Non-Christian husband with autism

Greetings Effie,

How interesting that your should bring this up right now. I have recently started a blog on FaceBook called Hyper-wired: The Musings of a Christian on the Autism Spectrum. I am currently working on a piece entitled "Saving Commander Data" that I will be posting there in the next couple of days. If you are on FaceBook, my blog page is at https://www.facebook.com/hyperwiredblog. I will also post the article here in this thread for you when it is completed.

The article is about how to reach autistics with the Gospel message.

I am an Aspie, too. Some churches are more geek-friendly than others. I have been blessed by Vineyards and Assemblies of God, but they are hit-or-miss. I've heard Foursquare Gospel had a similar feel, but I have never been to one. There seems to be three types of people who get me: other Aspies, other intellectually gifted and Charismatics.

(To be fair, I got saved in a Baptist church, though.)

Effie,

I will post here when completed. In the meantime you can view the FaceBook page without identifying yourself or liking the page. It is available to the public, and it is separate from my personal FaceBook page.

I have asperger's and OCD. The idea of someone out there having those things like me and yet also enjoying mocking Christianity is almost incomprehensible to me. My respective conditions were the reason I came to Christ in the first place.

Try and figure out what his "greviances" against the faith are: why won't he join it? Is it because he thinks it's just stupid, or does he hate the idea of someone giving him morals? If he makes up some excuse of it not being "coherent" or whatever, chances are he's just being arrogant. And people,with Asperger's, I'm sorry to say, can be self-centered and just think they know best--I should know, I was one such person before I came to Christ, hiding all of my insecurities.

I'll see if I can't give more advice later.

grandvizier1006 said:

I have asperger's and OCD. The idea of someone out there having those things like me and yet also enjoying mocking Christianity is almost incomprehensible to me. My respective conditions were the reason I came to Christ in the first place.

Try and figure out what his "greviances" against the faith are: why won't he join it? Is it because he thinks it's just stupid, or does he hate the idea of someone giving him morals? If he makes up some excuse of it not being "coherent" or whatever, chances are he's just being arrogant. And people,with Asperger's, I'm sorry to say, can be self-centered and just think they know best--I should know, I was one such person before I came to Christ, hiding all of my insecurities.

I'll see if I can't give more advice later.

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You seem to be guilty of the same kind of self centeredness you accuse Aspies of having without realizing it. Just because something is incomprehensible to you doesn't mean it's somehow irrational or not well thought out.

I'm not saying there cannot be Aspie Christians, but I'd almost hazard that a chunk are a particular subset to begin with, more social in nature than others and some may even be guilty of the peer pressure issues that plague mundanes in regards to Christianity as a demographic majority.

You spelled grievances wrong, but that's not the major issue.

Aspies are more likely to be of a moral tendency, if we're extrapolating from the goal of having a routine in life.

Coherence is not purely a subjective assessment, but based on a consideration of various facts and observations. I looked into other things, various philosophies, and Christianity was found wanting in comparison to others, such as Deism, which was my first step outward into apostasy. Something can be odd, but still make some degree or sense, like being lefthanded in a righthanded world or other things. If anything, God and Christianity can be "coherent", but my issue is that they're not relevant to me in terms of being an Aspie and a person. Call that self centered, but I'd say that your choice to be in Christianity isn't selfless either, but derived from your individual perspective and upbringing to a decent extent.

muichimotsu said:

You seem to be guilty of the same kind of self centeredness you accuse Aspies of having without realizing it. Just because something is incomprehensible to you doesn't mean it's somehow irrational or not well thought out.

I'm not saying there cannot be Aspie Christians, but I'd almost hazard that a chunk are a particular subset to begin with, more social in nature than others and some may even be guilty of the peer pressure issues that plague mundanes in regards to Christianity as a demographic majority.

You spelled grievances wrong, but that's not the major issue.

Aspies are more likely to be of a moral tendency, if we're extrapolating from the goal of having a routine in life.

Coherence is not purely a subjective assessment, but based on a consideration of various facts and observations. I looked into other things, various philosophies, and Christianity was found wanting in comparison to others, such as Deism, which was my first step outward into apostasy. Something can be odd, but still make some degree or sense, like being lefthanded in a righthanded world or other things. If anything, God and Christianity can be "coherent", but my issue is that they're not relevant to me in terms of being an Aspie and a person. Call that self centered, but I'd say that your choice to be in Christianity isn't selfless either, but derived from your individual perspective and upbringing to a decent extent.

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Did I offend you or something? I'm sorry if I did, I just had a lot of depression over my condition once. And if you're trying to imply that the only reason that I'm a Christian is because I was raised that way or was brainwashed into it, then so what? It's late and I'm not in the mood for moral equivalency games. I'm sorry you left Chirstianity, but I'm just trying to get a cross that "being an Aspie" and being a Christian aren't mutually exclusive, and I used to think that they were.

And yes, I can be self-centered. I didn't say I was morally perfect, I'm just trying to improve myself gradually and not look at myself as a misunderstood victim of society.

