Daniel's 70 Week Prophecy Explained (No Future 7 Year Tribulation, Only 3.5 Year Great Tribulation)

Straightshot said:

Correct Doug

Zechariah is hands down direct and literal related to the unfulfilled portion of of the prophetic word .... not to be suppressed with metaphor and allegory

All fulfilled prophecy was fulfilled .... literally by the historical accounts

.... and so will the balance be 100%

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No you misunderstood me, I am not making allegories or metaphors, please read post #160.

Thanks

Douggg said:

Jesus said those words - "it is finished" on the cross, then dismissed his spirit.

The resurrection, without which there is no hope, came after the cross - so "your" proclamation "all fulfilled" misrepresents what Jesus said.

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Offcourse the resurrection came after the cross three days later as scripture states. I never mentioned it came at that point. The finished proclamation is that the old covenant was finished and at that very moment the mosaic curses were lifted from the believers in Christ Jesus.

"The finished proclamation is that the old covenant was finished"

Nay ..... His finished work on the cross provides His offer of Salvation .... period

You go further and tell that He is finished with His future prophetic word about things to come including His own involvement and consummation intents which are to be fulfilled to the letter

He is not finished with His nation of Israel .... and He has not put all of His enemies under His feet .... and He is not ruling this present lost world of 8 billion humans upon which He will bring unprecedented judgment for those that reject and do not believe the truth about Him

But these things He will do .... when He is ready

/

Straightshot said:

"The finished proclamation is that the old covenant was finished"

Nay ..... His finished work on the cross provides His offer of Salvation .... period

You go further and tell that He is finished with His future prophetic word about things to come including His own involvement and consummation intents which are to be fulfilled to the letter

He is not finished with His nation of Israel .... and He has not put all of His enemies under His feet .... and He is not ruling this present lost world of 8 billion humans upon which He will bring unprecedented judgment for those that reject and do not believe the truth about Him

But these things He will do .... when He is ready

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After the cross there can never be two agreements/covenants running together. The new and the old covenant are diametric opposites and can never be both on offer.

Just like when an insurance company originally puts out a product disclosure statement and later when making drastic changes to its policies, it comes out with a totally new product disclosure statement. The date at which the new product disclosure statement is issued is when the previous one is made legally obsolete.

In the same way covenants which are contractual agreements between God and man are made obsolete, depending on what changes God has made to his policy of salvation on offer. The Son coming and being offered as a sacrifice made obsolete the covenant contract of death under the mosaic curses and you are in error to say that God is holding in his had two separate contracts, that is, one of the Son and another of the curses, this mere thought is sacrilege.

Isaiah 28:16-18
16Therefore thus says the Lord GOD,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone,
A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed.
He who believ
18“Your covenant with death will be canceled,
And your pact with Sheol will not stand;
When the overwhelming scourge passes through,
Then you become its trampling place.

When God brings forth the cornerstone Christ Jesus and lays it as the foundational condition of his covenant agreement, God declares that the old covenant agreement of death will be cancelled.

Again it is sacrilege to think that God has two diametrically opposite contracts on offer. There is no old covenant agreement, it had been made obsolete on the cross when Jesus declare it is finished.

Your are stuck in you dual covenant evaluation ideas

There is no truth to this diversion

Israel as a nation is one thing .... the Lord's salvation for all individuals apart from national identity is another thing

Both are biblical from Genesis to Revelation and sanctioned by the Lord

Straightshot said:

Your are stuck in you dual covenant evaluation ideas

There is no truth to this diversion

Israel as a nation is one thing .... the Lord's salvation for all individuals apart from national identity is another thing

Both are biblical from Genesis to Revelation and sanctioned by the Lord

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You ignored what I said, God is not in the business of making multiple offers when it comes to salvation. A covenant is a contractual agreement that reconciles man to God after the fall of man in the Garden of Eden when God said to Eve that her seed will crush the head of the serpent and the serpent will wound his heel.

There are no multiple offers for the salvation of man. A covenant is not an agreement made by man to God as you are making it out to be, an agreement is a contract that God has made with man and when he has a better agreement on offer the old one is ripped up and toosed away.

