The Beast of the Apocalypse and the U.S. Supreme Court Ruling Redefining Marriage

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Armoured

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Every last one of them (except the first, perhaps) thought "this time is different." We have a lot of great Saints and respected theologians who prayed and studied and predicted the end and were wrong. I'm not sure how modern folk can justify a belief that they just know better than the good men who went before. As I said, part of me suspects that it isn't something they can help or reason through - that the need for enduring persecution (imagined or not) and the need to feel like they are in the know overpowers whatever reason they normally posess and they give their belief that o these ideas because they provide something they long for. Often times end-times predictors will hop from one preoccupying topic to the next, always thinking "this is really it".
I don't doubt their sincerity.

But sincerity and $5 gets you a cup of coffee, ya know?
 
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LivingWordUnity

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"It [the Beast] causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead"

-
Revelation 13:16 (emphasis added)

Commentary of the venerable St. Bede, a Doctor of the Church:
"The mark is the mystery of iniquity, which is received by those who are hypocrites in practice and profession." (emphasis added)
 
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MikeK

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Hmm.

If I wanted to join dots about timing, it looks rather more plausible to notice that this comes so close after Francis encyclical, and completely blots out discussion of that. Produce an imagined enemy to distract from a real crisis is the oldest political trick in the book.

Oh, I'm sure that's part of it. The Pope could have written his Encyclical on any topic he thought important enough, and he made his choice. It was not a popular choice among some Earthly hyperpartisans, but calls to Holiness and stewardship seldom are.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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I'm sure that the ones who wanted the Pope's new encyclical to be dogmatic were disappointed, especially with the disclaimer statement that's in it. But I think it's worth reading, and I try to make an effort for the environment. The Catholic Church recognizes a hierarchy of teaching. A Pope's encyclical can range from infallible to prudential. And Pope Francis has apparently chosen for Laudato si' to be more on the prudential side or he would not have included a disclaimer statement in it.

"It is the mission of the Magisterium to affirm the definitive character of the Covenant established by God through Christ with His People in a way which is consistent with the 'eschatological' nature of the event of Jesus Christ. It must protect God's People from the danger of deviations and confusion, guaranteeing them the objective possibility of professing the authentic faith free from error, at all times and in diverse situations. It follows that the sense and the weight of the Magisterium's authority are only intelligible in relation to the truth of Christian doctrine and the preaching of the true Word." - Donum Veritatis

"When comparing doctrines with one another, they should remember that in Catholic doctrine there exists a 'hierarchy' of truths, since they vary in their relation to the fundamental Christian faith." - Unitatis Redintegratio

"The Roman Pontiff and the bishops, in view of their office and the importance of the matter, by fitting means diligently strive to inquire properly into that revelation and to give apt expression to its contents; but a new public revelation they do not accept as pertaining to the divine deposit of faith." - Lumen Gentium, 25

"Let no Christian therefore, whether philosopher or theologian, embrace eagerly and lightly whatever novelty happens to be thought up from day to day, but rather let him weigh it with painstaking care and a balanced judgment, lest he lose or corrupt the truth he already has, with grave danger and damage to his faith." - Humani Generis
 
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ebia

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I'm sure that the ones who wanted the Pope's new encyclical to be dogmatic were disappointed, especially with the disclaimer statement that's in it. But I think it's worth reading, and I try to make an effort for the environment.
I cannot imagine anyone expected it to be dogmatic.
It's a lot stronger than I expected, not weaker.
And calls for massive systemic change, not just a bit of indivudal effort.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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For recycling, I try to prioritize with the plastics since we only have a small bin to put them in. Our family has stopped using the plastic bottles of hand soap, and we've been using bar soap instead. And I've been trying to get my daughters used to using regular dental floss instead of the Plackers type since the regular kind of floss is easier to recycle after using it.
 
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ebia

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There are over a billion Catholics in the world. Imagine the impact it would have if all of us started recycling. And, on top of that, there's also the non-Catholics who can start recycling.
It's not remotely enough. Like, a drop in a bucket. Necessary, but not sufficient. According to the encyclical.

BTW, have you ever been to a developing country - there's a lot less packaging, and stuff like bottles are reused over and over. In effect, there is about as much recycling as their context allows already.
 
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ebia

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Recycling plastic doesn't save very much - it takes almost as much energy to collect and recycle the plastic as it takes to make new plastic. The main gains are in reducing landfill and reducing the amount of plastic that ends up in the environment.

Metal, glass and paper are much more recyclable.
 
