Discussion I buy a spade to dig a hole ,a broom to sweep a floor ...

probinson said:

Well, I'm glad no one here is saying that you shouldn't use gun control, but it's simply not true that no one is saying that you shouldn't use gun control. There are plenty of people who think there should be no gun control.



That's quite possible. I'm sure you're all wonderfully nice people just sharing your opinions and thoughts on the topic of guns.

All I know is that I'm hearing an awful lot of the gun lobby's talking points parroted in this discussion.

Click to expand...

As you are simply parroting the talking points of the anti gun lobby.

ToBeLoved said:

I disagree. The who buys a gun if not to shoot someone statements were the silliest.

Click to expand...

I'd agree that was a silly statement. I don't think people who buy guns have some hidden desire to kill another person that they're repressing.

But the folks who say, "Guns don't kill people. People kill people" are pretty silly too. It would be more accurate (roughly 67% accurate in the United States) to say, "Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people."

Simply Put said:

As you are simply parroting the talking points of the anti gun lobby.

Click to expand...

If you say so.

I've had discussions like this for years. I tend to upset both the gun lobby and the anti gun lobby equally with my opinions, which is probably a pretty good indicator that I don't tow either party line.

probinson said:

Some people may believe that, but I don't. As I said, I have plenty of family members who have guns. They mostly use them to hunt since we're all in PA, but not one of them would argue against the idea that the intended purpose of a gun is to kill (setting sport shooting aside, since what we're talking about "protection" and "deterrents")

Click to expand...

Well there ya go in your very own words.

You have listed four intended purposes of a gun

to kill
sport shooting
protection
deterrents

Now let's talk reality. Who or what determines how the inanimate object is purposed? The gun doesn't have the ability, because it doesn't think, doesn't have a decision or thought process does it.

Pro gun / anti gun let's leave them aside - lets use the sense God gave a six year old.

The person using the inanimate object determines the purpose of the object by their intentions.

If they intend to shoot targets, the the intended purpose is shooting targets.

If they intend to hunt animals, then intended use is hunting animals.

If they intend to shoot competitively, then the intended purpose is to shoot competition

If they intend to to use it in self defense, then the intended purpose is self defense

If they intend to use it as a deterrent, then the intended purpose is to be a deterrent

If they intend to murder someone with it, the intended purpose is murder.

There in more that one intended purpose of a gun. The intended purpose is determined by the individual using it.

I' not sure why you cannot reconcile that.

probinson said:

If you say so.

I've had discussions like this for years. I tend to upset both the gun lobby and the anti gun lobby equally with my opinions, which is probably a pretty good indicator that I don't tow either party line.

Click to expand...

That's news to me. You have always come out against guns. And your comment are hook line and sinker talking points from the anti gun lobby.

A good read from the book Arguing with Idiots:

http://download.premiereradio.net/guest/glennbeck/Gun Control Chapter Arguing Print.pdf

Simply Put said:

Here's the issue I have with those extremist anti gun folks. They can view only one aspect of gun ownership, they focus on murder so much that they honestly believe gun owners sit and polish their weapons, imagining their next victim as they look down the sites. To them, there is only one use, one 'intended purpose' and that is to kill!

Basically, they are so jaded by their belief system that they can only see gun ownership as the desire to murder.

So here are the murderers:

Olympic skeet shooter?

No, he is imagining killing his next victim.

Olympic Marksman champion?

No he sees a child's head exploding. It's not about the sport, it's about killing right?

Don't let the pony tail fool you!

Her heart is set on murder

Scouting fun event?

No, just a group of under age murderers.


Because after all, there is only one intended purpose for a gun.

Click to expand...

Alithis said:

my my yes these are all people filed with the holy Ghost and born again of the Spirit of God sincerely seeking to further the Gospel by training in bible study and preaching and giving themselves to the work of the Lord in love and humility for the lost ...

of course they are not .. this is a completely out of context post in regard to the thread Topic -

Click to expand...

How is it out of context? Your point all along was that people buy guns to kill people. What I see in his posts are people that are not using guns to kill people. Totally relevant.

Alithis said:

to have an honest reply before God we must allow the Holy Spirit to reveal to us the true nature of our heart on ANY and ALL maters of this life .

Click to expand...

That is interesting. So many people here are talking about how as spirit filled believers they feel about guns and you seem to be telling them how to feel about guns by feeling the same as you do.

