It's so wrong...

Armoured said:

And yet, the longitudinal studies conducted by dedicated researchers diagree with your ad hoc off the cuff claim.

Now, who should we believe...?

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God when he says it's a vile abomination. Of course, you could always take some atheist researcher's opinion on it instead.

Armoured said:

Of course not. People call them unnatural, post false information about them, claim they're trying to "destroy marriage/family/America/Christianity" fixate on the distaste they feel for male-male anal sex, and accuse them of being paedophiles, advocate imprisoning and/or psychotherapy to change them, but no one demeans them.

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It is the rare person who demeans the SSA folk. Many of the strongest proponents of traditional marriage are SSA folk in fact.

LivingWordUnity said:

Pope Benedict XVI knew it would come to overt and universal persecution. That's why he called relativism a dogma and a dictatorship and the most profound difficulty of our age. The Church is now getting spat on just as people spat on Jesus.

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Or perhaps...

The Church, and Christians in general, need to re-examine how they treat non-Christians and not act like the Pharisees and other religious leaders as described in the bible.

Red Fox said:

Or perhaps...

The Church, and Christians in general, need to re-examine how they treat non-Christians and not act like the Pharisees and other religious leaders as described in the bible.

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Would you call Pope Francis a Pharisee? He doesn't approve of so-called "same-sex marriage" either. Also, the Pharisees were the ones who were doing the spitting, and they were spitting on Jesus because they didn't like His message. I oppose redefining marriage because I know that Jesus would oppose it. And Jesus equates the Church to Himself, so spitting on the Church is the same as spitting on Jesus. You are shooting the messenger.

Mikhael Disciple of Christ said:

God when he says it's a vile abomination. Of course, you could always take some atheist researcher's opinion on it instead.

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God says (arguably) that homosexual activity is an abomination. I'm unaware of Him saying anything about homosexual parenting.

SolomonVII said:

It is the rare person who demeans the SSA folk. Many of the strongest proponents of traditional marriage are SSA folk in fact.

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War is Peace, Hate is Love!

Mikhael Disciple of Christ said:

God when he says it's a vile abomination. Of course, you could always take some atheist researcher's opinion on it instead.

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You can take the view that that extends to same-sex parenting. But it's interesting to note that there is no objective evidence of worse outcomes for the children of such. And it's therefore a problem when Christians falsely claim there is.

LivingWordUnity said:

Would you call Pope Francis a Pharisee?

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No, I was referring to all the Christians who are arrogant, self-righteous, judgmental, obnoxious and hateful toward non-Christians, all the while claiming to follow Christ and His teachings. I know nothing about the man other than he is the leader of the Catholic Church, so I'm unaware if Pope Francis falls into this category or not.

LivingWordUnity said:

He doesn't approve of so-called "same-sex marriage" either.

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He has ever right to do so, however, no Christian, no matter who they are or claim to be, has the right to dictate how other people, particularly non-Christians, can live their own lives and what it is they can believe in or not believe in.

LivingWordUnity said:

Also, the Pharisees were the ones who were doing the spitting, and they were spitting on Jesus because they didn't like His message.

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The Pharisees, if I recall correctly, were the ones who were looking down on Jesus for associating with unsavory sinners and condemning Him for it.

Perhaps reading Luke 18:11 will give you a clue to what I'm referring to.

LivingWordUnity said:

I oppose redefining marriage because I know that Jesus would oppose it.

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Perhaps He would, but neither you or other Christians are Him nor do the vast majority of Christians, in my personal experience, behave or act the way He did or treat non-Christians with the kind of love that He commanded His followers to have, not only for unbelievers, but for each other.

LivingWordUnity said:

And Jesus equates the Church to Himself, so spitting on the Church is the same as spitting on Jesus. You are shooting the messenger.

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I'm more within my right to question the messenger and his motives and call him out when he is clearly betraying the very message he is carrying.

Armoured said:

War is Peace, Hate is Love!

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The Lord God of Hosts is Love, and he gives us our commandments not for the sake of the Law, but for our sake, and for our peace of mind.

