Biblical Prophecy and current events - A MUST READ!!!

iam13

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Wow, wow, wow! Even though I do not subscribe to the bible being 100% truth I am beginning to see very strong connections between biblical prophecy and current and past events, they are now becoming eerily similar. Allow for me to elaborate.

The bible clearly states that the players, or leaders in the end times are referred to as the king of the north and the king of the south. But who are these kings? The king of the north was said to have been born north of Jerusalem while the king of the south was said to have been born south of Jerusalem. Just so happens Putin was born in Petersburg which is due north of Jerusalem, while Obama was born due south of Jerusalem. So Obama is the king of the south, Putin the king of the north.

In the bible it has been said that the king of the north would attack Babylon (America - and specifically American Jews) with a weapon of indignation. This in turn would send the King of the south and his people reeling into a state of darkness. Now, the only possible weapon that could descend upon Babylon (America) and create a state of darkness is that of an EMP - Electro Magnetic Pulse. Russia would only have to get one EMP rocket to explode over our territory and it would indeed send us into darkness. An EMP is not a bloody, nasty weapon at all, in fact it will leave everyone alive, however It will immediately fry all transistors, capacitors, resisters and electronics which would result in America falling into a state of catastrophic darkness. All transportation would halt, all electricity would no longer work, and the list goes on and on. One can only begin to imagine the impact this would have on America and her people. Anarchy, looting, food-water shortages, full infrastructure break down, civil war for survival, our entire society would literally grind to a total and complete halt.

Other biblical prophecy tell of how Babylon will fall, and do so in large part because of the lifestyle and standard of living American's enjoy. Our lifestyle is extremely different than the rest of the worlds. Even today we are now beginning to witness nations from around the world frowning upon us, many looking in disbelief of what America has become.. a violent, war for profit, debt ridden, spoiled nation having all the lavish foods and drinks of the world, deeply amassed in materialism, and an extremely hedonistic way of life. What is more scary is that most American's are completely clueless about the rest of the world knowing the truth about us.

Now what is really amazing to watch is how all these prophecies are coming true before our very eyes and though there may be thousands of people involved with playing an important role in these prophecies a great many of those people have no clue of the bigger picture. Whats more is that it is VERY clear to me now that a master architect is directing this show who is none other than the master of creation, or, God. Example: Obama flew to NY not long ago to sign a header beam for the new trade tower as it became the tallest building in the world, he may have very well had no idea about his part in the fulfilling of prophecy just as many, many others are seemingly playing their part without knowledge of the other. BTW - Obama wrote a certain biblical message on that beam. Obama will return to NY to write another message on the highest cornerstone of the building when they complete its construction. So, why all the hype over the new trade center? Simple. Because that tower is the TOWER OF BABYLON!

In other areas of the bible we hear of talks of Babylon and even down to a descriptive of the infamous harlot of Babylon herself. And guess who the harlot of Babylon is? And guess where she is? I will give you a hint. She isn't too far away from that tower. Yep, the harlot of Babylon would be the greatest "symbol" of America, which today apparently represents a nation of people who consume 100% and produce 0% and whose only form of income is violence and war. Can you guess who our harlot of Babylon is? She would be none other than Lady Liberty.

Im sorry, I wished I had better news. Perhaps others may share some more info concerning this subject? The synchronicity is scary, but my intent is not to instill fear but rather to inform you of what may come of us in the VERY near future. I say that something will occur between now and Sept of 2015.

Should what I've suggested be true then Obama is going to have to secure up his position and role in this story and will have to likely claim Martial Law and a policed state of affairs. This is the only way he will be able to go on beyond his term as the president, leader, or king.

All this falls into a very interesting timeline as some of you may already be aware of. The highly controversial massive military and special forces training exercise that will cover the entire western us is to be happening from July to September, 2015. That operation is code named, "Jade Helm". save this name for later.

I cannot recall where I saw it but a group found that over 50 of the terrorist events that have happened all had federal state, and/or local government training going on during those terror attacks. What's more is that in many of those cases (INCLUDING 911!) the training that was taking place at the same location of the terrorist event actually mirrored the event itself. So ya, on 911 there were several gov groups and forces in NY, a good few of which were training for an event whereby a plane would fly into a building.

What I am sharing here is the fact that it appears that while Jade Helm will be going on and it will cover the entire western united states, and it will involve 6 digits worth of personnel to be training including local law enforcement, it most certainly appears the time will be ripe for something massive to happen. What's even more is that the 4th and final blood moon occurs on Sep. 13, 2015!