That is not a spirit filled believer finding out from the Spirit. This is a spirit filled believer sharing their own opinion and telling others how they should believe. Too bad not everyone shares your opinion. Bummer.

ToBeLoved said:

That is interesting. So many people here are talking about how as spirit filled believers they feel about guns and you seem to be telling them how to feel about guns by feeling the same as you do.

That is not a spirit filled believer finding out from the Spirit. This is a spirit filled believer sharing their own opinion and telling others how they should believe. Too bad not everyone shares your opinion. Bummer.

Click to expand...

QFT

Simply Put said:

That's news to me. You have always come out against guns. And your comment are hook line and sinker talking points from the anti gun lobby.

Click to expand...

I think you must not know any serious anti gun lobby folks if you think my comments echo theirs.

Simply Put said:

Well there ya go in your very own words.

You have listed four intended purposes of a gun

to kill
sport shooting
protection
deterrents

Click to expand...

Actually of those you listed, there are only 2 intended purposes; To kill and sport shooting.

If you intend to use that gun for protection or as a deterrent, then you'd better be prepared to shoot it at someone, or at the very least make them believe that you will. If you're not prepared to use the gun to wound or kill someone, it doesn't provide any form of "protection", nor is it a "deterrent".

So these are all of the intended purposes of a gun that I can think of;

• Sport
• To kill
  
• To wound
• Collecting

Feel free to add others. I suppose maybe to hang on the wall as home decor?

But this is all really a big distraction from the original point I raised. You said that someone killed another person with a shovel and then posited the question, "Should we ban all shovels?" because someone misused that shovel. But when a person uses a gun to kill someone, they're using it just as it was intended.

Speaking of the common sense God gave a six year old... a shovel is intended to dig. A car is intended to drive. A match is intended to start a fire. A gun (in the context of being used as a form of "protection" or a "deterrent") is intended to wound or kill. I'm not sure why you dispute that.

Alithis said:

laughing .. - im not telling anyone to think anything .im asking them to open their hearts and be honest before God .. TO God .
this is the part where folks turn it personal to avoid searching their own harts ..oh its about me and what im doing now is it?
lol ..
its so often either what they over there are doing or about what im doing over here .. etc .. the point is ..- it's between you and the lord .deal with that .. but we always rush to defend that which is a treasure unto us and that always displays where our heart is .
for" where our treasure is there will our heart be also " ..that is not my conviction. that is the word of God and it is faithful and true and He is faithful to it .

Click to expand...

Unless someone turns something into an idol or kills someone, I don't see much reason to examine their heart as you have said.

The verse that you quote on "where our treasure is there heart will be also" is talking about major moral and spiritual things. Like honesty, abstinence, loving God. It is REALLY taking it out of context to put it in a discussion about whether a Christian owns a gun or whether someone shoots a gun for sport or hunting purposes.

That is really using scripture out of context.

Alithis said:

out of context reply . read the entire thread and you will see soldiers and police are excluded as they are tools for their trade .. tel me how many white collar workers go out an buy a pneumatic nail gun ? extremely few! ..it is a tool designed for a specific purpose and their trade does not require it . the topic is concerning all those who are in trades or services of employment or self employed (like mothers )where a hand gun is not a requirement of the job.. etc
but you knew that ...

Click to expand...

Since providing for my family is something required of me as a father, then couldn't gun ownership also be considered as a legitimate tool for me to use in my role as well? Police use guns to provide security, soldiers use guns to provide security, Private, or non-governmental, guards use guns to provide security. Where is the disconnect that a father might also require a gun to provide security as well? You seem to have no issues with others in the same roles using them.

Would it be acceptable then if I hired an armed bodyguard, or off-duty police officer, to shoot someone in the process of threatening my family? Since it would be a requirement of the job they are being paid for, it would be ok then, right? I can hire a gun, but I just can't hold one myself?

Alithis said:

some don't see much reason to examine the heart at all.... thats hardly a good thing ...

Click to expand...

Is that an excuse for why you used that scripture so out of context? Is it like two wrongs make a right? I believe that we have a duty to present scripture as it was intended and within context. Not to coerce people into doing and believing that it says something it does not. The Holy Spirit doesn't do that to us, so why is it ok to do it to others?

The Holy Spirit is very patient with us.