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I don't think the best route to take is focusing on "end times" predictions and apocalypse and such with these issues. The fact is, persecution of REAL Christians in coming. There are those sell-out posers who are pro-gay "marriage" and turn the other cheek to abortion and are ok with cohabitation and the LGBT propaganda, birth control, and every other issue but still go to Mass on Sunday. They're Christian hipsters and think themselves intellectual and superior while ignoring the basics and twisting their own catechism to suit their needs and the needs of other lefties. Then there are far-right wingers who see end times in everything.

From where I'm standing, our country is in a post-Christian sad state of affairs and moral collapse. From that collapse everything will get worse. Legislation, laws, crack-downs, systems, rules, taxes, and every other strategy won't bring you back from the pit when you're in a moral shut-down. Take California. We're in the most severe drought I've ever seen. It is literally changing the landscape of my state and destroying whole parts of it financially and logistically. Yet where is prayer and repentance? If this were a Christian nation, we'd have civic leaders praying and we'd fast and devote ourselves to God for a solution. That doesn't even dawn on us.

Crime and our social systems is in collapse because of immorality. Most of the parents in my classroom are divorced or have kids from multiple partners they never even bothered to marry or even love. Plenty of abuse and shacking up and inappropriate content and sloth and dependence on welfare, drugs, criminality, and apathy. There isn't God in the center of the lives of these people. They're just living as animals that get an itch, have some sex to satisfy urges, eat their In 'n Out Burger, fight and steal, and do what comes "natural."

I listen to the way my students interact, how their parents communicate and interact, and I hear people when I'm shopping and out and about, and it's a very UN-civil society.

Are we in the "end times?" Heck if I know. But I do know that our nation is an immoral cesspool. You get all these folks coming into OBOB behaving as if Roe v. Wade, this new SCOTUS immorality with LGBT "marriage," the pro-Islamic mentality, the apathy, and atheism of our nation is no big woop. It IS. Do I agree with the OP that we're at apocalypse level? Not sure. But I won't come in here lambasting him, rolling my eyes, and saying he's wrong. How do I know that? I don't know either way!?

But I do think America is headed down a dark road. Full fledged Walking Dead-style apocalypse with Planet of the Apes overtones? Not so sure of that. But I can easily see us in armed insurrection civil unrest instability that could last months to years for sure. Let's just say my gun safe is growing all the time with both weapons and ammo. And when the moment arrives, my house will NOT be a good place to try to pillage! LOL
 
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MikeK

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I cannot imagine anyone expected it to be dogmatic.
It's a lot stronger than I expected, not weaker.
And calls for massive systemic change, not just a bit of indivudal effort.

Same:) I thought it was a beautiful document, and a real call to action. Whether we heed that call and make real, sincere efforts to change the way we live and consume remains to be seen. On that, I'm not optimistic.
 
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ebia

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Same:) I thought it was a beautiful document, and a real call to action. Whether we heed that call and make real, sincere efforts to change the way we live and consume remains to be seen. On that, I'm not optimistic.
Me neither.

But Christ is risen.
 
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MikeK

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I don't think the best route to take is focusing on "end times" predictions and apocalypse and such with these issues. The fact is, persecution of REAL Christians in coming. There are those sell-out posers who are pro-gay "marriage" and turn the other cheek to abortion and are ok with cohabitation and the LGBT propaganda, birth control, and every other issue but still go to Mass on Sunday. They're Christian hipsters and think themselves intellectual and superior while ignoring the basics and twisting their own catechism to suit their needs and the needs of other lefties. Then there are far-right wingers who see end times in everything.

From where I'm standing, our country is in a post-Christian sad state of affairs and moral collapse. From that collapse everything will get worse. Legislation, laws, crack-downs, systems, rules, taxes, and every other strategy won't bring you back from the pit when you're in a moral shut-down. Take California. We're in the most severe drought I've ever seen. It is literally changing the landscape of my state and destroying whole parts of it financially and logistically. Yet where is prayer and repentance? If this were a Christian nation, we'd have civic leaders praying and we'd fast and devote ourselves to God for a solution. That doesn't even dawn on us.

Crime and our social systems is in collapse because of immorality. Most of the parents in my classroom are divorced or have kids from multiple partners they never even bothered to marry or even love. Plenty of abuse and shacking up and inappropriate content and sloth and dependence on welfare, drugs, criminality, and apathy. There isn't God in the center of the lives of these people. They're just living as animals that get an itch, have some sex to satisfy urges, eat their In 'n Out Burger, fight and steal, and do what comes "natural."

I listen to the way my students interact, how their parents communicate and interact, and I hear people when I'm shopping and out and about, and it's a very UN-civil society.