If for some uncouth reason unknown to us Russia was going to hit us, they would indeed attack from the west. I know this may sound far fetched but I must ask..... will we encounter a cross between a red dawn Russian invasion and a large swathing storm of EMP rockets bearing down from the west come September? It most certainly appears that we will have a ton of pre-positioned professional's at the ready. Waiting.

Me thinks things are going to get really crazy later this year. Crazy like as in never seen before here in our American Babylon.

Lastly, and perhaps just as scary, is the fact that the American system has really become a massive racket that covers all industries and businesses. We Babylonian's consume 100% and produce 0% and our only form of income is war and violence, we sold our only brand, "Made in America" to China and were even too lazy to tend to our crops so we have the Mexicans handle our farming. And then to think we have the nerve to snivel and whine about the border? America, what hath become of you? Hmmm.... how about we try and decode that training mission code name now huh?:

JADE: A worthless often violent horse.

HELM: A large rudder usually used to steer a massive ship.

Mission code name Jade Helm equates to: A re-steering of a worthless, violent America.

Ouch.

Be prepared, be alert, and be ready.

Be morally righteous in all of your acts and there's a good chance you will be spared. Keep on sinning and repenting and sinning and so forth, chances are you will not make it.
Good luck, and God speed.

Love, Light and Power,
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A New World

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I wish I could be more positive but the theory expressed here is pure speculation and is not related to the Judeo-Christian Bible in any way.

I don't mean any of the following comments personally, just trying to allow Scripture to illuminate my thinking.

Putin and Obama are Presidents not Kings. Scripture was not addressing the birthplace of modern Presidents but the location of specific, historical kingdoms represented by their kings.

The U.S. is NOT Babylon. If you're referring to Babylon of the Old Testament it was finally and forever removed as a kingdom when it was conquered by the Medes and the Persians.

If you mean mystery Babylon in Revelation that was first century Jerusalem. Unbelieving Old Covenant Israel was judged for her guilt. She was tread in the wine press of God's wrath for killing the prophets, apostles, saints, and the Lord himself.

The method of interpretation employed by the author of this thread has consistently led to error. This type of speculative thinking will soon be seen as just another uninformed "shot in the dark" just as every other science fiction futuristic unbiblical interpretation of Scripture.

Please consider reading Scripture as literature rather than looking into a crystal ball. It was written in a particular context, in a specific time, by specific authors, to specific audiences. Try reading the New Testament from the perspective of the original audiences. You will arrive at a very different conclusion...the truth!

May God bless the pursuit of truth
 
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iam13

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A new world, I LIKE your approach! Nothing negative about it, you didn't attack me, your post wasn't ego based at all..... you even left it open for additional evidence to be brought forth to see if this would go anywhere. What you are doing here is right and true, and for this I appreciate you. Now, shall we get to some evidence?

Please realize that I have only taken the very creme of the top of this story and that for someone much more schooled than I am in biblical verse begins to delve deeper I am sure there will plenty more to be brought forth. If upon your reading some of this you could come back and repy I know that I would appreciate it. That said I will leave you with some evidence as compiled by the people over at cogwriter:
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Is the Future King of the South Rising Up?

Does the Bible teach that there will be a future King of the South in Daniel 11? Is this kingdom rising up now?

Did the old Worldwide Church of God (WCG) teach that there would be another one? And who is the King of the South? Might the Muslim Brotherhood be involved? This article will answer those questions (and certain information is also in the YouTube videos The Future King of the South is Rising, The Muslim Brotherhood and the Rise of the King of the South, What Should You Know About Turkey in Prophecy, Egypt and End Time Prophecy, Iraq, the King of the South, Armageddon, and Prophecy, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia in Prophecy, and Damascus and Syria in Prophecy).

This article was originally written because of some critical statements that I received from some once part of the Global Church of God (GCG) that disagreed that there would be a future King of the South. Specifically, some stated that Herbert W. Armstrong (HWA) did not teach that there would be a future King of the South and/or that the Bible does not require a future King of the South.

Are they correct? If they are not correct, are we in the 21st century seeing the rise of the King of the South?

This article will go through quotes from Church of God (COG) related literature, the Bible, and other sources to answer these questions.

The Bible Teaches About the King of the South
Of course, the main issue is whether or not the Bible teaches that there must be a future King of the South. It is in the 11th chapter of the book of Daniel (the only place where the term 'king of the South' is mentioned) which makes this clear.

Daniel wrote:

25 He [the king of the North] shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the South...27 Both these kings' hearts shall be bent on evil, and they shall speak lies at the same table; but it shall not prosper, for the end will still be at the appointed time (Daniel 11:25,27).

