The 1st Day of Creation and John 1:1-5....... Perfect Harmony

francus · May 28, 2015

Someone had commented, "I am interested in how you synchronize your doctrine concerning GOD creating The Light with John's version".

And i responded(with additional testimony added):

Such is not "my doctrine" for TRUTH IS! (II Thessalonians 12:10-13)

And i believe you are referring to John 1:1-5 and how John's testimony bears witness to The Messiah being "The Light" begotten of "Our FATHER and GOD" The 1st Day of Creation.

FATHER Help!

(John 1:1) "In the beginning was The Word", "and The Word was with GOD", "and The Word was GOD."
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"In the beginning was The Word"

The 1st Day of Creation was the beginning of The Creation of that which would be the earth and the Heaven above the earth.

And "In the beginning" Our FATHER and GOD(CREATOR) WAS, and HE spoke The(HIS) Word "Let There Be Light" and "There was Light"! Genesis 1:1-3)

"and The Word was with GOD"

GOD spoke The(HIS) Word "Let There Be Light" and The(HIS) Word "Let There Be Light" Created "Light"!

And "The(HIS) Word(HIS Created Light) was WITH GOD", HE WHO IS LIGHT! (Genesis 1:3, I John 1:5)

"and The Word was GOD."

GOD spoke The(HIS) Word "Let There Be Light".......

"The(HIS) Word was GOD" and became Light!

GOD, HE WHO IS LIGHT begot Light!

The Messiah, "The True Light (which reveals The Way to The TRUTH of The Life) which enlightens every man born into this world." (John 1:9; 14:6)

"Yet mankind loves the darkness rather than The Light for their deeds are evil!" (John 3:19)

The Messiah, "The Beginning of The Creation of GOD (Thankfully Our FATHER and GOD)!" (Revelations 3:14, John 20:17)

The Messiah, "The Firstborn of ALL Creation"! (Colossians 1:15)

So it is that The Messiah, The Only Begotten Son of Our FATHER and GOD, testified "The FATHER IS Greater than I", and "I can do nothing of My own self" (John 14:28; 5:19,30; 8:28-29)

http://asimpleandspirituallife.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-messiah-testified-i-can-do-nothing.html

And it needs be REALized that The Messiah received both His Life and His Teachings from Our FATHER and GOD! (John 8:28-29; 12:49-50; 14:10,23-24; 17:8,14)

"The Light", "the glory The Messiah had with Our FATHER and GOD before the world began." (John 17:5)

The Messiah, "The Beginning of The Creation of GOD(Our FATHER)", "The Firstborn of ALL Creation"! (Revelations 3:14, Colossians 1:15)

The Messiah, "Son of GOD, Son of man"! (Matthew 16:16, Luke 22:69)
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(John 1:2-5) "The same(The Light) was in The Beginning(The 1st Day) with GOD. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made. In Him was Life, and The Life was The Light of men. And The Light(The Son of GOD) shinned midst the darkness! And the darkness comprehended it not."

(Ephesians 3:9) "To make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from The Beginning (as in John 1:2) of the world (age{s}) has been hid in Our FATHER and GOD, HE WHO Created ALL things by The Messiah (The{GOD'S}Word "Let There Be Light")!"

(Colossians 1:15-17) "Our FATHER (CREATOR) and GOD created "ALL things" by, of, in and thru The Messiah (The{GOD'S}Word "Let There Be Light)!"
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(John 1:14) "And The{GOD'S}Word ("Let There Be Light") was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His (The Anointed One [Messiah]) glory, the glory as of the only begotten of The FATHER, full of Grace and TRUTH!"

(John 17:5) "The Light" was "the glory The Messiah had with Our FATHER and GOD before the world began......."

And finally it was as The Messiah testified, "He answered and said unto him, "if a man loves Me, he will keep My Words, and My FATHER will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him. He that does not love Me does not keep My sayings, and The WORD which you hear is not Mine, but IS The WORD of Our FATHER and GOD, HE WHO sent Me." (John 14:23-24)

For "I have not spoken of Myself, but The FATHER WHO sent Me, HE gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak"! (John 12:49-50; 5:19,30; 8:28-29; 14:10, 17:8,14)

Thankfully, while breath(spirit, air) is, Hope IS!

For TRUTH IS! and Miracles do happen.......

