Why does Jesus pray to himself, praise himself, plead with himself?

alexiscurious said:

Jesus praying to himself
Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

Jesus praising himself
Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Jesus pleading with himself
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Can anyone explain to me why Jesus needs to pray to himself? How about praising himself and pleading with himself? It seems quite unproductive and unusual. I don't understand why he would do any of these things if he was already God.

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Remember. God is the father son and Holy Ghost. Jesus came down to earth as a human being with feelings. When he was praying he was praying to God not himself. Although I understand where you coming from...
Jesus was not praying to Himself. We see in Scripture, Jesus praying to the Father (John 17). We see Him addressing another person who is called God. We see Jesus saying, "Not my will, but your will be done" (Luke 22:42) when he addressed God the Father.
Also to understand that Jesus as God on earth praying to His Father in heaven, both the eternal father and the eternal son had an eternal relationship before Jesus took upon Himself the form of a man. Please read John 5:19-27, particularly verse 23 where Jesus teaches that the Father sent the Son (also see John 15:10). Jesus did not become the Son of God when He was born in Bethlehem. He has always been the Son of God from eternity past, and he still is the Son of God,

alexiscurious said:

Jesus praying to himself
Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

Jesus praising himself
Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Jesus pleading with himself
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Can anyone explain to me why Jesus needs to pray to himself? How about praising himself and pleading with himself? It seems quite unproductive and unusual. I don't understand why he would do any of these things if he was already God.

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It goes to the Trinitarian nature of God. Jesus is the son, and he directs his prayers to the Father.

alexiscurious said:

Jesus praying to himself
Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

Jesus praising himself
Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Jesus pleading with himself
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Can anyone explain to me why Jesus needs to pray to himself? How about praising himself and pleading with himself? It seems quite unproductive and unusual. I don't understand why he would do any of these things if he was already God.

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This isn't complicated unless one wishes to attempt to make God a 'trinity'.

Jesus wasn't praying to Himself, He was praying to His God and Father. The same God and Father He shared with Mary, the Apostles and you and I.

alexiscurious said:

Jesus praying to himself
Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

Jesus praising himself
Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Jesus pleading with himself
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Can anyone explain to me why Jesus needs to pray to himself? How about praising himself and pleading with himself? It seems quite unproductive and unusual. I don't understand why he would do any of these things if he was already God.

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I think most believe in "the trinity" ... but it has to be one of the most confusing doctrines. instead of trying to make sense of doctrines like that, I just focus on the things that are easy to understand. In all seriousness, I do not believe I will be condemned to hell on the day of judgment because I did not understand all the ins and outs of God the Father, Christ his son and the Holy Spirit. Rather, I will be judged on "I was hungry and you fed me, naked and you clothed me, etc" the simple teachings of Christ, who is the way, and whether or not I was faithful with what was right in front of me.

ServantOfOurLord said:

I think most believe in "the trinity" ... but it has to be one of the most confusing doctrines. instead of trying to make sense of doctrines like that, I just focus on the things that are easy to understand. In all seriousness, I do not believe I will be condemned to hell on the day of judgment because I did not understand all the ins and outs of God the Father, Christ his son and the Holy Spirit. Rather, I will be judged on "I was hungry and you fed me, naked and you clothed me, etc" the simple teachings of Christ, who is the way, and whether or not I was faithful with what was right in front of me.

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Yes, I agree. Most believe in the Trinity. I don't think any of us fully understand the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Doesn't mean that we can't be brothers in sisters in Christ though.

justlookinla said:

Yes, I agree. Most believe in the Trinity. I don't think any of us fully understand the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Doesn't mean that we can't be brothers in sisters in Christ though.

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Right. Jesus said his brothers and sisters are those who do the will of the Father.

ServantOfOurLord said:

I think most believe in "the trinity" ... but it has to be one of the most confusing doctrines. instead of trying to make sense of doctrines like that, I just focus on the things that are easy to understand. In all seriousness, I do not believe I will be condemned to hell on the day of judgment because I did not understand all the ins and outs of God the Father, Christ his son and the Holy Spirit. Rather, I will be judged on "I was hungry and you fed me, naked and you clothed me, etc" the simple teachings of Christ, who is the way, and whether or not I was faithful with what was right in front of me.