Notice that these two kings make a deal together, but both sides are lying to each other. Thus, whatever agreement they make is not destined to be permanent.

Now when is the appointed time of the end? Verse 29 states:

29 At the appointed time he shall return and go toward the south; but it shall not be like the former or the latter.

The 'he' in verse 29 is the king of the North. This verse says that the 'appointed time' is not only different than before, but, combined with vs. 27, that it is the appointed time that leads to the final end of both the king of the North and the king of the South (cf. vs. 27).

I state this because there is an ‘appointed time’ (Strong’s word #7150) in both vs. 27 which suggest it is in the future and vss. 29 and 35 which appear to be the specific time. The specific word translated as ‘the end’ is the same word (Strong’s 4150) in vs. 27 and vs. 45 where the king of the North comes to his final end it is also in vs. 40 when the king of the North invades the king of the South (which is the last time the term 'king of the South' is mentioned as this leads to his end).

Daniel 11:35 states:

35 And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.

Again, Daniel 11:40 states:

40 At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through.

Since the king of the South is prophesied in vs. 27 to come to his end at the appointed time, and I believe the Bible is clear that this particular appointed time of coming to his end has not come yet (especially since the king of the North is also supposed to come to his end during that appointed time), the Bible thus demonstrates the need of a future king of the South.

Notice that the King of the North is going to come into the Arabic portions of the world. And when the final contest between the King of the South vs. the King of the North occurs, the King of the South will lose:

40 At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through. 41 He shall also enter the Glorious Land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall escape from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon. 42 He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. (Daniel 11:40-42).

The above shows that certain Arab nations, such as Egypt and Libya will not fair well (for more on Egypt, please see the article Egypt in Prophecy). Some peoples who speak Arabic, but are not ethnically Arabic (like the Nubians) will also not fair well--suggesting that the king of the South is supported by more than just those who are ethnically Arabic. War is Coming Between Europeans and Arabs.

We are getting closer for an Islamic confederation to form consistent with the biblical prophecies about the final King of the South (Daniel 11:40). However, somewhat like the final Beast/King of the North power (Daniel 11:41-42), it looks like the Bible teaches that there will be some fragility and lack of total cohesiveness as the King of the South will apparently not be totally unified (cf. Daniel 11:41-42; 11:25-26).

It may be of interest to note that currently, many of the states of the European Union and the states of Northern Africa have gotten together in something that they call the "Union for the Mediterranean." An interesting part of this is that while they do not call them kings, when it formed there was a president of the North (the then president of France) and a president of the South (the then president of Egypt) (for details, please see the article The Bible and the Arab World In History and Prophecy).

The end simply was not in the 1930s as some groups (like the Church of the Eternal God, see below) implies that the particular end of the southern King must have been. That is utter nonsense.

Church of the Eternal God and certain other groups with origins in GCG
Before going into more about what the Bible teaches about a future King of the South (and other sources showing how the related kingdom seems to be rising up), perhaps showing the positions of some of those who disagree would make sense.

The Church of the Eternal God (CEG), which once had two of the board members involved in the GCG takeover, wrote this in its July 30, 2004 News Update:

...the prophecy in Daniel 11:40 has ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED. And verse 40 is the LAST TIME where the king of the South is mentioned! Beginning with the second half of verse 40, we read exclusively about the king of the North and his activities, and, in verse 44, about rumors from the east and the west. This means, then, that there DOES NOT HAVE TO BE ANOTHER end-time king of the South. If there were to rise one, following the historical and Biblical records, as set forth in the 11th chapter of the book of Daniel, it would have to be -- mainly -- modern Ethiopia. But, as we said, ALL WHICH STILL NEEDS TO BE FULFILLED (and which the previous king of the North -- under Mussolini -- did NOT fulfill), is the invasion of the Glorious Land by the future and final king of the North (verse 41), including Jerusalem (verse 45), as well as the overthrow of "many countries" (verse 41), including Egypt, and the "Libyans and Ethiopians" following at his heels (verse 43).

Although CEG had referred to a 1972 article by HWA prior to reaching this conclusion, this is NOT what HWA actually concluded.

It should also be pointed out that GCG-UK (a group with ties to CEG) posted about the same thing in August 2004. These statements are similar to those made by Harold Smith of Church of God Fellowship, Northwest (Harold Smith went along with the GCG takeover and is a former GCG member):

If the Menelek/Mussolini scenario is the fulfillment, this verse ends the historical record of the fulfillment of this prophecy; if not, this verse may yet be fulfilled a second time. (Smith H. Exploring the Bible: Daniel & Revelation. 2006, p. 69)

Thus, at least three groups that split off from the GCG takeover now have taken the position that the old WCG and the Bible do not require that there be a future King of the South.

