same sex marriage ruling in

redleghunter said:

Between this decision and Obamacare, the SCOTUS just trashed the 10th Amendment.

Upcoming to a church near you. Fed gov removing church tax exempt status for churches refusing to 'marry' gays. Then civil rights lawsuits against churches and/or pastors for not marrying gays. The lawsuits will consume many churches coffers and will in effect close them. The lawsuits themselves may not be upheld given the 1st amendment; however this week we saw just how much the SCOTUS values the Bill of Rights (they don't).

Time for pastors, elders and church members to take stock of their church members. Time for the church of Christ to get small and faithful.

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Nonsense. It's 50 years since civil inter racial marriage was legalised. No church in that time has been compelled to marry an inter racial couple. Why do you think same sex marriage will be any different?

redleghunter said:

Tulc are you addressing me or another poster?

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I'm addressing anyone who thinks: "I don't like what the Supreme Court did so they must be wrong!!".
tulc(hopes that answers your question)

redleghunter said:

Tulc are you addressing me or another poster?

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The SCOTUS is made up of 9 fallible human beings. They get some things right and some things wrong.

In this case they had absolutely no Constitutional standing to make such a decison other than "their reasoned opinion." I would invite you to read both the majority and minority opinions of the court. So on a Constitutional basis there are some issues with the decision.

But we are discussing the decision on Christian Forums. So Tulc, does the SCOTUS decision glorify God? Is homosexual relations a sin or not. What are the scriptural justifications for your positions?

redleghunter said:

The SCOTUS is made up of 9 fallible human beings. They get some things right and some things wrong.

In this case they had absolutely no Constitutional standing to make such a decison other than "their reasoned opinion." I would invite you to read both the majority and minority opinions of the court. So on a Constitutional basis there are some issues with the decision.

But we are discussing the decision on Christian Forums. So Tulc, does the SCOTUS decision glorify God? Is homosexual relations a sin or not. What are the scriptural justifications for your positions?

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TIL SCOTUS exists to glorify God.

Armoured said:

Nonsense. It's 50 years since civil inter racial marriage was legalised. No church in that time has been compelled to marry an inter racial couple. Why do you think same sex marriage will be any different?

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Different? You as a Christian don't see the difference between humans of the opposite sex of differing skin color marrying and two of the same sex marrying? That's a huge difference. One is sin (same sex) and one is not (inter racial). Ok you were not making that point but wanted to clear the air on that first.

I don't defend Christians opposing inter racial marriages. Frankly, there is no scriptural evidence to support that stupid claim in the first place. That was a misquided and racist tradition of man, and never came from God, especially for Gentiles.

With that said, the fed gov has denied tax exemptions to churches who discriminated against inter racial marriages. So expect your church, one of the largest and most visible to be the first victim to the fed gov denying fed tax exemptions. Catholic charities relies heavily on the state and fed gov subsidies.

Next will be gay couples suing churches just to see what the SCOTUS will do on the matter. Remember Obamacare and contraceptives. We were told they could not force the Catholic church or its organizations to accept such. That went to the court as well. It's coming, don't be surprised at the different angles the attacks will come.

tulc said:

I'm addressing anyone who thinks: "I don't like what the Supreme Court did so they must be wrong!!".
tulc(hopes that answers your question)

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The SCOTUS is made up of 9 fallible human beings. They get some things right and some things wrong.
In this case they had absolutely no Constitutional standing to make such a decison other than "their reasoned opinion." I would invite you to read both the majority and minority opinions of the court. So on a Constitutional basis there are some issues with the decision.
But we are discussing the decision on Christian Forums. So Tulc, does the SCOTUS decision glorify God? Is homosexual relations a sin or not. What are the scriptural justifications for your positions?

redleghunter said:

Different? You as a Christian don't see the difference between humans of the opposite sex of differing skin color marrying and two of the same sex marrying? That's a huge difference. One is sin (same sex) and one is not (inter racial). Ok you were not making that point but wanted to clear the air on that first.

I don't defend Christians opposing inter racial marriages. Frankly, there is no scriptural evidence to support that stupid claim in the first place. That was a misquided and racist tradition of man, and never came from God, especially for Gentiles.

With that said, the fed gov has denied tax exemptions to churches who discriminated against inter racial marriages. So expect your church, one of the largest and most visible to be the first victim to the fed gov denying fed tax exemptions. Catholic charities relies heavily on the state and fed gov subsidies.

Next will be gay couples suing churches just to see what the SCOTUS will do on the matter. Remember Obamacare and contraceptives. We were told they could not force the Catholic church or its organizations to accept such. That went to the court as well. It's coming, don't be surprised at the different angles the attacks will come.