THIS is the sort of thing that I kept thinking would happen if I "embraced my Aspie identity".

grandvizier1006 said:

Did I offend you or something? I'm sorry if I did, I just had a lot of depression over my condition once. And if you're trying to imply that the only reason that I'm a Christian is because I was raised that way or was brainwashed into it, then so what? It's late and I'm not in the mood for moral equivalency games. I'm sorry you left Chirstianity, but I'm just trying to get a cross that "being an Aspie" and being a Christian aren't mutually exclusive, and I used to think that they were.

And yes, I can be self-centered. I didn't say I was morally perfect, I'm just trying to improve myself gradually and not look at myself as a misunderstood victim of society.

THIS is the sort of thing that I kept thinking would happen if I "embraced my Aspie identity".

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I wasn't implying such a reductionist idea, just that the variations should take environment into account, but also the subtypes that likely exist because of environment to begin with or disposition. I was raised Christian myself, but apostasized around 13: haven't been in a church for any real significant reason (besides the bare minimum related to funerals or weddings, which I haven't been to many in the last few years)

I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive, but I'm also noting that one doesn't necessarily have complete freedom in terms of religious influences. Not to mention that across the world the general demographic may be more irreligious overall: being an anomaly can be fun for studying anyway

I don't bring up my Aspergers much at all, and I'm certainly not making myself a victim of society, most of my issues (like being jobless and not having a license) are primarily my fault, I'm not going to pretend otherwise.

When someone said we Christians are all brainwashed, Barry McGuire (eve of destruction song) replied, - the difference is we have CHOSEN Who we want to wash our brains... <-- That's supposed to be a "shampoo" smiley.

Sabertooth said:

When someone said we Christians are all brainwashed, Barry McGuire (eve of destruction song) replied, - the difference is we have CHOSEN Who we want to wash our brains...

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You're really reaching here. I never used used that term or even implied such a particular process or indoctrination. I'm saying there are variations in terms of disposition, but there are also aspects of our environment we can't sever ourselves from. I'm always going to have Christian relatives and family, so I have to accept that.

By your logic, I chose my "brainwashing" (though I feel like the term is nebulous in the insinuation) as much as you. The only difference is conclusions reached. But the idea of washing "corrupting" creates a contradiction in the idiom.

I don't find Christianity meaningful in regards to what I've found as my values, even being raised by a Christian family that has varied degrees of devotion (my mother's side is especially religious and evangelical, I've found, not even seeming to have much of any disagreement in regards to their shared disapproval of my atheism and of gay people in general, among other perceived slights to their faith). I don't see a life with some predetermined end beyond my death as fulfilling: quite the contrary.

I am an adult with high functioning autism. I've undergone a few years of communications therapy and I eat a gluten and dairy free diet.

Many Aspies with faith will find themselves doing best in a liturgical church that has rituals, routines, and that tend towards introversion. I like going to Lutheran and Episcopalian churches. There is a large intellectual tradition in these churches, as well, which can be a good thing if you have Asperger's.

A point that I admittedly didn't consider: the demographics of Aspies that are Christians categorized by the ritual nature of it, particularly in regards to liturgy and worship overall.

As you noted, however, there seem to be more extroverted Aspies, so I wonder if there's any studies that have considered Aspies as having subtypes, a small portion more introverted than extroverted, while more may be extroverted by nature.

I think you have been exposed to a limited selection of churches or Christian religion, if your conclusion is that religion only antagonizes people or serves their darker instincts.

I notice you talk a lot about what is appealing to you. I am a Christian not because I think it is appealing to me, but because I believe it is true. The liturgical worship appeals to me because, since I believe it is true, our worship should have dignity, not because it is appealing to us, but because it is fitting and right. In the same way if a person were going to meet the Queen of England or the President wearing the same clothes they mowed their lawn in, that wouldn't be right either.

FireDragon76 said:

I think you have been exposed to a limited selection of churches or Christian religion, if your conclusion is that religion only antagonizes people or serves their darker instincts.

I notice you talk a lot about what is appealing to you. I am a Christian not because I think it is appealing to me, but because I believe it is true. The liturgical worship appeals to me because, since I believe it is true, our worship should have dignity, not because it is appealing to us, but because it is fitting and right. In the same way if a person were going to meet the Queen of England or the President wearing the same clothes they mowed their lawn in, that wouldn't be right either.

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Religion doesn't strictly do this as a matter of course: the intents are good, but that doesn't mean the outcomes are necessarily good either. I'm well aware there are a variety of Christians churches, some more accommodating than others, varying doctrines on issues like homosexuality, etc. I'm talking about religion in terms of the essence: one can make the argument it serves a function that can be achieved otherwise, but that's not relevant here.

Appealing may not be the most precise word: fulfilling would be better. Just because I have a motivation based on self interest doesn't make me egocentric. I don't believe Christianity's claims are true, it wasn't just because I didn't want to go, I wasn't convinced by the arguments and interpretations of a text that, arguably, is a third hand translation.