Could the King of the South be an Egyptian?
Who is the 'king of the South' according to history and the old WCG? Most worldly scholars and HWA felt that there were different ones at different times.

Could the final King of the South be an Egyptian? (See also Egypt in Prophecy)

Some who do not believe this is possible have pointed to some of the following from HWA's Middle East in Prophecy booklet:

Here is verse 5: "And the king of the south [Egypt] shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion"...Syria's ruler, the king of the north, at this time was Antiochus II, called Theos. His wife was named Laodice. And, says Rawlinson's Ancient History, page 251, "Her influence ... engaged him in a war with Ptolemy Philadelphus [king of the south], B.C. 260, which is terminated, B.C. 252, by a marriage between Antiochus and Bernice, Ptolemy's daughter"...Verse 25 — Rawlinson, pages 255-256, says, "Threatened with war by the ministers of Ptolemy Philometor [now king of the south], who claim Coele-Syria and Palestine as the dowry of Cleopatra, the late queen-mother, Antiochus marches against Egypt ... B.C. 171" (pp. 277-278). But he was met by his nephew, Ptolemy Philometor, king of the south, with another immense army. But the Egyptian king was defeated through the treachery of his own officers and was outwitted by Antiochus. Verses 26-27 — continuing in Rawlinson, page 278: "After his victory at Pelusium, Antiochus advanced to Memphis, and having obtained possession of the young king's person [Ptolemy Philometor, king of the south], endeavored to use him as a tool for effecting the entire reduction of the country."

...Who is today the "king of the south"? It cannot be the king of Egypt, for in 31 B.C. Egypt became a province of the Roman Empire, swallowed up by the king of the north. Today Egypt is a republic ruled by native Arabs. It has no king of its own...(observe that after its conquest by Mussolini, Ethiopia is not again referred to as the king of the south).

Yet, HWA did not teach that Egypt could not become the final King of the South. HWA taught that the King of the South, was not Egypt of 1972, and that after Mussolini's conquest that Ethiopia is not again referred to as the king of the South.

Notice that the position of his old church was that Egypt could very well become the final leader of the King of the South, but it would take time for that to be the case. Notice a quote from the July 1963 Plain Truth article by Garner Ted Armstrong titled "And when you see the Abomination..." which clearly proves that:

Daniel was given specific visions of events to occur in OUR TIME!...Notice! And at the TIME OF THE END (this prophecy, then, is absolutely DATED as pertaining to OUR DAY, NOW) shall the king of the south push at him (the "king of the north") and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over" (verse 40). Bible scholars have recognized the FIRST, TYPICAL fulfillment of this surprising prophecy, but have failed to see its LITERAL application to OUR TIMES!...

But what of the MODERN powers meant by these designations? Remember-the Bible is written, SPIRITUALLY and GEOGRAPHICALLY, from the point of view of PALESTINE! If you were to look on a map, and try to find two powers fitting this description, you would have a fairly easy task...Who else could this be, then, except the coming UNITED STATES OF EUROPE, a resurrection of the ancient ROMAN EMPIRE, Just as we have been fearlessly proclaiming...A rearmed GERMANY, heading up a final union...IN EUROPE -THIS is the Biblical KING OF THE NORTH!

The king of the South? EGYPT, of course. But not Egypt of today. Egypt of a few more years from now--Egypt as she continues to expand the U.A.R., bringing more and more of the North Africa Mohammedan nations into the same Afro-Arabian power block! (p. 22).

Why groups like CEG cannot accept that the COG long taught that there would be a King of the South, that it would be an Afro-Arabian Islamic power block, and that it could be led by Egypt suggests that they need to study relatively recent church history a bit closer.

The late WCG evangelist Raymond McNair (who was also once part of GCG) wrote:

Daniel 11 also mentions some of the Mideast peoples who will be involved in that struggle among the nations at the close of this age. The belligerents will include the “King of the North,” the leader of the European Union (or its final outgrowth, called the “Beast”). The “King of the South” (an Islamic leader—apparently from Egypt {or} some other Muslim state) is also referred to. The following lands/peoples are specifically mentioned: Egypt, the Holy Land (Israel/Palestine), the Ethiopians (modern Cushites, south of Egypt), Libya, Edom, Moab and Ammon. Many descendants of the ancient peoples known as Edomites or Idumeans now live in the West Bank, Jordan, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Arabia, Yemen, the Persian Gulf states, etc. (McNair R. Solving the Arab-Israeli Impasse! Copyright Raymond F. McNair 2005, Church of God—21st Century).

