Yeah, but this doesn't even cheer Jesus. It is like going to dating website and finding a button which says "click if you want to marry me."
I think we would all agree, that cheapens marriage. Doesn't this cheapen religion?
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Click to accept Jesus?
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Yeah, but this doesn't even cheer Jesus. It is like going to dating website and finding a button which says "click if you want to marry me."
I think we would all agree, that cheapens marriage. Doesn't this cheapen religion?
sunshineforJesus
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Yep, and I accepted 37 times in three days. Apostate doesn’t begin to cover that. Somebody better gather some stones.
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dfw69
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How does the 4 spiritual laws a rejection of the doctrine of justification by grace through faith?
If the belief in the 4 spiritual laws does not save you ...then in what manner where you saved as a Lutheran?
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dfw69
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Putting ones faith into Jesus our coming saviour who will deliver us from Egypt has got to start somewhere....it does not really matter where it comes from...there is no set presidence ...just as long as someone finds him and puts their faith and trust in him ...
And not turn out like unbelievers who rather make fun of believers for sport...
And not turn out like unbelievers who rather make fun of believers for sport...
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ViaCrucis
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The Four Spiritual Laws teach Decisionism--that salvation is that one makes a decision to choose Jesus as one's Lord and Savior.
I was a Christian before I became Lutheran. I am saved by the death and resurrection of Jesus, faith in Christ has been something I've had since before I could remember.
When was I saved? That's not really the sort of question that makes sense to me. I am being saved by Christ, by the mercy of God through the faith He has given me; there was never a time I didn't believe.
If I have to give a "when", then I'd say I was saved two thousand years ago, when the Son of God hung upon the cross, who being dead and buried, was raised up from the dead on the third day; who having ascended into heaven now sits at the right hand of the Father with all power and authority until the Day He comes again, delivers all things to the Father, and God is all in all. When He comes again i hope and trust that I shall be raised up with all the saints, to life everlasting, world without end.
-CryptoLutheran
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Now they can chock up thirty seven conversions just from you! That's a pretty successful clicker.
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I wonder if I will be baptized 37 times or will it be a one and done.
I wonder if I will be baptized 37 times or will it be a one and done.
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Oh I know, and I did it 37 times!! I feel so, so… self-righteous and full of myself and have a sudden urge to ridicule.
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dfw69
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I have always believed in God since I was a child and the church told me about God. But I did not understand...so I saught after him....until I found him and I made a decision to serve him and believe him....is that wrong?.....
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Not wrong but not necessarily the way it works for all people. I was a once born Presbyterian before I became a Baha'i. Like Via Crucis there was never a time when I didn't believe in God or Jesus though there have been times when I doubted. But maybe it is the decision part you are asking about. Luther would say you could only decide by virtue of the Holy Spirit working inside you. Otherwise there would be no urge to seek Him were God not already pulling you towards Him.
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morningstar2651
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dfw69
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I agree God works in different ways for people to draw close to him....but a genuine conversation must take place at some point...that's a decision one has to make ..to choose life or choose death. ..it's a decision ....imo....but yes God sometimes reveals himself and opens the eyes...some are saved through the words of preachers...some have a godly decernment ...the list goes on
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ViaCrucis
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If you believe your efforts are salvific, then from a Lutheran position it is quite theologically wrong, and completely contrary to Scripture. We do not choose Christ, Christ chooses us; we do not come to God, God comes to us.
As I once heard from a Lutheran many years before I became a Lutheran myself, "God always comes down, we never go up." God comes down to Moses in the burning bush, God comes down to lead the way of the Israelites as a pillar of fire and smoke, God comes down in the Word of the Prophets, God comes down Incarnate in the womb of Mary as our Lord Jesus the Christ, God comes down on Pentecost, God comes down in the proclamation of the Gospel, God comes down in the waters of Baptism, God comes down in the bread and wine of the Supper, and on the Last Day God comes down to renew and restore all things.
Indeed, in the very beginning, when God had planted a garden in Eden and gave it to man to tend, we read that God came down and walked with Adam and Eve.
God always comes down. The direction throughout Scripture is always God coming down to meet us, not us going up to meet Him. God condescends, God meets sinners, God finds us in the wilderness, in our suffering, in our sin, in our death, in our tragedy. God comes down, finds us, meets us, loves us, and rescues us.
We never go up.
-CryptoLutheran
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ImaginaryDay
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Eh, not really. it's more an Evangelical bent (as is the "click here" gimmick), although traditional Protestants often get grouped in with Evangelicals. I'd rather not be, myself.
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This has led to a very interesting and fruitful discussion of the differences between what Via Crucis calls "Revivalistic Neo-Evangelical theology" or American Evangelical Christianity, as I usually call it and the evangelical theology of the original Protestant Reformers.
We Americans are hopelessly Pelagian.
We Americans are hopelessly Pelagian.
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ViaCrucis
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While the charge of Semi-Pelagianism is often hurled at proponents of Decisionism, I'm willing to say that might be a bit unfair.
Whether or not Pelagius was even himself Pelagian is itself its own discussion; though insofar as Pelagianism has been defined within the history of Christianity it is the idea that man, apart from God's grace, can live a holy and righteous life and thus reach glory entirely through human obedience to divine law. No orthodox Christian group subscribes to anything like that. Decisionism, much like the Roman Catholic understanding, involves the cooperation of the human will with divine grace; and thus divine grace being necessary renders (I'd argue) a charge of Pelagianism at best inflammatory and hyperbolic.
Of course Decisionism still remains, just like the Roman Catholic position, unacceptable in Lutheran thinking. Though with not a little bit of irony in many ways Roman Catholic though has come much closer to Lutheran thinking in many ways (at least from a Lutheran POV), in large part making modern Protestantism in many ways much more estranged from the Reformation than Rome. The relationship between Wittenberg and Rome is perhaps the best it has ever been.
-CryptoLutheran
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