Hope is there would be those who experience The Miracle that is receiving "a love of The TRUTH", for the day will come when they Truly "see" The Light that is The Messiah....... (II Thessalonians 2:10-13, John 1:9)

Additional testimony concerning The 1st Day of Creation can be read at the links below:

http://asimpleandspirituallife.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-1st-day-of-creation-genesis-11-5.html

http://asimpleandspirituallife.blogspot.com/2010/06/let-there-be-light.html

And thankfully, the brethren of The Messiah have also REALized "i can do nothing of my own self"! And so it is we "cry unto Our FATHER and GOD day and night"....... (John 5:19,30; 8:28-29; 12:49-50; 14:10,23-24; 17:8,14)

http://asimpleandspirituallife.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-messiah-testified-i-can-do-nothing.html

Evermore sounding and resounding a Declaration of Dependence:

http://asimpleandspirituallife.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-declaration-of-dependence.html

FATHER Help!

HE DID! and HE does.......

So Peace IS! in spite of the dis-ease (no-peace/darkness) that is of this evil world and/or religion's way....... (John 14:27; 7:7, I John 5:19; 2:15-17, James 1:27; 4:4, Philippians 4:7)

Thankfully TRUTH IS! a lie is not.......

ALL Thanks and Praise Be Unto Our FATHER(TRUTH, SPIRIT, CREATOR, GOD, LORD, MASTER,,,,,,, ALL IN ALL That Which IS Truly GOOD)!

TomZzyzx · May 28, 2015

Only one problem. John 1:3 presents "the Word" as the uncreated creator of heaven and earth.

"All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

Since God is the only one uncreated then the Word must be God.

ChetSinger · May 28, 2015

Hello Francus!

Are you familiar with the Aramaic Targums? If so, what do you think of the way they substitute "the word of the Lord" for "the Lord" in so many places?

That is, if the rabbis were OK with "the word of the Lord" being a manifestation of the Lord in the Hebrew scriptures, why shouldn't Christians be OK with "the Word of God" being a manifestation of God in the Christian scriptures?

smaneck · May 28, 2015

TomZzyzx said:
Only one problem. John 1:3 presents "the Word" as the uncreated creator of heaven and earth.

"All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

Since God is the only one uncreated then the Word must be God.

Not necessarily. In Neoplatonic philosophy the Logos was the first emanation from God. And then everything else emanates from the Logos. In a sense the Logos is God's active principle, but not the same as God's Being.

francus · May 28, 2015

TomZzyzx said:
Only one problem. John 1:3 presents "the Word" as the uncreated creator of heaven and earth.

"All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

Since God is the only one uncreated then the Word must be God.

Yes, there is a problem, however i believe your problem can be resolved when you see "The Light" that IS The Messiah which reveals, "He is the image of GOD, HE WHO can not be seen, The Firstborn of ALL Creation! (Colossians 1:15)

And a right understanding of Colossians 1:16 reveals, "By(in, of and thru The Created Light) Him (The Messiah) were all things created, that are in Heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers, all things were created by(in, of and thru The Created Light) Him, and for Him!

And The Messiah Himself testifies in Revelations 3:14, that He was "The Beginning of The Creation of ELOHIM (Our FATHER and GOD)"!

For ELOHIM Spoke HIS Word into being, "Let There Be Light!" and "there was Light".......

Then Messiah, "The Beginning of The Creation of Our FATHER and GOD"! (Revelations 3:14)

ALL Thanks and Praise Be Unto Our FATHER(TRUTH, SPIRIT, CREATOR, GOD, LORD, MASTER,,,,,,, ALL IN ALL That Which IS Truly GOOD)!

francus · May 28, 2015

ChetSinger said:
Hello Francus!

Are you familiar with the Aramaic Targums? If so, what do you think of the way they substitute "the word of the Lord" for "the Lord" in so many places?

That is, if the rabbis were OK with "the word of the Lord" being a manifestation of the Lord in the Hebrew scriptures, why shouldn't Christians be OK with "the Word of God" being a manifestation of God in the Christian scriptures?

Sorry for the delay in replying. My wireless service was not functioning for quite some time today.

i don't quite understand your question?

Yet it just came to me that a proper response could be, "Sadly, they abide in the blackness of darkness that is of this evil world and/or religion's way and so it is they can not see The Light that IS The Messiah.......

Masihi · May 29, 2015

hehehehe. I understand this is a sensitive issue with you but I don't see the importance of keeping the Messiah separate from God. For all intents and purposes, Christ is "God" for mankind. He is our mediator, our door to the Father. And Elohim (God) may be a general term to describe more than one. Elohim is differentiated in psalm 82 and Deuteronomy 32 from 'Elyon or the Most High, which I assume is the Father. YHWH I associate with Yeshua but at times I sense the Father and Yeshua.