Notice that Raymond McNair realizes that Egypt or some other Muslim country is where the king of the South will come from and that the term translated as Ethiopians really means the Cushite peoples who live in southern Egypt as well as elsewhere Information on Iraq is in the article Iraq, the King of the South, Armageddon, and Prophecy.

It may be of interest to note that the following from the Bible:

6 The burden against the beasts of the South. Through a land of trouble and anguish, From which came the lioness and lion, The viper and fiery flying serpent, They will carry their riches on the backs of young donkeys, And their treasures on the humps of camels, To a people who shall not profit; (Isaiah 30:6, NKJV)

7 Egypt is all show, no substance. My name for her is Toothless Dragon. (Isaiah 30:7, THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary Language)

SOURCE - http://www.cogwriter.com/south.htm
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A New World

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I read the article you posted. The information provided there is a another example of the types of speculation I now find to be embarrassing to Christianity. I say "now" because I'm very familiar with the practice.

I grew up in a fundamental Pentecostal church in which my dad was the pastor. I was born in the 60's and I remember consistently hearing the story of Israel and 1948 being the super sign of the end. Then by the time 1967 and the six day war arrived, everything broke out into a frenzy. The end was so near, civilization as we knew it would soon come to a catastrophic end.

Then, as 1980 drew near everybody began talking about 1988. They understood that a generation was 40 years. Jesus said, "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place" (Mt. 24:34). 1988 was obviously exactly 40 years after the so-called re-birth of the nation of Israel. So, the return of Christ must be prior to 1988.

These folks were pre-tribulationalists which means the rapture would occur 7 Years prior to the end. So, it would definitely be prior to 1981. Then, Ronald Wilson Reagan was sworn into the office of President in January 1981! Many thought he was the antichrist. It was right there in his name: Ronald=6, Wilson=6, Reagan=6...666!

Needless to say, everyone who followed this method of interpreting Bible prophecy was 100% in error. They were trying to interpret Scripture as though it was written to them. They had inserted themselves into the story and wanted it to be true so much they insisted that it was true. If anyone dared to question them, they were simply dismissed as heretics or as those controlled by the spirit of antichrist or simply as those without the Spirit of God residing within.

This is how the futurist seems to operate. You can find that very same attitude here on this forum. I've witnessed it myself recently.

If you don't mind let me provide background to give you a little insight into my current perspective. After reading it you can either accept it as legit or dismiss it as unlikely. Either way it could save you some time and effort.

The majority of scholars, I believe, credit Moses with authorship of the first five books of the Bible. He lived about 1500 years before the incarnation of Christ. I believe all of the books of the New Testament were complete some time before AD 70. At the most, that gives us about 1600 years in which all of Scripture was written.

Almost all of Scripture was written by Israelites, to Israelites, and for Israelites. They were given the Law, the prophets and the promises. Some Gentiles became part of Israel, but they were never included in the temple system in the same way as natural Israel.

After the exodus from Egypt, before entering the promised land, at the very beginning of the Old Covenant age, Moses prophesied of their latter days. Imagine that! They were just beginning to realize their promises and he warned them of their latter days.

He wrote: "For I know that after my death you will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you. And evil will befall you in the latter days, because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke Him to anger through the work of your hands" (Deut. 31:29).

Before Moses died he gave Israel "The Song Of Moses." They were required to learn it from generation to generation and recite it regularly. It was a warning from God in anticipation of their future apostasy and for turning their back on God and His commandments.

Moses spoke of Israel's condition in her last days prior to her judgment from God: "They have corrupted themselves; They are not His children, Because of their blemish: A perverse and crooked generation. And He said: 'I will hide My face from them, I will see what their end will be, For they are a perverse generation, Children in whom is no faith" (Deut. 32:5,20).

Israel certainly lived in disobedience and rebellion to God over the course of their existence as a nation. Northern Israel's ten tribes were judged by God as they were attacked by the Assyrians and scattered among the Gentiles in about 722 BC. Southern Israel, Judah, was destroyed and taken captive by the Babylonians in 586 BC. God allowed them back into the land after 70 years.

Fast forward to the time of Messiah. He arrived at the time Moses prophesied about 1500 years before. Notice how Jesus described that terminal generation: "Then Jesus answered and said, "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me" (Mt. 17:17).

