Natural law of Creation 'and the two shall become one flesh’ No longer valid in US

Lulav said:

Care to elaborate or just looking to up your post count?

Click to expand...

I thought it was pretty clear. So gay people can get married as far as secular society is concerned. Meh.

Perhaps a nice menage a trois at the convent? Una cosi fan tutti? Molto bene.

Lulav said:

What if is flows over to the church? Two priests getting married?

Click to expand...

Groan...

Some still stand on biblical principles. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news...rt-ruling-regarding-same-gender-marriage.html

Shepherd Master said:

"Become one flesh" is actually the act of completing the Creator, to make him whole again, bringing the two halves together as one. Anything else is a mockery and the Father will not be mocked.

Click to expand...

This sounds more like it belongs in psycho theology. Are you implying that the Creator is somehow less than perfect and needs us for anything?

Also, he does not bear traits similar to us. We have a few similar to him. There are big differences; one being that he is spirit and does not have gender.

pat34lee said:

This sounds more like it belongs in psycho theology. Are you implying that the Creator is somehow less than perfect and needs us for anything?

Click to expand...

I think she meant "bringing the two halves of God together" on a symbolic level, not literal level. God is after all, quite whole.

Hoshiyya said:

And building on that: Lot didn't try to run Sodom. Nor did Abraham try to run Ur.

They kept control of their own households, they weren't trying to boss around others and run other people's households.

In fact, doing so would probably detract from the time necessary to focus on keeping their own house pure.

Click to expand...

G-d called Abraham OUT of Ur... Lot in frank disobedience went to Sodom. That decision cost Lot dearly. Lost his wife, impregnated both of his daughters and their offspring would later become bitter enemies of Israel.

We are to live orderly. But this is not done....

Their agenda is not over... marriage is on the beginning they want acceptance and the will strive to have the bible categorized as hate speech and any believer or pastor that teaches Homosexuality as a sin will face dire consequences... that is the next thing to come down the pike... just watch

BukiRob said:

Lot in frank disobedience went to Sodom.

Click to expand...

I'm confused. Sodom is not in Ur. Sodom is in the Levant, in the land next to where Abraham decided on. Ultimately the land Sodom was on became part of Abraham's covenant. Where does God command Lot not to go to Sodom? If Lot had chosen where Abraham went, then Abraham would have gone where Sodom was. Are you saying that Lot was disobedient because he chose to be a city dweller rather than a herdsman? I don't think that's in scripture. Please explain.

Shepherd Master said:

Pearls before swine...................

Click to expand...

Are you admitting something here? How old are you, 12?

Be wary of studying under anyone calling himself (or herself these days) a Rabbi. If they don't care what Yeshua said about that one item, how many others are they sidestepping?

Open Heart said:

I'm confused. Sodom is not in Ur. Sodom is in the Levant, in the land next to where Abraham decided on. Ultimately the land Sodom was on became part of Abraham's covenant. Where does God command Lot not to go to Sodom? If Lot had chosen where Abraham went, then Abraham would have gone where Sodom was. Are you saying that Lot was disobedient because he chose to be a city dweller rather than a herdsman? I don't think that's in scripture. Please explain.

Click to expand...

You are correct here. Lot and Abraham split up because they had too many herds to keep them together. It was causing problems among their followers. After Lot went his way, it never says what happened to his flocks or men. I'm guessing he sold the flocks and let the men go in order to buy a house in Sodom, maybe a business of some type. Either way, like Abraham, he was a rich man.

The problem with lot staying in Sodom is that he knew what the men were like there. He had no business being part of their city.

Open Heart said:

I'm confused. Sodom is not in Ur. Sodom is in the Levant, in the land next to where Abraham decided on. Ultimately the land Sodom was on became part of Abraham's covenant. Where does God command Lot not to go to Sodom? If Lot had chosen where Abraham went, then Abraham would have gone where Sodom was. Are you saying that Lot was disobedient because he chose to be a city dweller rather than a herdsman? I don't think that's in scripture. Please explain.

Click to expand...