Are we in the "end times?" Heck if I know. But I do know that our nation is an immoral cesspool. You get all these folks coming into OBOB behaving as if Roe v. Wade, this new SCOTUS immorality with LGBT "marriage," the pro-Islamic mentality, the apathy, and atheism of our nation is no big woop. It IS. Do I agree with the OP that we're at apocalypse level? Not sure. But I won't come in here lambasting him, rolling my eyes, and saying he's wrong. How do I know that? I don't know either way!?

But I do think America is headed down a dark road. Full fledged Walking Dead-style apocalypse with Planet of the Apes overtones? Not so sure of that. But I can easily see us in armed insurrection civil unrest instability that could last months to years for sure. Let's just say my gun safe is growing all the time with both weapons and ammo. And when the moment arrives, my house will NOT be a good place to try to pillage! LOL

We can change what's bad. You mention crime - we have too much violent crime today but far less than we did when you and I were born. Apathy? We can change that through our own involvement and enthusiasm in civic activities we don't draw a check from. A lack of Fathers? Let's be coaches and Big Brothers. Non-marriages? Let's let the world see just how amazing our marriages are by leading marriage prep classes and raising children who are head and shoulders above their peers at everything they put their mind to. I have brought people to Christ through my example, but never once through preaching.
 
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wondrousgnat

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I saw on the news today that the Episcopalians voted overwhelmingly in favor of gay marriage. Could that be the sign of the End Times? I doubt it. That denomination has been shrinking rapidly and this decision I am certain will do more to shrink their church than grow it. And which people are the ones who will join. Glad I am not Episcopalian. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-07-01-21-27-06


I remember in the 70s reading lots of books about the End Times and watching television shows. We were only days away. And we were told which Pope would be the Anti-Christ. Well that Pope has come and gone so all those predictions were false.
 
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All4Christ

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Hoping I can reply to this as a guest, and not be breaking any rules!

I am distressed by the ruling and saddened to see this direction come to our country. I do think it has been coming with the decline of a biblical view of marriage as a whole, but I particularly am concerned about the possibility of Christian Churches being forced to do things against their morals in the future. I will never approve of this (though I will always care and pray for anyone that is a part of it) and am thankful to be a part of a Church that affirms this belief.

That said, our priest said something very important last Sunday regarding all of this. It is likely that some persecution will come, maybe soon, maybe awhile from now, maybe mild intolerance and maybe extreme persecution. That said, the Church has faced persecution many times over the ages. We have experienced persecution in the early Church, with Muslim extremists, with Communism and a myriad of other times. So many of those persecuting entities have come, risen to power, and fallen. The beauty of this, is that the Chirch still stands. No matter what happens, we have the Church and God to help us through the trials of this world, and the Church is not going anywhere. When we enter into the Church, we experience a bit of heaven and a foretaste of what is to come. This will be the case no matter whether we are in good times, experiencing pressure or intolerance either through social pressure or governmental, suffering external persecuting, or even being driven underground. God will stand and the Church with Him - no matter what happens in this world.
 
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Armoured

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Rich coming from someone who shows complete indifference to abortion and gay marriage. But not doing enough to recycle oh man God's gonna smite LWU good!
Hoping I can reply to this as a guest, and not be breaking any rules!

I am distressed by the ruling and saddened to see this direction come to our country. I do think it has been coming with the decline of a biblical view of marriage as a whole, but I particularly am concerned about the possibility of Christian Churches being forced to do things against their morals in the future. I will never approve of this (though I will always care and pray for anyone that is a part of it) and am thankful to be a part of a Church that affirms this belief.

That said, our priest said something very important last Sunday regarding all of this. It is likely that some persecution will come, maybe soon, maybe awhile from now, maybe mild intolerance and maybe extreme persecution. That said, the Church has faced persecution many times over the ages. We have experienced persecution in the early Church, with Muslim extremists, with Communism and a myriad of other times. So many of those persecuting entities have come, risen to power, and fallen. The beauty of this, is that the Chirch still stands. No matter what happens, we have the Church and God to help us through the trials of this world, and the Church is not going anywhere. When we enter into the Church, we experience a bit of heaven and a foretaste of what is to come. This will be the case no matter whether we are in good times, experiencing pressure or intolerance either through social pressure or governmental, suffering external persecuting, or even being driven underground. God will stand and the Church with Him - no matter what happens in this world.
No ones going to force Christian churches to do anything. The only people talking about forcing Christian Churches to do anything are paranoid Christians. It's not going to happen. You can relax.
 
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