Remember what Moses said: "I will hide My face from them, I will see what their end will be, For they are a perverse generation, Children in whom is no faith."

Later, Peter and Paul both echoed Moses' words:

Moses: "And evil will befall you in the latter days, because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD."

"They have corrupted themselves; They are not His children, Because of their blemish: A perverse and crooked generation."

Peter: "And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation" (Acts 2:40).

Paul: "that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world" (Phil. 2:15).

The time of Old Covenant Israel's end had arrived. God would judge her for her sin. She had become faithless, crooked and perverse, and even a harlot in God's sight.

Some will say: "But she would not be rejected by God because of the promises to her fathers."

They are absolutely correct! The New Testament makes it clear that God would save a remnant from among unbelieving Israel in her last days.

Paul: "Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved. And as Isaiah said before: "Unless the LORD of Sabaoth had left us a seed, We would have become like Sodom, And we would have been made like Gomorrah" (Rom. 9:27,29).

Though the remnant was being saved between AD 30-AD70, what had Old Covenant Israel become?

John made it clear that Israel had become an enemy of God, exactly what she once despised:

"And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified" (Rev. 11:8).

As Isaiah warned before, and as Paul and John both reminded those living in the last days, the people had become like Sodom.

I wrote all of that background to write this:
The end prophesied in the Old Testament was not the end of our modern civilization. That idea is foreign to Scripture. It was about the end of the Old Covenant age.

Jesus taught about the end of that age:
"Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" (Mt. 24:1-3).

The NT states clearly that they were living in the last days:
"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds" (Heb. 1:1-2).

Every NT writer posited the end as "about to be, near, shortly or soon."

Here's a sample:
Peter: 1 Peter 4:7 "But the end of all things is near; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers."

James: James 5:8 "You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.

John: 1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. (also Rev. 1:1-3,19; 22:6-12)

Paul: Romans 13:12 "The night is far spent, the day is near. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light."

I believe the prophesied end of that age occurred when the temple was destroyed in AD 70. At that time the Old Covenant age came to a cataclysmic end. The harlot, OC Israel, was judged in her latter days just as Moses prophesied. There will never be another physical city, temple, priesthood, sacrifice, etc. associated with OC Israel.

The New Covenant age began in the first century. From that time, the church consists of all who come to Christ. There is no division between Jew and Gentile, male and female, slave and free. Our age is eternal because it's based on the Eternal One, Jesus the Christ.

Hopefully you can see why I find all the wild speculations as pure nonsense. Every so-called "prophet" who has predicted the end of the world since the time of the end in the first century has been absolutely wrong. You can count on the fact that they are still wrong and they will always be wrong.

The good news is, all who call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved! We are at peace with God through His Son. The age in which we live will never end. God currently dwells with us, He is our God, we are His people. We have nothing to fear!!!

I doubt anyone is still reading, but just in case,

May God bless you and the pursuit of truth.
 
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iam13

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Wow, I had posted the following last night before your reply and it did nt take. So am posting it now. I like what you have here! Will reply shortly!

Referring to Babylon as America, I think they may have been really speaking about American Jews, or, Jews living in America.

Take it back to the original languages and look up the words in an older printed Strongs, Rev 17:9 could be Rome, but Rome has played its part already, and so Rev 17:9 is indeed Manhattan.
 
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interpreter

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The only prophesies in the news is the seven last plagues that we have been experiencing for some years now, such as skin cancer, red tides, global warming, the Euphrates dried up, and we are now fighting the Battle of Ar Mageddon which began on 9/11 when the Euphrates was dry. That means all previous prophesies have already been fulfilled.
 
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A New World

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Wow, I had posted the following last night before your reply and it did nt take. So am posting it now. I like what you have here! Will reply shortly!

Referring to Babylon as America, I think they may have been really speaking about American Jews, or, Jews living in America.

Take it back to the original languages and look up the words in an older printed Strongs, Rev 17:9 could be Rome, but Rome has played its part already, and so Rev 17:9 is indeed Manhattan.

I think Scripture identifies the four kingdoms that would reign over Israel until the time of the end. Daniel chapter two lists the four as 1. Gold=Babylon, 2. Silver=Medes & Persians, 3. Bronze=Greece, 4. Iron/Iron & Clay=Rome.

The forth kingdom would be in power at the time of the end of Daniel's people, Old Covenant Israel.

Daniel heard the time of the fulfillment:

"And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished." (Dan. 12:6-7)

He was told, after 3 1/2 years the power of his people would be completely shattered. The Jewish-Roman war lasted 3 1/2 years and then the final end came in Aug/Sep of AD 70.

