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cannot find a clear direction

PeterDona

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I am in the situation, that I have 10 years ago divorced the mother of my only son. I am at the moment going through a period of worrying deeply about my sin, I guess that is the grief that produces repentance, spoken in e.g. 2cor7.

The mother of my son is in an abusive church. Actually, it was the pastor who put me together with her, after her first husband had left her 6 months before. She also had a son with her first husband. She and her first husband were in the leadership together.

Since I was the one deciding for the divorce, I feel quite heavy about it.

Sometimes I feel angry that the pastor put me in this squeezing situation. Anger is also a sin.

I feel i have been through all the possibilities. I did study many views on marriage and divorce, and adultery (that a 2nd marriage could be considered). But at the bottomline is, that I fear that I have the obligation to go back to this woman, and even go back to that abusive church. I did the sin of divorce. If I repent of that sin, does it not mean to go back to the marriage?

I know what my feelings want, but if God considers that (2nd) marriage a valid one, do I not have to go back to her?
 

Matthias Rose

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You are liable to get conflicting advice on this one.

I'll share some thoughts for you, as someone who has also gone through divorce, and struggled with the consequences of that decision on myself and on my ex-wife.

Simply put: No, No, No!

There may be a price to pay, a sacrifice to make, a cross to carry. But you cannot go back. Back doesn't exist anymore. You can go forward, into a new situation. Find out where God is calling you to go forward.

It's possible that God is calling you to go forward into a new relationship with this woman, the mother of your Son. But if the church is abusive, I can guarantee that God is not calling you to submit yourself to it. You might be called back to it in the role of Jesus among the moneychangers... but she may not thank you for overturning the tables of their abuse.

All that said, this is a messy complicated world. Don't allow hubris to tell you that your sin is the only one, or even the most important one. That is a temptation, as well.

Maybe you made a mistake. Maybe you made bad decisions. Maybe you sinned.

But repentance does not mean going back to a place of sin! It means turning back to God!

So: connect with God now, and find where God is calling you. In the vast majority of cases I have seen, God calls us to healing. To learning. And to taking this learning and this healing into a new place.

Jesus himself was not accepted in his home town.

Sometimes you simply cannot go back. However well intentioned or sacrificial the desire to truly, deeply atone for a wrong is: sometimes the only way to do that is to walk away and to take that deep humility and the wisdom that came from hurting and being hurt into a new place.

In addition to seeking God's will -- which is something that can be easily confused with our own desires, our own fears, and that inner voice of judgement (which is not God) -- here are a couple of questions:

1. How would you confront the abuse in this Church? Because you cannot let it pass.
2. How would returning to your ex be healthy: for you and for her? (Because if there is no way for it to be healthy, then it is not the path for you!)
3. Where does your desire call you, and can that be healthy? It is important to pay attention to our desires, because God does use that to call us into life, joy, and beauty. Yes, it can be a selfish motivation, but it can also be one of God's tools. So at the very least notice it and name it. Test it, just as you would test anything else that might by God's call to your heart.
4. Where can you be strongest? As a man, you will be called into your strength. So if you feel that you can return with strength and conviction to lead in this troubled situation, then pay attention to that. But if it feels like the history and entanglements of that path are too much for you to stay in a leadership role, then where can you step into your strength and lead from your heart, spirit, mind, and body?

Contemplate and pray on those questions a bit, and see if that doesn't help with some clarity!

And let us know how it goes!
 
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TheBarrd

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You are liable to get conflicting advice on this one.

I'll share some thoughts for you, as someone who has also gone through divorce, and struggled with the consequences of that decision on myself and on my ex-wife.

Simply put: No, No, No!

There may be a price to pay, a sacrifice to make, a cross to carry. But you cannot go back. Back doesn't exist anymore. You can go forward, into a new situation. Find out where God is calling you to go forward.

It's possible that God is calling you to go forward into a new relationship with this woman, the mother of your Son. But if the church is abusive, I can guarantee that God is not calling you to submit yourself to it. You might be called back to it in the role of Jesus among the moneychangers... but she may not thank you for overturning the tables of their abuse.

All that said, this is a messy complicated world. Don't allow hubris to tell you that your sin is the only one, or even the most important one. That is a temptation, as well.

Maybe you made a mistake. Maybe you made bad decisions. Maybe you sinned.

But repentance does not mean going back to a place of sin! It means turning back to God!

So: connect with God now, and find where God is calling you. In the vast majority of cases I have seen, God calls us to healing. To learning. And to taking this learning and this healing into a new place.

Jesus himself was not accepted in his home town.

Sometimes you simply cannot go back. However well intentioned or sacrificial the desire to truly, deeply atone for a wrong is: sometimes the only way to do that is to walk away and to take that deep humility and the wisdom that came from hurting and being hurt into a new place.

