Everything is permissable?

IMO the hard defined "sin" was not viewed the way we view it. Some commentators (like First Fruits of Zion) have said that Paul was quoting from the letter mentioned in the epistle that the Corinth congregation had sent to him.

I am not sure what translation you are using there but the "you say" is not in the Greek text. However, it does convey the same idea that the phrase was from the Corinthians and not Paul. Paul taught (primarily to Gentiles) that the Law of Moses was (for them) no longer in effect. It is an easy step from saying that to the erroneous conclusion that there is no law about anything. So Paul writes down this imaginary conversation:

"All things are lawful;" but, not all things are profitable.
"All things are lawful;" but, not all things edify.

People weren't getting what Paul was teaching even back then. Same with these Corinthians. Paul taught liberty from the law and their interpretation was they were free to do as they pleased, it seems in regards to idolatry and fornication. We must remember when reading Pauls writings that this is only one side of the story, I don't think these are meant as general instructions to the church. Paul responds to things he hears about them doing and I think this is the same case here. It is prefaced with:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

If there is no law there is no sin, thus no unrighteousness. However Paul tells them not to be deceived that doing these kinds of things kicks you out of the Kingdom

Fornication - 2
Idolatry - 2
Adultery - 7
Homosexual
Prostitution - 2
Thievery - 8
Covetous - 10
Drunks
Denigrators (of another person) 9
Rapacious robbers - 8

Now look at the 10 commandments

1. I am the L-RD your G-d
2. No other gods before me
3. Not take the name of the L-RD in vain
4. Remember the Sabbath
5. Honor Father and Mother
6. Don't murder
7. Don't commit adultery
   
8. Don't steal
9. Bear false witness
10. Don't covet

As you can see most fall in line with the 10 with some from other parts of Torah.

As you can see he is speaking of fleshly lusts which are not to be entertained, for food and the stomach will one day be gone, but what we do with it now can either honor G-d or not.

Consider the subjective nature of " good " and " bad "

Something you do now ( sinning ) may be viewed as " bad ",....yet, down the road, in the future, it can become a " blessing in disguise " ( Good )

How can something be both good and bad ?

Look at the meaning of the word " sin ", which literally means " to fall short of the mark "

Then, look at the word " Torah "

It's taken from the root " yareh ", which means " to aim for the mark ( as in firing an arrow )

The purpose of studying the things in the Torah is to try and rise above the behaviors we call " sin "

See the antithetical concepts ?

Yarah - aim for the mark
Sin - falling short of the mark

I personally think people have attached an unnecessary darkness to the word " sin "

Let's assume for a second you had no free will, you do only " god's will " ( also subjectively interpreted these days )

~ you'd never be able to make mistakes or screw things up, if you never messed anything up, you'd never learn the lessons that come with the mistakes, you'd never have anything to overcome, and life would become meaningless

If you look at the very definition of the word in the verse you posted " expedient " , it means :

Adjective - (of an action) convenient and practical, although possibly improper or immoral
Noun - a means of attaining an end, especially one that is convenient but considered improper or immoral

Open Heart said:

You can't say the Mosaic law is NO LONGER in effect for Gentiles, when it was never in effect for them in the first place.

Click to expand...

Don't forget about the God Fearers like Jairus and Cornelius. Gentiles who adhered to the Torah laws.

Paul is midrashing again.

Open Heart said:

I'm hoping maybe you all can help me with a verse that has always given me problems.

1 Corinthians 10:23 "I have the right to do anything," you say--but not everything is beneficial. "I have the right to do anything"--but not everything is constructive.

What exactly is Paul saying here? By not saying, "but some things are sin," is he agreeing that everything is permissible? He SEEMS to be saying that there really isn't any rules or sin anymore, just things that are stupid to do.

I can't believe it. There must be something wrong somewhere. HELP!

Click to expand...

1 Cor 6:12 All things are lawful to me, but all things are not profitable; all things are lawful to me, but I--I will not be under authority by any;

There is something more here and I will consider this some more. But for now as I read it I wonder if he isn't simply saying that he (or we) can do anything we want, we can choose between the blessing and the curse. But not all things are profitable, if we choose the curse we do not benefit.