/

Berean777 said:

Offcourse the resurrection came after the cross three days later as scripture states. I never mentioned it came at that point. The finished proclamation is that the old covenant was finished and at that very moment the mosaic curses were lifted from the believers in Christ Jesus.

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Was Abraham under the old covenant?

Douggg said:

Was Abraham under the old covenant?

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Yes. But that was the only contractual agreement before it was superseded by the new own with the blood of the Son.

/

"Psalms 2 is noted as happened already."


Psalms 2 is still pending as we speak .... never happened

This future event is the beginning of the coming Day of the Lord [Jude 1:14-15; Revelation 6:12-17]

/

Berean777 said:

Yes. But that was the only contractual agreement before it was superseded by the new own with the blood of the Son.

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No, Abraham was not under the old covenant. Abraham was born many hundreds of years before the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Which in Hebrews that whole point is made of Abraham's covenant, a separate covenant, was based on Abraham's faith, not his works.

The point I making is Jesus's death on the cross is not the nailing of the old covenant to the cross (as you had wrote), but our sins were bore by Jesus, which includes Abraham's and everyone not involved in the old covenant - which none of us gentiles were ever a part of.

The new covenant as it pertains to them of the old covenant (literal Israel) is that as it spread fades away the old covenant which is based upon an external relationship with God to an internal relationship with God by the Holy Spirit indwelling the heart of the believer. To us, it is the gospel, God's mercy and gift of salvation, but not technically a new covenant to us because we were never a part of the Mt. Sinai old covenant, as neither was Abraham or Noah or Enoch. To the disciples, however, who were Jews, it was a new covenant and that's how they referred to it.

vinsight4u said:

Psalms 2 is noted as happened already.

Acts of the Apostles 4:25-26
Acts of the Apostles 4:27

Daniel 12:13 then there will still be a time of 1335 days that people must
stay alive to, if they want to be blessed

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The disciples in those passages did make use of Psalms 2, but it was not the fulfillment of Psalms 2 (rod of iron) which is evident by the passages in Ezekiel 39 and Revelation regarding ruling the nations (the heathen, which is another way of saying gentile nations) with a rod of iron. This is forthcoming. Not discounting your point regarding Acts. Just saying, okay?

Straightshot said:

"The finished proclamation is that the old covenant was finished"

Nay ..... His finished work on the cross provides His offer of Salvation .... period

You go further and tell that He is finished with His future prophetic word about things to come including His own involvement and consummation intents which are to be fulfilled to the letter

He is not finished with His nation of Israel .... and He has not put all of His enemies under His feet .... and He is not ruling this present lost world of 8 billion humans upon which He will bring unprecedented judgment for those that reject and do not believe the truth about Him

But these things He will do .... when He is ready

Click to expand...

Death was not under His feet yet during that 40 year transition period.

For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be eliminated is death. 1 Corinthians 15:25-26

Now when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will happen,

“Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

“Where, O death, is your victory?

Where, O death, is your sting?”

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 1 Corinthians 15:54-56


We preterists believe the Resurrection occurred in A.D. 70 when Christ destroyed the Old Covenant and the Temple and resurrected the saints from Sheol.

You futurists believe the Resurrection hasn't occurred and will be a physical Resurrection. Thus the Law is still in power. Because without the Law there is no death, Read it in 1 Cor. 15:26, 56.

The last enemy to be eliminated is death.

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

In other words, sin gives death its sting, and the law gives sin its power!

We preterists believe the Resurrection occurred in A.D. 70


Well if you mean a resurrection of the Lord's true ecclesia .... you are wrong

This event is still pending as we speak [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-38]

The Lord did not return to do this in 70 AD ..... if He did, you have a big problem

You sound like the ones that Paul refuted hands down [2 Timothy 2:15-18]

Douggg said:

No, Abraham was not under the old covenant. Abraham was born many hundreds of years before the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Which in Hebrews that whole point is made of Abraham's covenant, a separate covenant, was based on Abraham's faith, not his works.