In addition to seeking God's will -- which is something that can be easily confused with our own desires, our own fears, and that inner voice of judgement (which is not God) -- here are a couple of questions:

1. How would you confront the abuse in this Church? Because you cannot let it pass.
2. How would returning to your ex be healthy: for you and for her? (Because if there is no way for it to be healthy, then it is not the path for you!)
3. Where does your desire call you, and can that be healthy? It is important to pay attention to our desires, because God does use that to call us into life, joy, and beauty. Yes, it can be a selfish motivation, but it can also be one of God's tools. So at the very least notice it and name it. Test it, just as you would test anything else that might by God's call to your heart.
4. Where can you be strongest? As a man, you will be called into your strength. So if you feel that you can return with strength and conviction to lead in this troubled situation, then pay attention to that. But if it feels like the history and entanglements of that path are too much for you to stay in a leadership role, then where can you step into your strength and lead from your heart, spirit, mind, and body?

Contemplate and pray on those questions a bit, and see if that doesn't help with some clarity!

And let us know how it goes!

A lot of good advice in Matthias' carefully considered post here.
Just one problem...if he remarries to a different woman, would he be sinning?
Why or why not?
And should the answer have an impact on his decision?
Why or why not?
 
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TheBarrd

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And here's another thought...was he sinning in the first place when he married a woman who had been divorced?

Lots of layers here.

And what about the two boys? Don't they deserve some stability in their lives?
 
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Matthias Rose

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The Barrd brings up a lot of good points, but I want to encourage you, PeterDona, to stay focussed on the question at hand. What is God calling you to do?

With regard to the "what if" another woman enters your life -- that's not the problem or question at hand, and bringing that in can only confuse the matter right now. Maybe you are be called forward into a new relationship with the mother of your son; maybe you are be called forward to a new opening of your life in celibacy; maybe there will be another relationship for you. If there is, the question of sin and so forth is one that you can approach and disentangle when confronted with that possibility. But that's not your question right now, and "maybes" that haven't materialized are one way we end up choosing based on our fears or relying on the tangled logic of our own mind, rather than the simple truth of what God is calling us to.

The question of the two boys is more relevant. And for that, I go back to the question of looking for what is healthy. Healthy for you, healthy for her, healthy for them. If you cannot go forward in a way that brings more health, more stability, and a better life for them, then you would not be doing them any favors. If the specific realities of this situation are such that you are going to be a weaker, less healthy person for being there, you will not be doing them any favors. But if you can bring strength and stability into their lives, while also doing God's work in the larger context, then that is good information to have! Unfortunately, you can't know the answer to these questions fully without exploring the possibilities. But -- and I have seen this personally -- you can do more damage by returning, failing, and leaving again. Unless you are pretty darn sure that this is something you can do and that God is strengthening you for, it is very possible to retraumatize and further undermine the life of these children.

And finally, with regard to the "was he sinning in the first place" -- irrelevant at this point, or else tied up in the existing question. We are all sinning pretty much all the time. (Maybe not TheBarrd, I don't know.) But we all have a multitude of past sins: things done and things left undone. We can beg forgiveness for our sin, and we can step forward into the grace that God offers. But the sins of our past do not control or direct our present or our future -- except inso far as we have hurt others in ways for which we ought to make amends. At this point the damage done by getting with her in the first place is tied up in the damage of leaving, which should be examined within the context of what were probably good reasons for leaving and damage that may have been underway by staying!

I think you are right, PeterDona, to ask what you might be called upon to do by way of making amends. But be aware that what making amends looks like is something that is healthy and healing for all.

None of us can answer this for you: this is about where God calls you.
 
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TheBarrd

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Matthias, I have had to repent more often than I like to think about...daily at least...and sometimes hourly.
I do think the question of whether or not he might marry again is relevant, and should have a place in this decision...it is an option that he loses if he does go back to this marriage.
On the other hand, they've been divorced for ten years, and he has evidently not considered another marriage. Is that because he thought he'd be sinning? Listening to him, that is very likely. Or are there other reasons?
And I think the question of whether or not he thought he was sinning in the first place does need to be explored, because if he thinks his marriage is based on sin, it will have an impact on his attitude toward himself, and toward his wife and the two boys.
We hear him saying that he was "put together with" this woman by the pastor of this "abusive church". Her first husband had only been gone for 6 months. Does he have any involvement here? Does he have visitation, or even partial custody of his son from their marriage? Does he pay child support? Having remarried, I don't think she could get alimony from him.
He sounds very reluctant. He wants to repent of the sin of divorce, which is commendable...but doesn't really sound as if he wants to renew the marriage. He was the one who wanted the divorce, he tells us, and it is this that makes him feel "heavy."
My own advice would be a lot of prayer, and maybe talk it over with a Christian counselor...one who is NOT involved in any way with the "abusive church" his ex-wife belongs to. One wonders why the pastor hasn't "put her with" anyone else by this time?
It just sounds like a bad deal all around to me...but especially for the boys.
As you say, for him to go back and not be the strong and supportive husband and father those boys need and deserve would, in the long run, do more harm than good...
 
