I need help about the rapture

Afraid I can't help you: I'm not pre-trib.

I agree that the false prophets saying "the end is soon" are harmful.

Youtube is something you use with caution
because anybody can post whatever they want
on there.

The Lord wants His Children to abide in the true vine not Youtube, google etc.

You can get too wrapped up in end-times studies, angel studies or whatever.

Shouldn't we be about the Lord's business? sharing the Good News of the Gospel, reflecting agape, helping our "neighbor"; visiting/caring for: the sick, those in prison, helping widows, orphans etc?

Too many have gotten off-track chasing after end-times this or that... caught up in debating the different positions: post, pre, mid etc.

Too much debating and not enough folks being
about the Lord's business...reaching the lost, sharing the Good News, serving/helping others
and so forth.
A snippet taken from Luke 10:2:
"The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few."


The Lord will return "soon"...according to His
"time table":
2 Peter 3:8
"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

I don't believe in a pre trib rapture personally, based on what I see going on around the world with Christian persecution and my research in the Bible. There are many resources preaching pre trib, post trib, mid trib, prewrath (what I believe, which means when Messiah returns to turn His enemies to toast, after the dead in Him are raised) all over the place. Then there is the Bible. See if you can find any of those positions without reading invisible words between the lines and w/o anyone saying, "What this really means is....." I personally think the Bible says what it means and means what is says and does not leave it up to us, and "Biblical experts", to decided what it is saying. Nevertheless, those who have heavily research this topic can save us some time - as long as we don't neglect reading the Bible ourselves, too.

I pray you will be given a spirit of research that leads you to the truth of the Bible in general.
I pray you will be given peace and patience in waiting Messiah's return.

Fireheart,

The end-time prophecies were given as a warning to us of the need to endure, and as encouragement that our redemption is drawing nigh as the world gets worse. While it is good to be conversant in these things it is not good to be obsessed with them, as many are. Often I see a pre-tribulation mentality that believes we are going to escape hard times. This is emphatically contrary to the history of the church, including the horrors large swaths of the church are experiencing even now, and if believers are coming away with that escapist mindset it is going to harm them when reality hits, because they will be ill-prepared for suffering.


I personally prefer a pre-wrath (mid-tribulation) understanding of these things, which I find more consistent with the full counsel of God. And I often point out to people who I feel are too focused on end times prophecy the extremely important point that one does not need to go through the Great Tribulation in order to go through great tribulation.

There may be periods of silence to get our attention, but I do not believe that God stays silent for too long. Perhaps more focus on Him and His present purposes and less on emerging events would be the best way forward.

Blessings,
Paul

Perfect.

Jesus said that only the father knows when the end of time will come. I doubt that He will tell anybody on Earth the things that He won't reveal to Heaven.

Blessings,

Alan

Yep.
I think those pre-tribbers rapture teachers are harmful to your faith. I wouldnt listen, what do they know anyway. You have the smarts to read the Bible and let the holy spirit teach you himself.

It will all happen on Gods timing, so, just be doing His will and you wont need to worry.

FireHeart said:

Oh believe me I understand fully not to become obsessed with it I have been there done that and I can't bear to go down that road again lol. Honestly I decided to simply wait on the Lord and to focus on him. Honestly he is the only one who can convince me anyways so when he decides to answer if he decides to answer i will be listening

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why are you in such a hurry to go? why do you think He hasn't answered? these questions are linked...

what do you base your beliefs about the rapture on? is it what you've learned from reading God's word, or what others have told you it says? remember all those rewards that Revelations talks about for those who overcome? if you leave too soon, you won't get any of that...what if there's a 'false rapture' first - a demon disguised as Jesus to lead people to their doom - would you be able to tell the difference?

maybe it's mercy that the rapture hasn't happened yet - to give people more time to find out for themselves what God has said or not said about the rapture...

Like others have said, one way I keep my sanity is not to worry about things over which I have zero influence. In the meantime, I'll just try to do my (crude) best to try to help people get through this hot mess called life. I've found that the more outward-focused I am, the less concerned I am with how jacked up my surroundings are or how long they're going to last.

"Thank you, Bass4, that was this thread's least-helpful reply so far."

(There, I said it for ya! LOL........)

Bass4Jesus said:

Like others have said, one way I keep my sanity is not to worry about things over which I have zero influence. In the meantime, I'll just try to do my (crude) best to try to help people get through this hot mess called life. I've found that the more outward-focused I am, the less concerned I am with how jacked up my surroundings are or how long they're going to last.

"Thank you, Bass4, that was this thread's least-helpful reply so far."

(There, I said it for ya! LOL........)

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Not the least helpful at all, IMO. The bottom line isn't when Jesus will get us out of here. The bottom line is that He came here to give us abundant life, even while we are still here. So we can have a great life, even though the world is not our home and is largely in chaos. We all need to stay open to that and let Him lead us to the fulfilling life He brought us here to live. I think at times, as Christians, we can get caught up in thinking it's selfish to pursue our destiny or sweetspot where we'll be fulfilled, but the truth is that it's unintentionally selfish not to pursue it, because our God-given sweet spot is where we are using our gifts to help others. And it's totally fulfilling, or at least as fulfilled as we can be this side of Heaven.