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Your post has to do with not only the concept of trinity, but Prayer.
Its curious to think about the Lord's body and the things he withstood. I don't personally know anyone who fasted 40days without food; that's quite a human feat. I do remember reading of someone who accomplished it but he ended up losing most of his body weight and was thin to the bone.
Then I remember that the Lord healed diseases and cured the blind so just what was impossible for the Lord? That brings me to Luke 6.12 that you quoted. The Lord did not sleep all night and at daybreak, went and preached his famous sermon on the mount. I remember too that his disciples tired easily and slept while the Lord prayed at the Mt of Olives.
Furthermore, at the site of transfiguration and at a time when he was in prayer, his body changed or was enveloped by a Shekinah glory. Scripture points out that he was strengthened by these prayer-events where the glory appeared.
My point is the Lord had (has) supernatural physical characteristics, and I touched on his ability to fast, remain awake, and have his body transformed by that Shekinah glory. I have to assume that the Lord's prayer time meant an actual "mind meld" or "spirit meld" if you would allow. I don't have actual evidence for this nor do I know what to call it. It is not like my prayer time nor yours nor anyone else's. I think it is obvious from scripture that something happened between the Father and Son during the Son's prayer times, when he would be strengthened. At times some viewed the experience and described what they saw as a "transfiguration".

Jesus is unique; fully man yet fully God. However, when he was here on earth he didn't rely on his own divinity. He came and lived as a human and had to pray to the Father for strength and help in the same way as us.

Jesus “emptied himself by taking on the form of a slave, by looking like other men, and by sharing in human nature.”
- Philippians 2:7 (NET).

In order words, he didn't “cheat” by using miracles on behalf of himself, he had to live with the same weaknesses and limitations as ourself. As the “Son of Man” he was in need of prayer and this is an important lesson for us. If a sinless and holy being needs prayer, how much more don't we need prayer?

alexiscurious said:

I didn't know one person of the trinity has to rely on another person of the trinity to get their strength and power. Still seems quite unusual to me but as ViaCrucis mentioned no one is qualified to say how a divine-human person should act. You only touched on one of the things I mentioned though. Could you explain why Jesus, who is fully aware that he is an eternal being, pleads with God the Father to not let him die? Why is an eternal being showing such cowardice when faced with death if he is fully aware that he will pop right back up in a few days?

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Where does he "plead with Gd to not let him die?" I see him saying the following...
"He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."- Mathew 26.42

You already have an opinion of Jesus, you call him a coward. Im not in a position to convince you otherwise, sorry.

I will leave you with this question. Is the "cup" the same "cup" of the new covenant mentioned a few verses prior, in Mathew 26.27? What is the significance of the "cup".
Keep in mind this is spiritually based; you are not qualified to understand its signficance as a non-christian. The Bible is not a textbook but its pages are filled with the Living Word of God. Living as in interactive. Meditation required.

alexiscurious said:

When I ask a question, I'd normally look to see an answer. But I don't see one here.

Do you need me to define what pleading is? The verse clearly indicates that he is begging God to spare him from death. If you can't answer my original question then please say so.

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We dont see things the same way. I dont see him begging to be spared from death... on the contrary i see him desiring to fulfill the mission. He asks to have the cup taken from away. There is a significance here that you dont get. Im trying to get you to look at the cup.

alexiscurious said:

I guess we don't. I see an eternal being (who is fully aware that death can't hurt him) sweating blood and pleading not to be killed. Something seems awfully suspicious here.

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But you know too that he could have changed his position and not gone thru with it. He was given several opportunities in from of Pilate and before that with the Chief israeli priests.
The point of the cup is this: The Lord is not as concerned over having to go thru the torture and crucifixion, as he is with having to drink of the cup.
In Jeremiah and isaiah, we read occasions when God destined certain groups to drink from the cup of his wrath. I will leave you with just this since you will not understand the significance. Read the passages that mention the cup, delve into the context, study the significance.

Masihi said:

But you know too that he could have changed his position and not gone thru with it. He was given several opportunities in from of Pilate and before that with the Chief israeli priests.
The point of the cup is this: The Lord is not as concerned over having to go thru the torture and crucifixion, as he is with having to drink of the cup.
In Jeremiah and isaiah, we read occasions when God destined certain groups to drink from the cup of his wrath. I will leave you with just this since you will not understand the significance. Read the passages that mention the cup, delve into the context, study the significance.

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Masihi, can you please list those passages you are mentioning?

oi_antz said:

Masihi, can you please list those passages you are mentioning?

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There are several cups in the old testament. The cup of salvation, cup of wrath, cup of derision, cup of trembling... of course the individual interpretation of scriptures should not be shared with others in the open. Id rather not go into what I think.
Only one thing, i think the Lord drank from the cup he was supposed to drink just before being arrested. From the moment of his arrest, he was abandoned by All.

Masihi said:

There are several cups in the old testament. The cup of salvation, cup of wrath, cup of derision, cup of trembling... of course the individual interpretation of scriptures should not be shared with others in the open. Id rather not go into what I think.
Only one thing, i think the Lord drank from the cup he was supposed to drink just before being arrested. From the moment of his arrest, he was abandoned by All.