ChetSinger · May 29, 2015

francus said:
Sorry for the delay in replying. My wireless service was not functioning for quite some time today.

i don't quite understand your question?

Yet it just came to me that a proper response could be, "Sadly, they abide in the blackness of darkness that is of this evil world and/or religion's way and so it is they can not see The Light that IS The Messiah.......

We know the origins of Christianity are in Judaism. So when John called Jesus "the word of God" did that idea originate with him or did it come from his Judaic background?

In answering that question, it can be seen that the idea of "the word of the Lord" as a hypostasis of "the Lord" did already exist in Judaism as seen in the Aramaic Targums. So John, likely familiar with them since his youth, probably deliberately applied that idea to Jesus. This becomes yet another reason why the early Christians, reading John, considered Jesus divine. I wondered if you were familiar with the Targums and what you thought of John's use of their hypostatic language, that's all.

francus · May 29, 2015

ChetSinger said:
We know the origins of Christianity are in Judaism. So when John called Jesus "the word of God" did that idea originate with him or did it come from his Judaic background?

In answering that question, it can be seen that the idea of "the word of the Lord" as a hypostasis of "the Lord" did already exist in Judaism as seen in the Aramaic Targums. So John, likely familiar with them since his youth, probably deliberately applied that idea to Jesus. This becomes yet another reason why the early Christians, reading John, considered Jesus divine. I wondered if you were familiar with the Targums and what you thought of John's use of their hypostatic language, that's all.

"christianity", as ALL religion(except the active Faith of James 1:27), is liken unto a "modern" day judaism, for as judaism, such was and is yet needful for "disobedient and gainsaying (contradicting and opposing GOD)people", who are"stiff-necked and uncircumcised of heart and ears"! (Romans 10:21, Acts 7:51, Exodus 32:9)

A people who "would rather have a man speak to them than Our FATHER and GOD"! And who "would rather a man rule over them than Our FATHER and GOD"! (Exodus 20:19, I Samuel 8:4-21)

So why have your portion in and of religion's way?

For what are the brethren of The Messiah, those who are "son's of Our FATHER and GOD”, if not Family?(Ephesians 3:15, Galatians 6:10, Philippians 2:15)

As for your question?

TRUTH IS simple, and your question bespeaks of that which is of the mind of a man, not The Mind of The Messiah, "The Light of the world"!

Thankfully Our FATHER and GOD spoke HIS Word into being, "Let There Be Light"! and "there was Light"!

The Messiah, "The Beginning of The Creation of Our FATHER and GOD"! (Revelations 3:14)

LoAmmi · May 29, 2015

ChetSinger said:
We know the origins of Christianity are in Judaism. So when John called Jesus "the word of God" did that idea originate with him or did it come from his Judaic background?

In answering that question, it can be seen that the idea of "the word of the Lord" as a hypostasis of "the Lord" did already exist in Judaism as seen in the Aramaic Targums. So John, likely familiar with them since his youth, probably deliberately applied that idea to Jesus. This becomes yet another reason why the early Christians, reading John, considered Jesus divine. I wondered if you were familiar with the Targums and what you thought of John's use of their hypostatic language, that's all.

The concepts in Judaism and in Christianity are very different though. The Word would have been seen as a working force in the world, not as G-d Himself. It wouldn't be part of Him or part of a union of three within Him or anything similar. John may have used the concept, but fundamentally changed it.

ChetSinger · May 29, 2015

LoAmmi said:
The concepts in Judaism and in Christianity are very different though. The Word would have been seen as a working force in the world, not as G-d Himself. It wouldn't be part of Him or part of a union of three within Him or anything similar. John may have used the concept, but fundamentally changed it.

Here's something I'd like you to consider: the Judaism of 2,000 years ago was slightly different in some ways than it is today, and that this belief was one of them. That is, G-d was seen as both a spirit in heaven and as a physical manifestation here on earth. It wasn't polytheism because both appearances were G-d.

Dr. Alan Segal researched this belief a while ago and wrote a book on it, called "Two Powers in Heaven". He concluded that the belief was both widespread and considered orthodox until the 2nd century CE, when it was declared heretical.

Here's a link to his book: http://www.amazon.com/Two-Powers-He...32226500&sr=1-1&keywords=two+powers+in+heaven. Unfortunately it's expensive.