Red Fox said:

He has ever right to do so, however, no Christian, no matter who they are or claim to be, has the right to dictate how other people, particularly non-Christians, can live their own lives and what it is they can believe in or not believe in.

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Who is dictating to who? It's not the Christians doing the dictating since we have obviously lost the culture war. We are the ones who have been getting sued and put out of business left and right. And now we're the ones getting spat on.

LivingWordUnity said:

Who is dictating to who? It's not the Christians doing the dictating since we have obviously lost the culture war.

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I can only say that as a Native American, I'm all for the end of religious oppression, meddling or influences, whether it's in government, in people's personal lives or in society as a whole. I'm also for the end of religious people hiding behind their "religious freedoms" to be judgmental, hypocritical bigots toward people they don't like or approve of.

LivingWordUnity said:

We are the ones who have been getting sued and put out of business left and right. And now we're the ones getting spat on.

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I would say bad karma, but from a Christian perspective, it could be called finally reaping what's been sown for hundreds of years.

The world will be very surprised when God comes to judge it. The first will be last, and the last will be first.

LivingWordUnity said:

The world will be very surprised when God comes to judge it. The first will be last, and the last will be first.

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I honestly think the people who will be most surprised about God's judgments are the ones who claimed to follow Him.

In fact, Jesus Himself talked about that. You can read what He said about this very issue in Matthew 7:21-23.

Red Fox said:

I honestly think the people who will be most surprised about God's judgments are the ones who claimed to follow Him.

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Scripture describes who the true followers are.

LivingWordUnity said:

Scripture describes who the true followers are.

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Yes, it does, and the vast majority of the Christians I have met over the span of my lifetime, fail miserably to meet that criteria.

It's rather ironic really, because each one of those Christians would all testify to their deaths that they love God and they do follow His commandments.

Red Fox said:

Yes, it does, and the vast majority of the Christians I have met over the span of my lifetime, fail miserably to meet that criteria.

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Do you think that the pagans do better than the Christians when it comes to loving their enemies?

LivingWordUnity said:

Do you think that the pagans do better than the Christians when it comes to loving their enemies?

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Well, based on my personal experiences, having known several pagans in my lifetime and having a few pagan friends, and then comparing them to the majority of Christians I have met in my lifetime, I would have to say yes to your question. I have never come across a pagan who has ever mistreated me, degraded me, or threatened my life before. And to be honest, I would be much more willing to trust a pagan with my life than I would someone that I found out was Christian. I would definitely be more willing to trust the pagan more than I would the Christian, based solely on my life's personal experiences with Christians over the years.

Red Fox said:

Well, based on my personal experiences, having known several pagans in my lifetime and having a few pagan friends, and then comparing them to the majority of Christians I have met in my lifetime, I would have to say yes to your question. I have never come across a pagan who has ever mistreated me, degraded me, or threatened my life before. And to be honest, I would be much more willing to trust a pagan with my life then I would someone that I found out was Christian. I would definitely trust the pagan more than I would the Christian, based solely on my life's personal experiences with Christians.

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I have seen many times when a Christian family loses someone to a drunk driver or because of a murder, and they forgive the one who did it. There are many public examples of it in news stories. The most recent example was the Christians who forgave the guy who killed people in their Christian congregation in SC. But I have never seen a pagan forgive their enemy. If I missed it, can you provide the news story of a pagan family who forgave the one who murdered their loved one?

LivingWordUnity said:

I have seen many times when a Christian family loses someone to a drunk driver or because of a murder, and they forgive the one who did it. There are many public examples of it in news stories. The most recent example was the Christians who forgave the guy who killed people in their Christian congregation in SC. But I have never seen a pagan forgive their enemy. If I missed it, can you provide the news story of a pagan family who forgave the one who murdered their loved one?

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I said based on my personal experiences. I thought I was perfectly clear on that point. And I don't believe, not for a second, that Christians are somehow morally superior or more righteous than someone who isn't a Christian. As I have seen, Christians can be just as vile, just as violent, just as nasty and evil as any non-Christian can be.