People need to be careful what they believe and what they mock because God does listen to what we keep telling others and have no problem granting us what we want to believe, even if it's not inline with the bible.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
11 And so God sends the power of error to work in them so that they believe what is false. 12 The result is that all who have not believed the truth, but have taken pleasure in sin, will be condemned.

Many people think the two witnesses testify in the first half of the tribulation, others believe they testify during the second half of the tribulation, but no one agree they preach after the tribulation.

Many people think there's two Day of the Lord, that Christ's return comes in two stages. Others believe there's only one Day of the Lord, which happens at the end of the tribulation. Well, you be the judge.

Malachi 4
1 The Lord Almighty says, “The day is coming when all proud and evil people will burn like straw. On that day they will burn up, and there will be nothing left of them. 2 But for you who obey me, my saving power will rise on you like the sun and bring healing like the sun's rays. You will be as free and happy as calves let out of a stall. 3 On the day when I act, you will overcome the wicked, and they will be like dust under your feet.

4 “Remember the teachings of my servant Moses, the laws and commands which I gave him at Mount Sinai for all the people of Israel to obey. 5 “But before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes, I will send you the prophet Elijah. 6 He will bring fathers and children together again; otherwise I would have to come and destroy your country.”

Malachi 4 tells us the two witnesses comes on the Day of the Lord. And we also know they will prophecies for 1260 days, (3 1/2 years) Rev 11:3.

So those that thinks there's only one Day of the Lord and it only happens at the end of the tribulation, there's a bit of a conflict with that theology. You be the judge.

Amillenialism is the view most widely affirmed in Christianity today. Perhaps some research on this topic would be beneficial - real history & tradition. Avoid propaganda websites & videos, which seem to have misinformed you & planted unhealthy thoughts, dreams, etc.

We are called to participate in God's Kingdom here & now - to feed the hungry, to care for the sick, to "love our neighbors." Let this focus replace the other.

Good luck.

The return of Jesus is our promise. The Bible says we do not know the day or hour (the reason being all the different time zones - Monday here is Wednesday elsewhere - so we can't know the day or hour) but the Bible tells us to watch for the signs. The signs are everyplace. Israel will be the time clock. Watch them closely. The Bible says Israel will stand alone - they are alone now since Obama has turned his back on Israel. The middle east is ready to blow up and the wars spoken of in the Bible are beginning. The Bible says that in the end times we will live in lawlessness - we are there. The Bible says that in the end times you will search for Jesus but will not find Him - we are there - they are kicking Jesus out of everything and everyplace. The Bible says we will call right wrong and wrong right - we are there. We are living in the 5th seal now and the 6th seal will bring the Rapture. The Bible says that Jesus will come in the clouds and his angels will gather all of his elect - that is not the second coming - when Jesus comes the second time, the Bible says His feet will set down where they left off, that will be at the end of the 7 year tribulation.

Just hang in there and keep the faith and witness to as many people as possible because we are coming to the end of the age.

FireHeart, you have a very sound foundation to build on. I believe you regarding your dream. Many if not most do not receive assurance that strong.
You seem to think He has abandoned you, yet it is a promise that your faith will be tried and your are now witness to that. He does chastise every believer and it is because He loves you and you could liken what you are now going through as a trying of your faith. This is how He builds you up to do good works to His glory and you can be certain this chastisement will result in you having stronger faith.
Hang on to the assurance He gave you and tell Him often how greatful you are that He revealed such a wonderful Truth to you and dwell on it all day every day as you go about your usual ways.
As others have pointed out, I'm not convinced He would have your head filled with the teachings of man such as the abundance of youtube videos and "religious" tv shows. I've found for myself personally that focusing on those teachers will have you veering off in every direction. In my opinion it is vital that you stick with Scripture and it will build you up and the dreams you had will give you the hope so many do not have. You know in your heart whether or not these were from God and if they were it tells me that you needed that reassurance to strengthen you for perhaps a very difficult time to come upon you. It has been my experience that whenever He blesses me beyond my expectations He has a great trial for me that will in the end mean much treasures stored up for me when I go to be with Him, and your life will eventually become a channel through which Jesus will use you to reach many that will come to Him to His Glory.
In James chapter one He tells you: My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
What you are going through now is because He loves you.
I, too, believe in pretrib. Hold fast to that revelation and march ahead with that reassurance. He is still with you and will always be.

I was raised believing in this rapture/premillenial dispensationalism business. The evidence of the effects of premillenial dispensationalism on many people is far from good. Anxiety, worry, and depression. I've been there. You convince yourself it's practically pointless to do anything because the 'rapture' will happen soon.

1) We're told in Matthew, I believe, to not worry.
2) Live in the moment- do not constantly live in the future- as that is no life. Persevere in the faith. Take each day as it comes. Plan for the future, but don't obsess over it.
3) No matter what this life may bring us, God will give us a way through it. Do not despair.
4) Fear doesn't come from God. If you're being taught things that cause you to fear, then you need to question whether you're being taught correctly. Some groups take a grain of truth and warp it beyond recognition.