People weren't getting what Paul was teaching even back then. Same with these Corinthians. Paul taught liberty from the law and their interpretation was they were free to do as they pleased, it seems in regards to idolatry and fornication. We must remember when reading Pauls writings that this is only one side of the story, I don't think these are meant as general instructions to the church. Paul responds to things he hears about them doing and I think this is the same case here. It is prefaced with:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Open Heart said:

Cornelius was not a convert to Judaism. He was a God fearer. That means he didn't keep the 613, but only the universal laws, while accepting the Jewish belief system.

Click to expand...

Nobody keeps the 613, nobody ever has and nobody ever will. Within the 613 are commandments for priests, for woman, for how we deal with our animals, for men, for being in the land, for having a Temple, etc. The Torah was given to Israel "and the stranger with them" and that stranger "was to be treated as if native born." Now here is the important part... a gentile TODAY is a believer who is not Jewish... but a gentile from 75-100 years ago on... was one from any nation who was neither Jew nor Christian. A gentile is a pagan... thus the idea of a "gentile Christian" really is an oxymoron based on how it WAS defined. But since the meaning has changed that isn't the case. The problem is, the bible isn't using the modern definition. This is why Paul said of a guy like me who is not Jewish, I WAS a gentile and I WAS an alien of the Commonwealth of Israel but am NOW a fellow citizen (Eph. 2). Cornelius would have been just like those in the Acts 15 letter... he would have started with just a few things and would have then read the Torah and grew from there.

Open Heart said:

The moment you make the standard whether something is profitable instead of whether or not it is sin, you open the door for people to sin by claiming it profits them. For example, I can't think of a single gay person who thinks that sodomy isn't profitable. Gays who remain celibate do so because it is sin to act on their desires.

Click to expand...

I don't think that is what he is saying. Look, when you look up the word heresy in Greek in Thayer or Liddel-Scott you will find it defined like this:

Hairesis - to storm a city; to take by force

Contextually then, a heretic isn't somebody who reaches a different conclusion then the mainstream, that is the MODERN definition of that word. Historically a heretic was one who pushed his view on another. He used force or manipulation to get others to see things as he does. The heretics weren't beheaded... they were the ones with the axes who later changed the definition!

So God won't force is to do anything, that would make Him a heretic. Instead, he sets before us blessing and cursing, life and death and we are to choose life, choose the blessing... but we CAN choose the curse, we have that right. Paul is saying (and he says this 3 different times in this book by the way) that he is able to choose anything he desires but many of the things he can choose will be of no benefit. If we DO according to God's will and within His authority, we will be blessed, it will be profitable, beneficial... but if we choose to act outside of His authority and will, we won't be!

That is how I see this verse right now. I will leave the door open for a better interpretation.

Open Heart said:

So you are saying that "all things are lawful" means that God grants us the free will to do as we please, to our benefit or punishment. That is the interpretation I've tried to make fit my entire life. However, it has a big weakness: free will has always existed. If having free will means all things are lawful, then there was no real law back in Sinai either. That makes no sense at all.

Click to expand...

I agree... free will is not the law, it is the right to choose to our benefit or punishment... the cursing and blessings of living in God's world.

DaveW-Ohev said:

IMO the hard defined "sin" was not viewed the way we view it. Some commentators (like First Fruits of Zion) have said that Paul was quoting from the letter mentioned in the epistle that the Corinth congregation had sent to him.

I am not sure what translation you are using there but the "you say" is not in the Greek text. However, it does convey the same idea that the phrase was from the Corinthians and not Paul. Paul taught (primarily to Gentiles) that the Law of Moses was (for them) no longer in effect. It is an easy step from saying that to the erroneous conclusion that there is no law about anything. So Paul writes down this imaginary conversation:

"All things are lawful;" but, not all things are profitable.
"All things are lawful;" but, not all things edify.

Click to expand...

I think its also important to understand that Paul is speaking with the assumption that you are living an orderly life. Otherwise you have Paul teaching do what you want because once saved, always saved. This is error. Paul went out of his way in Jerusalem to counter the rumor that he was teaching AGAINST the Torah(law) James openly states that the elders KNEW this was not true

visionary said:

I agree... free will is not the law, it is the right to choose to our benefit or punishment... the cursing and blessings of living in God's world.

Click to expand...

Agree... this fits with Moses admonishing to choose life

There is a sinful nature and a Spiritual Nature. Paul says don't mess around in the former. Stick with the latter.