.

So then the John 14 promise to take the saints to heaven - is fulfilled at the Rev 19 2nd coming event.

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And of course... post-trib... pre-mill... literal 2nd coming.

Since Jesus was Jewish as were the Apostles and since Christianity sprang from that group, one should expect to find elements of Jewish eschatology in the New Testament, and in fact we do.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10840-millennium

I believe in pre-Millenialism. I believe it is the position with the greatest Biblical evidence.

smaneck said:

I believe pre-millenialism begins with William Miller who predicted that Christ would return in 1844, but there is an early form of dispensationalism with Joachim D'Fiora who held that the Age of the Spirit would begin in 1260.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_of_Fiore
What is interesting from a Baha'i perspective is that the year 1844 in the Christian calendar coincides with 1260 in the Muslim calendar. That's the year our own religion was born.

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Yes, 1260 (in varying permutations) appears as a prophetic number seven times in the Bible (twice in Daniel, five times in Revelation).

light upon light said:

Yes, 1260 (in varying permutations) appears as a prophetic number seven times in the Bible (twice in Daniel, five times in Revelation).

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More times than that in Revelation, actually. The references to 42 months and to 3 1/2 years all work out to the number 1260 as well. IMO William Miller was closer to the truth than he knew.

smaneck said:

More times than that in Revelation, actually. The references to 42 months and to 3 1/2 years all work out to the number 1260 as well. IMO William Miller was closer to the truth than he knew.

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I may have missed some.

"Time, times and a dividing of times" or "time, times and half a time" as well ( = 3 1/2 (years) )

deleted my post, because it might seem disrespectful.

Supreme said:

I believe in pre-Millenialism. I believe it is the position with the greatest Biblical evidence.

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Pre-mill... post trib.

Someone has mentioned William Miller (premill)

Walter Martin makes the case in "Kingdom of the Cults" that premill was incredibly unpopular at the time Miller was preaching it.

BobRyan said:

Walter Martin makes the case in "Kingdom of the Cults" that premill was incredibly unpopular at the time Miller was preaching it.

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History Channel has an excellent program on the Antichrist. One of the things it stresses is just how much of American evangelical eschatology can be traced back to William Miller.

That is true - however at the same time scholars and historians agree that the historicist model was the one used by the Protestant reformers - and Miller also accepted that.