This is why I believe the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 by Rome brought an end to the Old Covenant age.

If this is correct, mystery Babylon in Revelation would have referred to first century AD apostate Israel represented by Jerusalem.

Notice the words of John:
"And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird!" (Rev. 18:2)

"And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth." (Rev. 18:24)

Mystery Babylon, the harlot, was found guilty and judged for killing the prophets, the saints and all who were slain on the earth.

According to Scripture, who would was guilty of killing the prophets, saints, and all who were slain on the earth?

Jesus pronounced judgment on the first century AD leaders of Israel:

"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat." (Mt. 23:1-2)

"Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. "Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt..."Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, "that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation." (Mt. 23:31-32,34-36)

Jesus told His disciples when the judgment of Israel would take place:

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." (Mt. 24:34)

Again, in my opinion, the evidence within Scripture points to Israel and her two covenant ages. This eliminates any speculation that we are living in the last days, America is Babylon, the antichrist is alive now, etc.

I have found this approach to be a much more consistent method of interpretation. It is objective based on the evidence. The futurist method tends to be much more subjective and open to a wide variety of speculation.

May God bless you and the open and honest pursuit of truth
 
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A New World

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The only prophesies in the news is the seven last plagues that we have been experiencing for some years now, such as skin cancer, red tides, global warming, the Euphrates dried up, and we are now fighting the Battle of Ar Mageddon which began on 9/11 when the Euphrates was dry. That means all previous prophesies have already been fulfilled.

If we are relying on Scripture, the seven last plagues have also been fulfilled.

Moses prophesied the seven plagues that would come upon Old Covenant Israel as her judgment for disobedience:

'And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze...'Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins...then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins." (Lev. 26:18,19,21,24)

John wrote of imminent events:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants--things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John" (Rev. 1:1)

He saw the completion of God's judgment on apostate Israel:

"Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete." (Rev. 15:1)

The seven plagues of Revelation are associated with the judgment of Israel at the end of her age. That's great news for us. We are in Christ under the New Covenant. We are at peace with God. We should continue to proclaim the good news and convert more of the lost into the kingdom.
 
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interpreter

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If we are relying on Scripture, the seven last plagues have also been fulfilled.

Moses prophesied the seven plagues that would come upon Old Covenant Israel as her judgment for disobedience:

'And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze...'Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins...then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins." (Lev. 26:18,19,21,24)

John wrote of imminent events:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants--things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John" (Rev. 1:1)

He saw the completion of God's judgment on apostate Israel:

"Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete." (Rev. 15:1)

The seven plagues of Revelation are associated with the judgment of Israel at the end of her age. That's great news for us. We are in Christ under the New Covenant. We are at peace with God. We should continue to proclaim the good news and convert more of the lost into the kingdom.
You are so funny. The Revelation was written at least 25 years after the fall of Israel. Besides, none of the 7 last plagues occurred then. The mighty Euphrates never dried up until 1994 when Saddam Hussein dried up 50 miles of it to prepare the way for the kings of the east. He did it with a couple dams and a diversion canal that he named "The Mother of All Battles River." It remained dry for nine years, until the US invaded Iraq and the Euphrates was restored. As prophesied, the Battle of Ar Mageddon began when the Euphrates was dry, on 9/11. The US, the 4th horseman to rule the earth for Jesus, is now dropping 100-pound "hailstones" on the 7th head of the beast.
 
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A New World

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You are so funny. The Revelation was written at least 25 years after the fall of Israel. Besides, none of the 7 last plagues occurred then. The mighty Euphrates never dried up until 1994 when Saddam Hussein dried up 50 miles of it to prepare the way for the kings of the east. He did it with a couple dams and a diversion canal that he named "The Mother of All Battles River." It remained dry for nine years, until the US invaded Iraq and the Euphrates was restored. As prophesied, the Battle of Ar Mageddon began when the Euphrates was dry, on 9/11. The US, the 4th horseman to rule the earth for Jesus, is now dropping 100-pound "hailstones" on the 7th head of the beast.

I base my understanding on Moses prophecies and the later fulfillment which John saw as imminent.

Therefore, the context and the internal evidence of Revelation demands that John wrote prior to the judgment of mystery Babylon, the harlot, Old Covenant Israel in AD 70.

Moses prophesied the end of his covenant people due to their perpetual disobedience. He saw Israel's latter days (Deut. 31:29). He said her end would come with seven plagues (Lev. 26:21). John saw the seven last plagues as imminent (Rev. 1:1-3; 15:1). And, in them the wrath of God was complete.