Never said Sodom was part of Ur. Lots life was a train wreck.... Lot tried to take advantage of Abraham in Genesis 13 because Lot did not trust Adonai like Abraham did. The next chapter we see that Lot is carried off into captivity along with ALL he possessed as the spoils of war. Lot is then rescued by Abraham and STILL returns to Sodom.

Wife dead for disobey by looking back at Sodom at its destruction.... daughters knocked up because they rejected the idea of G-d will provide and as a result they engaged in incest with Lot...they were afraid their line would end because there were no men around. Lot had to have known what happened when it was obvious the girls were pregnant. How could he possibly see his life as anything but an utter and complete failure. Wife dead, much of his family dead because they refused to leave Sodom he has impregnated his two remaining daughters.

Lot should have deferred to Abraham as HE was the patriarch of the family and Lot was younger but Lot did not do that. Lot immediately took Abraham up on his offer of "you pick" it would have been customary for Lot to have insisted that Abraham chose as the head of the family.

pat34lee said:

You are correct here. Lot and Abraham split up because they had too many herds to keep them together. It was causing problems among their followers. After Lot went his way, it never says what happened to his flocks or men. I'm guessing he sold the flocks and let the men go in order to buy a house in Sodom, maybe a business of some type. Either way, like Abraham, he was a rich man.

The problem with lot staying in Sodom is that he knew what the men were like there. He had no business being part of their city.

Click to expand...

Lot should have deferred to Abraham as the patriarch of the family. He immediately took Abraham up on his offer. Lots actions repeatedly cost him dearly. After arriving in Sodom, what happens? His family and he are carried off along with all of their wealth as the spoils of war. Abraham rescues Lot but scripture does not indicate that Lots portion of his wealth was returned to him and Abraham refuses to take any of the spoils of war.

A second time Abraham prays for 1 to be found righteous to prevent the destruction of Sodom... lots wife and most of his family is destroyed. His 2 remaining daughters concoct a crazy scheme to keep the lineage alive by getting Lot drunk and laying with him... Lots life can only be discribed as a complete train wreck.

Shepherd Master said:

He pitched his tent towards Sodom.

He had a choice, temporal advantages and wealth or faith and following God and his instruction. He chose to settle with the heathen.

Click to expand...

I don't think he disobeyed God. God did not demand of him not to live in a city. He made a foolish choice, though, and one which many people still make: they choose the shallow glitter over substance.

pat34lee said:

The problem with lot staying in Sodom is that he knew what the men were like there. He had no business being part of their city.

Click to expand...

Yeah, Lot was a coke short of a six-pack.

it wasn't about cake , it isn't about marriage , it isn't about the Bible really, except that belief in the Bible and the laws that allow it , limits their access to your children.
Jesus Loves the little children , all the children of the world red and yellow black and white....Jesus loves the Little children of the world.
I think he plans on having blood on his hands before this deal is done.

Chicken Little said:

it wasn't about cake , it isn't about marriage , it isn't about the Bible really, except that belief in the Bible and the laws that allow it , limits their access to your children.
Jesus Loves the little children , all the children of the world red and yellow black and white....Jesus loves the Little children of the world.
I think he plans on having blood on his hands before this deal is done.

Click to expand...

We have decades of blood debt from abortions to repay, and that is just the beginning.

Hoshiyya said:

"That was and remains the point, to get yourselves out of harms way"

I don't see how that contradicts what I said. I am saying, get yourself out of harms way.

Lot didn't try to run Sodom, he tried to run away from Sodom.

To the extent he lived there, he had no illusion of lording over the others there. Likewise, we live in human society. God doesn't require us to live in the wilderness. Scripture assures that we may be IN the world without being OF the world (John 17:14, 16; John 15:19).

We can be in Egypt without being Egyptian. We can be in France, the US or Japan, without being French, American or Japanese - we are called to be citizens of heaven (Philippians 1:27, 3:20). As scripture says, "Do not be conformed to this world, but continuously be transformed by the renewing of your minds so that you may be able to determine what God's will is—what is proper, pleasing, and perfect" (Romans 12:2.)

Click to expand...

I don't think Sodom gave Lot or anyone else any say in anything.
Here, in the United States we have (excuse me while I laugh) government of the people, by the people, for the people.
We're supposed to have an influence.
Just wanted to clear that up.