Christian businesses being forced to go against religious beliefs--possible solution?

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Aldebaran

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Actually, it was an open question -- do try to remember that not everything is about you.

Then ask someone else.

I don't remember addressing you specifically.

You were quoting my post when you asked the question. You don't remember that? It was such a short time ago.

No, it's a political one.

Finally, a liberal who admits his true reasons for what he says and does!

It's the part where everyone tunes out. We're here to talk politics.

Who are you speaking for when you say "we"?
 
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MoreCoffee

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Yes, your answer acknowledges it would be discriminatory.

What is a heterosexual template for a wedding cake?

Please refer to this post of mine earlier in the thread;

#834

Can you tell which wedding cake is the one for the same-sex wedding? Why did you pick that one?
One could have templates that specifically mention "this man" and "this woman" or perhaps say "bride" and "groom". I am sure a clever person would be able to write a number of good templates that would be less appealing to same sex partners than to opposite sex partners. But truth be told it all seems like a waste of effort to me. If one cannot in good conscience make a wedding cake for a same sex couple and if it is also discriminatory under the law to refuse to do so if you run a cake shop that makes wedding cakes then the answer is obvious, don't make wedding cakes. Many cake shops do good trade on standard unlabelled cakes.
 
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Aldebaran

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The part were sexuality is a protected class, yes.

Sex (male or female), yes. Having sex with one or the other is not mentioned in that law. If you disagree, then provide evidence for your argument.
 
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Aldebaran

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One could have templates that specifically mention "this man" and "this woman" or perhaps say "bride" and "groom". I am sure a clever person would be able to write a number of good templates that would be less appealing to same sex partners than to opposite sex partners. But truth be told it all seems like a waste of effort to me. If one cannot in good conscience make a wedding cake for a same sex couple and if it is also discriminatory under the law to refuse to do so if you run a cake shop that makes wedding cakes then the answer is obvious, don't make wedding cakes. Many cake shops do good trade on standard unlabelled cakes.

This seems like the most solid solution. Either that, or just blank wedding cakes with no particular theme.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Then ask someone else.

Ah. I see now that I mistakenly quoted you when I made the post -- apologies, the new format for the forum can be problematic.

Finally, a liberal who admits his true reasons for what he says and does!

Indeed -- to educate.

Now that I've educated you that this is a political forum, perhaps you can add something relevant to the discussion?

Who are you speaking for when you say "we"?

Don't tell me you haven't noticed...
 
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TLK Valentine

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Sex (male or female), yes. Having sex with one or the other is not mentioned in that law. If you disagree, then provide evidence for your argument.

Good thing we're not talking about sex -- we're talking about marriage.

You're young; you'll understand the difference someday.
 
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Maren

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Oooookay, well the whole "Protected Classes" thing is simply a way of dividing Americans for political reasons anyway. Besides, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is what people just love telling me about. It's already been pointed out to me that it speaks nothing about homosexuals, who they sleep with, what they do together in the closet, or redefining marriage.

Citation for the "Protected Classes" being "simply a way of dividing Americans"? Actually, if you check, the idea behind Civil Rights laws was to ensure Americans are all treated equally and to get rid of the system called "Jim Crow", which actually was a system "of dividing Americans for political reasons".

And I have no clue who homosexuals sleep with, what homosexuals do together in the closer, or redefining marriage has to do with the OP. Civil Rights laws merely point out that public businesses and government must treat all people the same, regardless of their gender, race, color, ethnicity, national origin, age, religion, pregnancy, disability status, familial status, and, in some areas, sexual orientation. It doesn't matter what these people do, sleep with, etc; they are protected from discrimination. Your beliefs of what those people might have done or might do in the future (including "icky sex") effects their rights.
 
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Aldebaran

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Ah. I see now that I mistakenly quoted you when I made the post -- apologies, the new format for the forum can be problematic.

Understandable. I wouldn't mind if they changed it all back.

Indeed -- to educate.

Now that I've educated you that this is a political forum, perhaps you can add something relevant to the discussion?

To be honest, I don’t know what more there is to say about this. I’ve given my own views on the subject. It amazes me that you guys continue to ask for my views. If it’s not all about me, as you like to believe I think it is, then why all the questions, and for so long?

Don't tell me you haven't noticed...

I haven't. But you really ought to speak only for yourself.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Citation for the "Protected Classes" being "simply a way of dividing Americans"? Actually, if you check, the idea behind Civil Rights laws was to ensure Americans are all treated equally and to get rid of the system called "Jim Crow", which actually was a system "of dividing Americans for political reasons".

And now, thanks to certain Christians, Jim Crow will return stronger than ever, with religious blessings supporting him....

Meaning that Jesus will no longer be the only great figure resurrected in Christian mythology.
 
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TLK Valentine

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To be honest, I don’t know what more there is to say about this. I’ve given my own views on the subject. It amazes me that you guys continue to ask for my views. If it’s not all about me, as you like to believe I think it is, then why all the questions, and for so long?

Ever hear of the Socratic Method? You might want to google it.


I haven't. But you really ought to speak only for yourself.

Then there's not much I can do to help you.
 
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Aldebaran

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Then there's not much I can do to help you.

There’s nothing you can do to “help” me if you don’t speak for others? It doesn’t sound like I’m the one needing help, whatever you even mean by that word.
 
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TLK Valentine

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There’s nothing you can do to “help” me if you don’t speak for others?

You said you hadn't noticed -- I can't open your eyes for you...
 
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bhsmte

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Sex (male or female), yes. Having sex with one or the other is not mentioned in that law. If you disagree, then provide evidence for your argument.

I don't think the laws that changed allowing interracial marriages, mentioned anything about sex either.
 
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Armoured

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Ever hear of the Socratic Method? You might want to google it.




Then there's not much I can do to help you.
I rely heavily on Socratic technique. It's a great tool, but certain types of people find it upsetting, and have difficulty distinguishing between being questioned to provoke thought, and being questioned as an attack.
 
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TLK Valentine

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I rely heavily on Socratic technique. It's a great tool, but certain types of people find it upsetting, and have difficulty distinguishing between being questioned to provoke thought, and being questioned as an attack.

Yes, I've seen it too.
 
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AirPo

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What you aren't taking into consideration is that this thread is about Christians having to act against their own conscience concerning their religious beliefs concerning homosexual marriage. This thread is not about every aspect of a homosexual person. If it was, then the thread would have a different title. As it is now, we’re talking about something specific.
Actually this thread is about the false allegation that Christian have to act against their conscience concerning their religious beliefs.
 
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Cute Tink

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Now you're adding to the issue. Only the first thing you mention is what is being discussed here.

The others carry over from the same groups of people. That being said, what is your response to the "first thing" if you want to strictly stick to that?
 
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trunks2k

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Three of these cakes are made by a bakery that was sued (and lost) for refusing to provide a cake for a same-sex wedding. One was made specifically for a same-sex wedding. Without looking at the image data or googling it, can you tell which is which?
hee hee. I checked the images and I was apparently correct in the selection I made.
 
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Queller

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One could have templates that specifically mention "this man" and "this woman" or perhaps say "bride" and "groom". I am sure a clever person would be able to write a number of good templates that would be less appealing to same sex partners than to opposite sex partners.
The problem is that anything referring to the gender or orientation of the wedding participants would still be considered discriminatory if something similar was not offered for others as well. After all how hard would it be to replace the word "bride" with a second "groom"? Refusing to do so would still run afoul of the law.
 
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