The rapture is a convoluted doctrine invented in the 19th century and made popular in America with the advent of the Scofield Study Bible- while the second coming is a straightforward thing mentioned in scripture that all Christians believe. They are NOT the same thing.

Generally, in churches that speak explicitly of the 'rapture', they consider that a separate event from the Second Coming of Christ. The rapture is this secret event where Christians are whisked away, escaping things while the world goes to pot. So, you essentially have the secret Second Coming of Christ and the visible Second Second Coming of Christ according to most 'rapture' believers.

This is not a view that is accepted by historical Christianity. We call it dispensationalism- and most adhere to the premillenialist variety- and it is commonly attributed to John Nelson Darby- and has only really become popular since his time. The majority of the world's Christians don't believe this and never have historically.

If you think all of that is confusing- you're not alone. I was raised with that view- and I'm pretty sure I still don't understand it. Reading the scriptures used to justify said belief and looking at all the various charts out there doesn't really help. I only think it makes things more confusing.

People confuse the 'rapture' doctrine with the second coming all the time- and the difference needs to be pointed out for the sake of clarity. Half the time in these threads- there isn't a lot of distinction made- but a whole lot of confusion. To reject the 'rapture' is not to necessarily reject the other. BTW, how can you call something the second coming- when it is really the third (according to the premill view) anyway?

Why isnt he coming soon, like tomorrow?

Because think of all those who dont know the Lord! he is not willing for anyone to perish!!!

That is why you must not worry, you need to be out telling people the gospel. It is no use fretting about these things. In His mercy and his timing He will return. We dont know when all the people that God wants saved will enter into his grace and all the people who dont have heard and still do not repent. Only God knows when that day or hour that is. But we must be doing our bit and looking forward to that day, and sharing Jesus love with everyone we know. Before its too late. And you need to be walking with Him and abiding with Him too.

Greetings Fireheart.
For a long time I have been post-trib but now I am starting to understand that I do not really know how it will all happen and I am wondering if a pre-trib rapture is possible. Regarding the different view of the rapture and people debating it, James MacDonald said we should stop trying to be part of the planning committee but we should be involved in the welcoming party.
Back when I was in high school in the late 90s, I was led astray too. I listened to a false prophet/ cult leader on shortwave radio that called himself the "Last Day prophet of God" and he claimed to be God's messenger to announce the second coming of Christ just like John the Baptist was the messenger to announce Jesus' first Advent to the world. Eventually I realized it was false and later discovered he was abusing people that lived on his commune.
However I have not let that past experience ruin my present interest in Bible Prophecy, end times, and the Return of Christ.
So I felt like I would share an experience I had recently. I will copy this testimony that I have been sharing with friends a lot recently:

I have just recently experienced a modern day miracle which I believe is a sign of the times. I bought bumper stickers that say, "Jesus is Coming Soon! Are you ready?" My mom put one sticker on my car but I was not really sure I wanted to put a sticker on my own car because I felt like Jesus might take 1000 years to come back. However I started hearing this song on the radio titled, "Even So Come" and it had the exact words in it over and over again, "Jesus is coming soon!" I felt like that was a sign from God that he wanted me to put the bumper sticker on the car because I started hearing the song on the radio shortly after I bought the bumper stickers. I also think it may be a sign that the events in the Book of Revelation may be really close on the horizon. Christians have told me that God's time is not the same as our time. 1000 years with us is as a day with God, so even if Jesus did take 1000 years to return, it would still be "soon" from God's perspective. However the Bible says that as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days when Jesus comes. Violence was filling the earth in the days of Noah, and the same is true today. Here are the lyrics for the song, "Even so Come." You can also listen to the song on YouTube, it is titled "Even So Come" by Kristian Stanfill:
"All of creation
All of the earth
Make straight a highway
A path for the Lord
Jesus is coming soon

Call back the sinner
Wake up the saint
Let every nation
Shout of Your fame
Jesus is coming soon

Like a bride
Waiting for her groom
We'll be a church
Ready for You
Every heart longing for our King
We sing
Even so come
Lord Jesus come

There will be justice
All will be new
Your name forever
Faithful and true
Jesus is coming soon

So we wait
We wait for You
God we wait
You're coming soon"

I sent this story out to my friends by email and one of my friends replied by saying the following:
"I really hope Jesus will come soon because I am longing so much to be in the presence of God.
I also had these visions in my head. I saw quite a few times white horses. And a few times white horses with wings and angels were riding on them. I know in the revelation it says the angel army will come on white horses and also Jesus rides a white horse in the revelation. I had also a dream and I saw a white horse with wings so very beautiful and someone was sitting on it with white clothes. It was so beautiful I still cannot process this dream. I really hope this means that Jesus will come soon."

Architeuthus said:

Afraid I can't help you: I'm not pre-trib.

I agree that the false prophets saying "the end is soon" are harmful.

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to be fair in the grand scheme of things the end is soon, the bible constantly talks about it being "soon", its just that gods "Soon" and our "soon" are very different. (not that I'm defending false prophets lol)