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Has any court, any where, been legally compelled to perform a marriage? Has it ever happened?

Y'all do realize, do you not, that segregationists also backed up their bigotry with scripture verses & christian doctrine.

Here's Bob Jones showing you how it's done.

They thought that God was on their side, but it turns out that they were just a bunch of bigots.

Armoured said:

Has any court, any where, been legally compelled to perform a marriage? Has it ever happened?

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That's a good question...But did you mean any church has been legally compelled to perform a marriage?

In that case no church that I know of has been compelled to perform an inter racial marriage. However, the SCOTUS decision was not based on the enumerations of the Civil Rights Act nor the specific purpose of the 14th Amendment with equal protections clause. Kennedy left wide open the door for considering revoking tax exept status as a first step.

If you have not read the majority opinion and decison I encourage you to do so.

revanneosl said:

Y'all do realize, do you not, that segregationists also backed up their bigotry with scripture verses & christian doctrine.

Here's Bob Jones showing you how it's done.

They thought that God was on their side, but it turns out that they were just a bunch of bigots.

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Indeed Bob Jones took part of one verse out of context and engaged in eisegesis. He created a tradition of man and built his own idol. But surely, you do not apply his error to same sex relations? The Biblical record is clear. Same sex relations is sin and abomination to God. To argue against such is to engage in the same eisegesis Bob Jones did and be in error.

redleghunter said:

That's a good question...But did you mean any church has been legally compelled to perform a marriage?

In that case no church that I know of has been compelled to perform an inter racial marriage. However, the SCOTUS decision was not based on the enumerations of the Civil Rights Act nor the specific purpose of the 14th Amendment with equal protections clause. Kennedy left wide open the door for considering revoking tax exept status as a first step.

If you have not read the majority opinion and decison I encourage you to do so.

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I mean exactly what I asked. Has any church, anywhere, ever, been legally compelled to conduct a marriage? Any marriage at all?

If not, isn't it just a tiny bit premature to insist it's suddenly going to start happening?

Armoured said:

I mean exactly what I asked. Has any church, anywhere, ever, been legally compelled to conduct a marriage? Any marriage at all?

If not, isn't it just a tiny bit premature to insist it's suddenly going to start happening?

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I see your point. The decision of the majority left open a lot of outcomes. It will come down to churches specifically defining their properties for the sole purposes of church members. We know this has to be done given Christian business owners have been sued for refusing to cater events and to rent out private property to homosexuals for marriage ceremonies. Loss of tax exempt status will be the first straw. That can be done at any time with the stroke of the pen at the IRS or WH.

redleghunter said:

I see your point. The decision of the majority left open a lot of outcomes. It will come down to churches specifically defining their properties for the sole purposes of church members. We know this has to be done given Christian business owners have been sued for refusing to cater events and to rent out private property to homosexuals for marriage ceremonies. Loss of tax exempt status will be the first straw. That can be done at any time with the stroke of the pen at the IRS or WH.

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Could being the operative word. You tell me when it actually happens, and I'll be incensed right along with you. Until that time, however...

Armoured said:

Could being the operative word. You tell me when it actually happens, and I'll be incensed right along with you. Until that time, however...

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Understand. Well you will be able to report first. The Catholic church will be the most visible first target.

redleghunter said:

Understand. Well you will be able to report first. The Catholic church will be the most visible first target.

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It's a deal. If I ever hear of it happening, I'll let you know, loud and fast.

redleghunter said:

The SCOTUS is made up of 9 fallible human beings. They get some things right and some things wrong.
In this case they had absolutely no Constitutional standing to make such a decison other than "their reasoned opinion." I would invite you to read both the majority and minority opinions of the court. So on a Constitutional basis there are some issues with the decision.
But we are discussing the decision on Christian Forums. So Tulc, does the SCOTUS decision glorify God? Is homosexual relations a sin or not. What are the scriptural justifications for your positions?

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The supreme Courts mandate isn't to "glorify God" their job is (among other things) to determine if a law or a type of law is or isn't Constitutional.
tulc(hopes this clears up my position on the Supreme Court)

redleghunter said:

You brought up the issue here. The Greek is not in dispute...Only by the homosexual lobby within some churches.

Is homosexual relations man/man woman/woman a sin or not?

Do same sex relations glorify God?

Why did Jesus Christ specifically mention marriage is between one man and one woman?

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The reason that the discussion in a short precise format such as the ordered Debate section works best is that the answers and questions are contained. There is far less a chance that confusion could come about. I do not 'beat around the bush' and keep words as few but direct as possible. I do not see others as 'the enemy' because if they have agreed to publicly debate (where there is also a chance of being publicly embarrassed) then I believe they are sincere In trying to find the truth....which is trying to find God.