You're comparing apples and oranges: meeting a dignitary has particular expectations because of the person's status, religion's expectations are rooted in a notion that, not only should we have order in our lives (which I agree with), but that only this teaching about order is accurate, rather than considering praxis as a factor that should be key in our everyday lives, rather than just every Sunday.

muichimotsu said:

not only should we have order in our lives (which I agree with), but that only this teaching about order is accurate, rather than considering praxis as a factor that should be key in our everyday lives, rather than just every Sunday.

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It depends on what church you go to. There are plenty of churches that focus on praxis in everyday life.

Fair point, but the issue is deeper than that: you can appeal to my sensibilities, but that doesn't make the claims more credible. Any church can appeal to particular groups that are tough, but mere glamor and superficial accessibility is secondary, if not tertiary, to why someone would join a group in general.

muichimotsu said:

Fair point, but the issue is deeper than that: you can appeal to my sensibilities, but that doesn't make the claims more credible.

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Dropping the hermeneutic of suspicion would go a long ways towards understanding. Some people really do have sincere beliefs not driven by an agenda to oppress, hurt or demean other people.

Any church can appeal to particular groups that are tough, but mere glamor and superficial accessibility is secondary, if not tertiary, to why someone would join a group in general.

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I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

People join churches for many reasons. Something in the church appeals to them. They believe the doctrines are true, or they like the way the people live, there are many things. Sometimes people feel that's where God has called them to be.

If you are like some people with Asperger's, you probably have a mind used to categorizing things to try to make sense out of them, put them into hierarchies and categories. Perhaps you are looking for an intellectual explanation, an answer, a way to solve life. Some things in life are not solvable with our reason. Learning to rest in the mystery is part of spiritual growth.

Sometimes thinking too much is a curse. That goes against the grain I'm sure, both in our society and the Asperger's temperament, but its true.

FireDragon76 said:

Dropping the hermeneutic of suspicion would go a long ways towards understanding. Some people really do have sincere beliefs not driven by an agenda to oppress, hurt or demean other people.



I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

People join churches for many reasons. Something in the church appeals to them. They believe the doctrines are true, or they like the way the people live, there are many things. Sometimes people feel that's where God has called them to be.

If you are like some people with Asperger's, you probably have a mind used to categorizing things to try to make sense out of them, put them into hierarchies and categories. Perhaps you are looking for an intellectual explanation, an answer, a way to solve life. Some things in life are not solvable with our reason. Learning to rest in the mystery is part of spiritual growth.

Sometimes thinking too much is a curse. That goes against the grain I'm sure, both in our society and the Asperger's temperament, but its true.

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First off, I'm pretty sure I didn't say that everyone had some agenda: some people are just easily swayed, Aspies or not. Sincerity of beliefs is not sufficient for me, and it's not overthinking, it's having standards that are more than warm and fuzzy feelings and pure sentiment.

I wouldn't say hierarchies, but categories are accurate to describe my thinking: my friends know me as someone who makes lists almost constantly and generally is analytical to a fault when I care.

I'm not above acknowledging that there is a mystery to life, but I'm not going to just be satisfied with not seeking an answer, even if I never find it. Ignotum per ignotius, mysterious explained by more mystery, is something I absolute abhor, because it's intellectually lazy.

There's thinking too much in an unnecessary fashion and then there's having a critical mind: the nuance escapes me occasionally, of course, but I regard most claims with skepticism, especially in regards to qualifiers like "only" and "always". For example, someone posted a video on FB of a huntsman spider and said they were only in Japan. A quick google search already confirmed that they're fairly common across the world or at least can be found in various other regions.

I don't see the issue with the OP's husband being skeptical: he could afford to be nicer, of course, but if there are irreconcilable differences, divorce is technically an option. Or we always have the Bible verse that more directly says that you shouldn't be married to an unbeliever. 2 Corinthians 6: 14.

muichimotsu said:

Sincerity of beliefs is not sufficient for me, and it's not overthinking, it's having standards that are more than warm and fuzzy feelings and pure sentiment.

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Religious beliefs are not always based on warm and fuzzy feelings. I came to my faith through critical thought as an adult. I was baptized as a child of course, but I was not raised in anything but a nominally religious home.

But even then, feelings have their place, and they are just as valid a way to experience reality.

my friends know me as someone who makes lists almost constantly and generally is analytical to a fault when I care.

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That's OK but don't neglect holistic thinking also. Things are more than the sum of their parts.

A great intellect should always serve a great good. That's one way to keep it from becoming a curse

I don't see the issue with the OP's husband being skeptical: he could afford to be nicer, of course, but if there are irreconcilable differences, divorce is technically an option.

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In my experience there are quite a few Aspies openly contemptuous of religious beliefs, and insensitive to what they mean to other people. A little compassion goes a long ways there, since the person with Asperger's often has trouble understanding the social implications of contempt.

For the OP, truly it is a cross to bear and something to pray to God about, and have faith that he will not let you bear more than you can handle. Divorce should be the last option, one only used if you find yourself attacked emotionally and spiritually and unable to cope. Sometimes people that deride Christian do so from a place of insecurity about their own beliefs- the sincerity in something they themselves cannot verify offends them.