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PeterDona

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Hi,
thank you for all your thoughts. I will meditate on it.

I do not see a healthy way to continue the relation to my son's mother.

But I know that anything is possible for God.

I did start another relation, but this was based on feelings and not led by God. It became sinful, so I stopped it about 2 years ago. My son even met this woman, and she was nice to him. But in the end, it did not work out, and instead came the repentance process.

best regards, Peter
 
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TheBarrd

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Well, Peter, I am very sorry if Matthias and I have confused you. I assure you, neither one of us would do that on purpose.
And, Darling, I'm not sure how you're seeing "feelings" as "not led by God"??
Surely, God would want there to be good feelings between you and your lady? I'm wondering what, exactly, you are looking for as a sign that a particular relationship is led by God?
The thing is, since neither Matthias nor I have anything to go on other than what you have told us...we don't know the church, or the pastor, or your wife, or you, or the circumstances that led to your divorce, or why you have waited ten years to consider renewing the relationship...we really can't give you any better advice than we have. Ten years is a long, long time in the life of a child.
It's a long, long time in the life of a woman as well...or a man.
 
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PeterDona

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Yah,
I waited for 10 years, probably because this is how long it took me to get myself out of the church, build friendships for my son, lose my job, be unemployed for 2 years, get a new job, find new friends, and finally find a woman, who really was everything I was looking for - nice, considerate, respectful, and ... difficult in a funny way. But since we fell in sin, and at one point I simply felt that I had to get her completely out of my life. I was hoping that she will come back one day, if God gives a green light, but many times when she contacts me I feel a burning in my stomach, which reminds me of the scripture:
Can a man carry fire in his bosom and not be burnt (proverbs 6:27).
I simply believe, the Holy Spirit is not giving me a green light. Rather, that would be a red light.

For many years I felt angry, really angry with the church and with my son's mother, because I felt they had decieved and betrayed me. The history of the marriage in short is, that my son's mother was my mentor in that church. One summer day in 2002 I voiced some critique of the pastors son to my cell group leader. He took the critique to the pastor. She arranged a meeting 4 days later, actually without notifying me. I was just told "we have a little meeting now", and I was led to this meeting with the pastor and 2 others of the leadership (among those my son's mother). The pastor opened in an angry voice, that she wanted to expulse me from the church. She was very angry, and it was a quite an abstract situation to be in. However, I knew that it would be deadly for me to be ejected from the church, since I was living in their house, and had not any friends outside. And, I noticed, none of the other reacted even though they heard these deadly threats. Even the mother of my son was just sitting there (like a zombie, I felt). I made a "confession" and a prayer, during which I grabbed the hand of the mother of my son. This way i apparently avoided immediate disaster, but I knew that from now on I had to get myself out.

3 days later, the pastor came and suggested that I married this woman. I considered, that if I went into the engagement, then I would have time to get myself straightened up and arrange things to get out, and be more safe that I would not be harassed by the pastor again. A wedding date within a years time would give me ample time to fix the matters. It was not good to abuse a woman in this situation, but, I rationalised, since she had not spoken out against the threats from the pastor, she was not really a totally human being.

The show went on just fine. We did the engagement, and there was not much contact, since she was always busy. So the acting was easy. But at some point she wanted to rush the marriage, and I protested a bit, but dared not protest a lot, because that would attract a bad attention from the leaders. So the wedding date was progressed, and I could only pray to God that He would create a way out. He did not, so we got married, and then I felt bound by the marriage.

But it was hard to be married, and I struggled. I could not twist my heart, and so I never really felt married. Only I felt bound. In the end I started feeling suicidal, and with the usual hard comments from my wife, I had not a lot of options. In this situation, a divorce was the better choice.
 
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PeterDona

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I understand, you will say, now this person is really a bad person. I understand, that I have acted, while being a christian, very despicable, and very destructively. I could try to point the guilt at someone else, but in the end, I will be judged based on my actions, not the excuses I can present. So I try to repent, but then how to repent in this situation.

I am scared of hell, I am scared of Jesus returning before I had a chance to know exactly how to repent. I want to go to heaven, but I am not sure how to repent. This is my struggle.

Thanks for any prayer that is offered on my behalf.
 
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