The struggle to replace the Bible

smaneck said:

I was under the impression he was invited for two reasons. First, he is said to have never died so he can come back. Secondly, because he is supposed to return prior to the coming of the Messiah.

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They are true as well, but so is the element of showing him.

Masihi said:

So please reject the Bible completely

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Not a chance!

LoAmmi said:

Just to note, since I did bring it up, the general idea I've heard as to why Elijah is invited to such things is due to the section of the Bible you quoted. He despaired and thought that he was the only person left loyal to the Holy One. He was shown then that he was wrong and he is invited now so that he can see that we've continued on from his time up to today.

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Ah...thank you.

Masihi said:

Personally, I had muslims tell me they were forbidden from looking at a Bible, so they must have been deceiving me again if what you say is so.

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Personally, I've looked at the Bible with Muslims while we handed it back and forth reading text.

dlamberth said:

Personally, I've looked at the Bible with Muslims while we handed it back and forth reading text.

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That clearly can't be true. It's just not possible.

Masihi said:

Continueing with another discrepancy, does science confirm the following doubtful belief that there are 7 earths beneath us, separated by 500 yrs each? if its in the quran, it must be so ?

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I'm a huge Teilhard fan and now days subscribe to his vision of 4 earths beneath us. Those earths being, Geosphere, Biosphere, Noonosphere and Omnisphere. Time wise, they are much further apart than 500 years though.

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MOD HAT ON

Thread is being reopened after a thread clean. If your post was removed, it was goading another member. Please keep things civil, and address the post rather than the poster.

MOD HAT OFF

What 6:163 is saying that Muhammad it is 'first" among the Muslims. That doesn't mean first chronologically. But that is a good argument for not taking the reference to Muhammad being the Seal of the Prophets as meaning he is the last.

Ultimately, like Jesus, Muhammad is the first and the last.

"should a Soul in the “End that knoweth no end” be made manifest, and arise to proclaim and uphold a Cause which in “the Beginning that hath no beginning” another Soul had proclaimed and upheld, it can be truly declared of Him Who is the Last and of Him Who was the First that they are one and the same, inasmuch as both are the Exponents of one and the same Cause. For this reason, hath the Point of the Bayán—may the life of all else but Him be His sacrifice!—likened the Manifestations of God unto the sun which, though it rise from the “Beginning that hath no beginning” until the “End that knoweth no end,” is none the less the same sun. Now, wert thou to say, that this sun is the former sun, thou speakest the truth; and if thou sayest that this sun is the “return” of that sun, thou also speakest the truth. Likewise, from this statement it is made evident that the term “last” is applicable to the “first,” and the term “first” applicable to the “last;” inasmuch as both the “first” and the “last” have risen to proclaim one and the same Faith."
Baha'u'llah

Masihi said:

Received a LIKE on this. Glad people are reading these.

Muslims

• Masihi
• May 30, 2015

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Masihi said:

quran does not mention muhammad as the greatest of the prophets, so your wrong.

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Saying he is first among Muslims is a way of saying he is the greatest.

Sura 39 and 6 must be referring to a chronology.

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in the context in which those ayahs are written, that wouldn't even make sense.

quran mentions Jesus is the greatest...
"And when the angels said, 'Mary, God has chosen thee, and purified thee; He has chosen thee above all women. Sura 3:42

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That says something about Mary's station, not Jesus'. But as I indicated, ultimately they all are the first and the last.

Masihi said:

I noticed Moses' mother is mentioned in the quran as a believer. But in another aya Moses is mentioned as being "the first to believe". This is a contradiction in the quran same as the contradiction on momed.

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Let me try to put it another way, since obviously you aren't getting it. "First" in this context is being used as a superlative, not a comparative.

Masihi said:

Here is another contradiction you can "clear up" since no muslims seem to want to.

quran repeatedly states that it "makes everything clear" for the reader so that there is no misunderstanding anywhere in its pages...

… Shall I seek a judge other than Allah while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (quran), explained in detail… Sura 6:114

… And We have sent down on thee the Book making clear everything, and as a guidance and a mercy, and as good tidings to those who surrender.- Sura 16:89

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You are so busy searching for contradictions you don't bother to read verses in their context. If you had you would have realized that the Book referred to in Sura 6:114 was the Bible, not the Qur'an. In the second verse a better translation would have been "clarifying everything" meaning it clarifies all the ambiguities and uncertainties in previous revelations, not that it doesn't have any of its own.

Question: Why would this so called 'allah' even bother revealing passages that no one knows besides him?

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It doesn't say no one knows, it says no one knows but God and "those who are endowed with knowledge." This is a reference to God's Prophets and Chosen Ones. For Shi'ites this would include the Imams, by that I mean the 12 Imams not any member of the 'ulama.