Design...actual or not and why?

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Davian

Davian

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Oncedeceived said:
First of all I might suggest that this thread might not be for you. This is a thread that is for the unbeliever to address his/her position on the issue and considering how you have an aversion to doing so
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It appears that you have forgotten, but I have made my position clear on this subject; it is neutral, in that I await evidence for actual design.
it might not be something you want to involve your time and effort in.

The fine tuning or the necessary parameters measuring to such fine degrees required for life to exist on earth are what they are and if they were not we were not be here to ponder the subject.
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That the constants are constant is not in dispute.
Is it possible for the parameters being set at other percentages, most astrobiologists/physicists believe that they "could" have been set at various other percentages as there is no evidence of any physical law to prohibit different measurements.
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That is an admission that the possibility of "tuning" is speculation.
Thus, it could be possible for them to be different but they are set the way they are which makes life possible.
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Thus, you are only speculating that tuning was possible.
Like I said, it might not be for you if you are not wanting to give your reasoning for your position, if you have one.
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Davian

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Oncedeceived said:
The reason the All powerful, All knowing God made sure that His design was apparent:
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
He wanted us to know He designed it.
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You drive a Dodge, do you not?

Oncedeceived said:
The Bible is claimed to be inspired by God who therein claims He designed it and that He would leave evidence of His design (it appears designed) for those He created to know He exists.
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Unsubstantiated claim.

Oncedeceived said:
I find this statement rather ironic. In a purely evolutionary universe, there is no physical reason or evolutionary explanation that there be intelligent beings capable of understanding the universe.
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Evolutionary theory is descriptive. It will not address this straw-man argument of yours.

Oncedeceived said:
We are not merely observers to nature's stage but we comprehend and understand the workings of the universe to a great degree. There is no reason that we as observers need to do anything but observe but we do, we understand more than what we could ever understand if we have only existed to survive.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
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Invisible things are clearly seen? Is that like Wonder Woman's invisible jet?

tumblr_lsmijiaytU1qa70eyo1_500.jpg
 
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Davian

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Oncedeceived said:
I would like to know what theory or evidence for evolution there is for the universe.
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Perhaps then you should familiarize yourself with evolutionary theory.
As far as looking naturally evolved, you are looking back in time and explaining what you see. Evolution may be claimed to explain "everything " without a Creator, but that is a claim that is not substantiated, when there are things we simply don't know we can't assume anything about it. It is an assertion that has not been shown by any evidence. To claim that no Creator was needed is to claim you know more than what the evidence is telling you.
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A negative cannot be proven. Is this news to you?
There are many claims, that is why we seek truth. That we know there is truth is to admit the false exists.

Assertion. What specifically are you citing? How do these theories show design is merely appearance and not actual?
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Those theories describe how we may see design where there may not be actual design.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/patternicity-finding-meaningful-patterns/

For those claiming actual design, the burden of evidence would be on them. Are you familiar with the bu...

Nevermind.
 
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Davian

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Oncedeceived said:
Yes, very simple and totally too simple.



You are lumping everything together and asserting nature did it. To see a pattern in the sand and equating it to the inner workings of the cell for instance is a category error.
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Define "God" in a testable, falsifiable manner so as to justify this assertion of a "category error".
 
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Davian

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mnorian said:
One of the design demonstrations. is the periodic table: It is so organized (the design behind the atomic numbers, not the table that man made) that they could tell there had to be missing elements; which they later found.
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Perception of design does not establish actual design.
He is a God of order.
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Or, a god of miracles, where anything is possible? Global floods, moving mountains, inexplicable healings (amputees exempted); which is it? In the bible stories, reality was at the whim of God.
Well, for three; Richard Dawkins, Francis Crick, and Paul Davies.
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How can they prove a negative?
Because the design is also evident in the Bible; the word of God.
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Any religion can make that claim.
Is a person's intellectual integrity worth losing their soul over?
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What is a "soul"?
 
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