The point I making is Jesus's death on the cross is not the nailing of the old covenant to the cross (as you had wrote), but our sins were bore by Jesus, which includes Abraham's and everyone not involved in the old covenant - which none of us gentiles were ever a part of.

The new covenant as it pertains to them of the old covenant (literal Israel) is that as it spread fades away the old covenant which is based upon an external relationship with God to an internal relationship with God by the Holy Spirit indwelling the heart of the believer. To us, it is the gospel, God's mercy and gift of salvation, but not technically a new covenant to us because we were never a part of the Mt. Sinai old covenant, as neither was Abraham or Noah or Enoch. To the disciples, however, who were Jews, it was a new covenant and that's how they referred to it.

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After sixty two sets of seven Jerusalem is built up in troublesome times. Messiah is not being cutoff when Jerusalem is being built up to the coming of messiah.

Daniel at first is providing an open summary that messiah will be cut-off AFTER Jerusalem is built up and will achieve God's purpose and following will be the destruction of the city and temple by war. This open summary does not give the exact time specifics of how long after messiah comes that he will be cut-off within this clause. But reading on further after this clause, Daniel specifies exactly when after sixty sets of seven will messiah be cut off when he states:

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

You know very well that Daniel is now talking about the final 70th week.

Then more specifics follow:

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

Middle of the week is in context to he 70th week and not the 69th week as preterists wrongly inferred. Christ's work on the cross fulfills the law and brings an end to the old covenant wtih all of its mosaic curses.

Israel as a nation barely noticed the cross, because the Father certainly noticed it and this is a contractual agreement laid down as a cornerstone to faith and salvation and either humanity will either accept God's peace offering or else his wrath to follow.

It is not a condition that a nation called Israel placed upon God as you are implying, this would seem nonsense. God offered the conditional agreement on the cross and from that very moment you are either on board with his offer of peace or you have become desolate as a nation.

Israel barely noticed the cross, this is further evidence in support that they were already made desolate after the cross and continued with this charad inspite of God's offer, I repeat that the overspreading/continuing of abominations is suggesting that these practices were already loathed by God despite the fact that they continued and later would turn upon the nation of Israel when judgement was decreed to follow this outright disrespectful customary Jewish sacrificial system whilst ignoring God's offer.

Yes in that respect God gave them 40 years to accept the terms of his offer from being the already determined desolate nation to being the nation of God but they blatantly refused the offer and so the end was already determined according to Daniel's 70th prophesy. The word determined means that the spiritual desolate would sooner or later become the physically desolated by war. The spiritual desolation of the nation was already after the cross regardless of their continued disobedience in refusing God's peace offering. The physical desolation follows as it clearly is highlighted by the language used:

even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The word EVEN is indicating inclusivity and if there was inclusivity then they would have been already made desolate prior to the physical destruction in 70AD. In fact it indicates that they were already considered spiritually desolate by God from their continuing abominable sacrifical practice even to the consummation, meaning the end of the sacrifical system which was, by the way well before 70AD.

So where does preterism and futurism go from here?

Also Abraham was under the Old Covenant faith by default because he is the father of faith to the Jewish nation and you cannot separate him by implying that he was a man not under any covenant. A covenant is a contractual agreement between God and man and when God makes promises to Abraham that he will raise a great nation, this immediately place him under the old covenant.

Abrahamic covenant is the old covenant because God imputed it on him as a decree before it came to be realised by the giving of the mosaic law to Moses on mount Sinai.

In the same way we are imputed by grace under the new covenant even though we came after the cross. The old covenant was constructed by a decree on Abraham and then received by his future generations of the nation if Israel.

Straightshot said:

We preterists believe the Resurrection occurred in A.D. 70


Well if you mean a resurrection of the Lord's true ecclesia .... you are wrong

This event is still pending as we speak [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-38]

The Lord did not return to do this in 70 AD ..... if He did, you have a big problem

You sound like the ones that Paul refuted hands down [2 Timothy 2:15-18]

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And wasn't 2 Timothy written before A.D. 70?