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Thanks. I am most sensitive right now to the ideas of Substitutionary Atonement being conveyed as truth, and this was meant to help you clarify that you are giving reliable advice. It also did not seem right to tell someone they should learn something but not give them any help with that. You spoke as though OP had been taught what you are describing, but that isn't fair. Alex is not well educated in Christianity and is trying to figure it out because he can see that some people have managed to figure it out, but those ones who haven't and just believe what they be;ieve are confusing him. I know you can help.

alexiscurious said:

Jesus praying to himself
Luke 6:12
One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

Jesus praising himself
Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Jesus pleading with himself
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Can anyone explain to me why Jesus needs to pray to himself? How about praising himself and pleading with himself? It seems quite unproductive and unusual. I don't understand why he would do any of these things if he was already God.

Click to expand...

Hi, Curious Alex

Jesus came to be our example, of what we need to do . . . to pray to God, to talk with God, to thank God. As a God Person the Son, Jesus is the One qualified to be our example

Also, Jesus went through things of this life so now He can feel for us and help us with how to deal with things >

"For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

Jesus went through all that He did, so now He our Groom and High Priest can feel for us and help us with the grace which got Him through it all. And this is included in His example > how now we as Christians use things we go through, in order to help us to feel for and help others, instead of just being victims of our things and on the defensive. We see even hard and tragic things as opportunities to help us get into loving with other people

Also, the Bible says "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16). Love has more than one Person And in love we communicate and depend on each other, not because we really might need each other, but because we so desire to be with one another. So, prayer is not begging, but sharing. If you have had people who you so enjoy and appreciate, you might talk and do things with each other, even when there was no "reason" or "need" Prayer can be like this - - - in love's prayer > we are not trying only to "use" God, but we pray because we want to be with Him in His love, most of all > 1 Corinthians 6:17, Jude 20-21.

It is God's nature to have creative and loving things to do. Each of us does things because of who we are and how we are. The Bible gives us good things for sharing. And Jesus came partly in order to be our example of how to be and how to share with God and how to love any and all people, in His caring and sharing Family love.

As I offer > love has more than one Person. We see how the first Person is called "our Father" > "Father" is the name of a Family caring and sharing Person. Also, "Son" is the name of a Family caring and sharing Person. And God made us humans in His image, and we as humans are a family being, with mankind being made up of more than one kind of family person . . . in the image of God. So, you can have a being who is more than one person > God is more than one, and mankind is more than one, and a family is more than one person. Family love has more than one person.

Along with this > the Bible says Jesus is "the image of God", in 2 Corinthians 4:4. You can have an image of gold, but there is gold elsewhere than that image. And gold can be in the form of more than one person. This does not mean there are many golds. There is but one gold, but it is in different images and it can flow to make new images.

But "God is love" > love is alive and worth so much more than gold. And He is forming into Jesus in each of us who are His children, so we can have Jesus as our new inner Person > Galatians 4:19&2:20, Colossians 1:27-29, 2 Corinthians 3:17-18. And Jesus in our hearts shares with us how He relates with our Father and loves any and all people, while relating in Family love with one another >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

alexiscurious said:

Why does he need to communicate with God the Father? What benefit could he possibly receive from praying?

I find his actions to be incredibly suspicious and not God-like at all, especially in the third example I mentioned. Why is an eternal being showing such cowardice when confronted with death? And why is he begging for it to be avoided? Are you sure we are not dealing with a man here?

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God is relational. He did not need to create angels and man made in His image. He was already perfectly sufficient and content with Himself. But He desired to. And that is because it is His nature to give. He is the prototypical "cheerful giver". He takes pleasure in giving us pleasure.

Love is the "perfect bond of unity", and the Trinity is a perfect union bound by perfect love. It is natural that Jesus would want to commune with His Father during His mission on earth.

It was not cowardice that prompted Jesus to ask if His cup could have been deferred. Prior to this, during the last supper, Jesus told His friends that He would no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until He drank it in the Kingdom. He experienced all the agony of the scourging and crucifixion - essentially being tortured to death - without aid of any dulling of pain, even though they were available and evidently normally given to the dying on request. He experienced it all.

But as horrible as that is, it is only a type of what was really going on. During His passion Jesus experienced spiritual separation from the Father. This is why He cried out, "Why have You abandoned me?".

Imagine for a moment what total separation from God entails. Think of the darkest, most loathsome evil enveloping you, with no hope of escape. Now consider that we in this fallen world have our senses dulled by sin and error. We have never beheld the unspeakably beautiful face of God, or abided directly in the fulness of His presence. Jesus did. And He went into His passion with no dulling of His spiritual senses. All the weight of sin was going to be loaded onto Him, and He would bear it fully.

This was no normal death, and it was no cowardice to dread it. It's easy to observe it from a safe distance and critique it, until you begin to understand what was actually going on. Then one is overwhelmed with awe and humility.