Here's a page by a Christian scholar who's familiar with Dr. Segal's work. His bibliography has some relevant material that is free. Food for thought, imo.

http://www.twopowersinheaven.com/default.html

Twenty-five years ago, rabbinical scholar Alan Segal produced what is still the major work on the idea of two powers in heaven in Jewish thought. Segal argued that the two powers idea was not deemed heretical in Jewish theology until the second century C.E. He carefully traced the roots of the teaching back into the Second Temple era (ca. 200 B.C.E.). Segal was able to establish that the ideas antecedents were in the Hebrew Bible, specifically passages like Dan 7:9ff., Exo 23:20-23, and Exo 15:3...

...The ancient Israelite knew two Yahwehs; one invisible, a spirit, the other visible, often in human form. The two Yahwehs at times appear together in the text, at times being distinguished, at other times not...

...Early Judaism understood this portrayal and its rationale. There was no sense of a violation of monotheism since either figure was indeed Yahweh. There was no second distinct god running the affairs of the cosmos. During the Second Temple period, Jewish theologians and writers speculated on an identity for the second Yahweh. Guesses ranged from divinized humans from the stories of the Hebrew Bible to exalted angels. These speculations were not considered unorthodox. That acceptance changed when certain Jews, the early Christians, connected Jesus with this orthodox Jewish idea. This explains why these Jews, the first converts to following Jesus the Christ, could simultaneously worship the God of Israel and Jesus, and yet refuse to acknowledge any other god. Jesus was the incarnate second Yahweh. In response, as Segals work demonstrated, Judaism pronounced the two powers teaching a heresy sometime in the second century A.D.

LoAmmi · May 29, 2015

I'll look into it but I'd like you to consider he could be wrong.

Aryeh Jay · May 29, 2015

ChetSinger said:
Here's something I'd like you to consider: the Judaism of 2,000 years ago was slightly different in some ways than it is today, and that this belief was one of them. That is, G-d was seen as both a spirit in heaven and as a physical manifestation here on earth. It wasn't polytheism because both appearances were G-d.

Dr. Alan Segal researched this belief a while ago and wrote a book on it, called "Two Powers in Heaven". He concluded that the belief was both widespread and considered orthodox until the 2nd century CE, when it was declared heretical.

Here's a link to his book: http://www.amazon.com/Two-Powers-He...32226500&sr=1-1&keywords=two+powers+in+heaven. Unfortunately it's expensive.

Here's a page by a Christian scholar who's familiar with Dr. Segal's work. His bibliography has some relevant material that is free. Food for thought, imo.

http://www.twopowersinheaven.com/default.html

If Christians are “experts” on what Judaism was “really” like 2000 years ago, then I am an “expert” on what Christianity was “really” like 2000 years ago.

ChetSinger · May 29, 2015

Aryeh Jay said:
If Christians are “experts” on what Judaism was “really” like 2000 years ago, then I am an “expert” on what Christianity was “really” like 2000 years ago.

Dr. Segal was a Jewish rabbinical scholar.

Masihi · May 29, 2015

ChetSinger said:
We know the origins of Christianity are in Judaism. So when John called Jesus "the word of God" did that idea originate with him or did it come from his Judaic background?

In answering that question, it can be seen that the idea of "the word of the Lord" as a hypostasis of "the Lord" did already exist in Judaism as seen in the Aramaic Targums. So John, likely familiar with them since his youth, probably deliberately applied that idea to Jesus. This becomes yet another reason why the early Christians, reading John, considered Jesus divine. I wondered if you were familiar with the Targums and what you thought of John's use of their hypostatic language, that's all.

Did you find the targums online?

ChetSinger · May 29, 2015

Masihi said:
Did you find the targums online?

Yes, I found English translations originally at http://targum.info/, but that link seems to come and go. Odd. At the moment the linked pages to the Pentateuchal Targums are dead.

smaneck · May 29, 2015

Aryeh Jay said:
If Christians are “experts” on what Judaism was “really” like 2000 years ago, then I am an “expert” on what Christianity was “really” like 2000 years ago.

You may not be, but there are some Jewish scholars who are experts on early Christianity. Jacob Neusner, for instance, has done some excellent work in this regard. One of my favorite books on Paul was written by a Jew. Likewise, there are some Christian scholars who have done decent work on Judaism. One of them was a professor of mine, the biblical archaeologist William Dever.

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