I have scriptural evidence on my side. I'm open to considering your evidence, but only from the Scriptures.
 
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A New World

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This is all very interesting! I truly believe we are in the end times. I encourage you to research about the strange trumpet sounds happening all over the world, that are similar to that of a shofar.

My trust is in God's Word. I'm pursuing truth based on the information contained within the Scriptures. If I question when the end times are I go to Scripture for the answer.

Here's what I have found:
"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds" (Heb. 1:1-2)

The Scriptures say they were living in the last days.

If there's a passage that says we're living in the last days, or that the last days were far off from their day, I'll accept that. But, we know from the evidence that they were living in the last days.

According to Scripture, do you think Peter thought he was living in the last days?

"But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. "For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. "But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams." (Acts 2:14-17)

Peter informed his audience that they were witnessing the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. So, they were living in the last days.

He later wrote:
"who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5)

And:
"He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you" (1 Pet. 1:20)

He not only confirmed that they were living in the last time, but also that the end was imminent:
But the end of all things is near; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers." (1 Peter 4:7)

John also saw the nearness of the end of the age:
"Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour." (1 John 2:18)

So, if we base our opinion only on the inspired Scripture, we find that they were living in the end times and they eagerly expected its arrival. The evidence is too great for me to ignore.
 
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BobRyan

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In Rev 12 you have the birth of Christ and 1260 years of dark ages persecution of the saints.

In Rev 13 you have the rise of a new nation - one that is comes out of the land -

Rev 17 says that the seas are many "peoples, tongues, tribes and nations" (That was Europe during the dark ages) but the land by contrast is a wilderness where that dense population scenario does not exist. (So then - the new world -- Americas possibly).

And according to that Rev 13 chapter - out of the land comes a world dominant world superpower. One that arises to power after the 1260 years of dark ages style persecution of the saints ends.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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A New World

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In Rev 12 you have the birth of Christ and 1260 years of dark ages persecution of the saints.

In Rev 13 you have the rise of a new nation - one that is comes out of the land -

Rev 17 says that the seas are many "peoples, tongues, tribes and nations" (That was Europe during the dark ages) but the land by contrast is a wilderness where that dense population scenario does not exist. (So then - the new world -- Americas possibly).

And according to that Rev 13 chapter - out of the land comes a world dominant world superpower. One that arises to power after the 1260 years of dark ages style persecution of the saints ends.

in Christ,

Bob

According to Scripture the number 1260 is not years, it is days. So, it has nothing to do with the dark ages.

John, in Revelation 12, equates the number 1260 with the phrase 'time and times and half a time.'

"Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days." (Revelation 12:6)

"But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent." (Revelation 12:14)

1260 days=time, times, half a time=3 1/2 years
This is 1260 days, 3 1/2 years, not 1260 years

Daniel heard the same time span:

"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase." (Daniel 12:4)

"And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" (Daniel 12:6)

"Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished." (Daniel 12:7)

John informed those living in the first century AD that they were living in the time of the end prophesied by Daniel. The Jewish-Roman war lasted 3 1/2 years ending in AD 70.

Daniel's book was sealed until the time of the end. John's book was not to be sealed because the time was near. (Rev. 22:10)

The destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was the time "when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished." (Dan. 12:7)
 
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A New World

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I read it all, very good to read. Thanks for posting it. I remember reading a book many years ago, "The Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsey. If anyone gets a copy I recommend binning it immediately. It is full of the old apocalypse nonsense that you have shot down using scripture in your post.

Lindey's book came out in several editions. In mine it described Russia as the great evil of the North. Later additions changed this to Russia and Syria, then later some other Arab states. I believe Lindsey later backtracked to Russia again. As you said in your post, embarrassing speculation, and also wrong.

I appreciate the fact that you were able to read it all, that you agree, and for your kind words.

I have the book "The Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsey along with two others, "Satan Is Alive And Well On Planet Earth," and "The Liberation Of Planet Earth." In my opinion, he certainly made a lot of money off of those who enjoy speculative musings.

If everyone would at least begin by reading the Bible through the eyes of the original audiences they may not come to the conclusions I have but I'm confident their views would change for the better.

Too many, in my opinion, try to insert themselves and their circumstances into the pages of Scripture. They seem to have no idea of the ramifications of their views on those original audiences. If the promises and warnings are for us, they would have meant absolutely nothing to those to whom the promises and warnings were made.

May God continue to bless the open and honest pursuit of truth.
 
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