Can I be Christian and Not Believe the Bible?

Givemeareason

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I think you are making a great choice in deciding to follow Jesus. However, on this point you could not be more wrong. I hope you don't mind if I use the bible to prove my point. If you want to learn about Jesus it really the only place to go. Jesus in the road to Damascus spoke to two of His followers:

And he said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?" And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
~ Luke 24:25-27 ESV.
He also said on an earlier occasion:

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
~ John 5:39-40 ESV.​

They didn't have the New Testament during the time of the Jesus and even Paul used the Old Testament to show others and teach them about Jesus. The Old Testament is about Jesus, Jesus said it Himself.

Jesus did rebuke the Pharisees for there lack of understanding of the Old Testament:

But Jesus answered them, "You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.
~ Matthew 22:29 ESV.
Jesus in his ministry did not diminish the Old Testament teachings in fact he elevated them to a higher understanding:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.
~ Matthew 5:17-22 ESV.​

Jesus as our example continually quoted what we now call the Old Testament.

But he answered, "It is written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"
~ Matthew 4:4,7,10 ESV.​

You may say well Jesus was talking to the Jews of course he would quote the Old Testament. Read His words again and the scriptures He quotes, do you really think these are matters only concerning the Jews. Did Jesus come to save the Jews or did he come to save all mankind? The OT is the foundation of the teachings of Jesus. You would not build a house without a foundation. In the New Testament when you see the phrase "It is written" or "The Scripture saith" they were referencing the OT. Jesus didn't so much as give them something new, but rather opened their eyes to what was right in front of them all along. Peter said:

To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
~ Acts 10:43 ESV.​

I made a reference about having a house without a foundation. To that end there are many keys to understanding the NT that are found in the OT. Case in point; when Martin Luther translated the bible into common language he started at the back, Revelation, and worked forward. When he completed his translation of Revelation came to the conclusion that nobody could ever understand the mysteries it contained. All of the symbolic prophetic language, he was completely baffled. As he worked backward he eventually hit the book of Daniel. When he finished Daniel it was like a light switch had been turned on. Suddenly Revelation started to make sense. Daniel contains the keys that unlock Revelation. The whole bible is like this. You use the entire collection of 66 book to give interpretation. The bible interprets itself. You can gain a lot bu reading the NT and if you read that alone, with the Holy Spirit you be a better person for it. However, you miss out on a larger and deeper understanding buy not including the OT. I'm not sure what parts of it frighten you but I assure you all of it was written and is pertinent for us today, however it's not always lying on the surface. Sometimes you have to look a little deeper.

If you really want to get on board with the bible I suggest you start buy studying prophecy. It was prophecy that convinced me. I read all the predictions made and how every single one was fulfilled exactly to the letter. I said to myself, "Wow! this is all true. God is real." May God bless you.
I think I need to explain myself more. I am 66 years old and have been athiest for 50 years. But I have always been inspired by the teachings and morality as is represented by Jesus. Meaning I love Jesus. I am absolutely amazed at the discussion that is developing here. I am not so concerned at being saved as I am concerned more with the fate of Christianity. It is the greatest religion ever and a source of inspiration for so many people. And I want it ever so much to continue in that way.
 
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Kirsten

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Your posts are excellent.
I do not understand the prayer to Mary quote though.

As I understand it praying to saints is a carry over from Roman religions in which the Roman Gods were substituted for saints and hence more of a Roman Catholic thing?
Do you also believe in the Assumption of Mary?
You are correct. There is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus. There is no need and in fact no indication at all that dead humans can hear and/or answer our prayers. Praying to anyone but God is idolatry.
 
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JacksBratt

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In a 'round about way', to mistake the Bible for Christ himself is idolatry.

Good luck with that.

Sorry for any misunderstanding for my use of words.

I did not say that the Bible, the book that is sold in stores, is Christ. I said that the Christ is the word and to not believe "the written record of His words" ( God breathed scripture) is to not believe Him.

So, if you want to be a Christian, you must follow the Bible and understand that it is the written record of Christs words, direction, wisdom, instruction for His sheep.

To consider this "idolatry" is a misunderstanding and a real stretch. We do not worship the book, we worship the God that it was given to us by. I have heard this before ( idolatry for taking the Bible as being Christ ) However, I have never seen any example of this in any church I have attended, any message I have listened to, or any person that I have had the pleasure of fellow shipping with.
 
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Catherineanne

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Your posts are excellent.
I do not understand the prayer to Mary quote though.

As I understand it praying to saints is a carry over from Roman religions in which the Roman Gods were substituted for saints and hence more of a Roman Catholic thing?
Do you also believe in the Assumption of Mary?

The prayer is not to Mary, but with Mary. I am a mother; so is she. We pray together.

Most of the wording is taken from Luke Chapter 1; it is a Biblical prayer, quoting the words of the Archangel Gabriel.

The assumption of Mary is a Roman Catholic dogma, not an Anglican one. I am an Anglican.
 
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Catherineanne

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You are correct. There is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus. There is no need and in fact no indication at all that dead humans can hear and/or answer our prayers. Praying to anyone but God is idolatry.

There are no dead Christians.

Meanwhile praying with other Christians, either here or hereafter, is perfectly fine. That is what the saints are there for; to pray alongside us.
 
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Catherineanne

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Sorry for any misunderstanding for my use of words.

I did not say that the Bible, the book that is sold in stores, is Christ. I said that the Christ is the word and to not believe "the written record of His words" ( God breathed scripture) is to not believe Him.

So, if you want to be a Christian, you must follow the Bible and understand that it is the written record of Christs words, direction, wisdom, instruction for His sheep.

To consider this "idolatry" is a misunderstanding and a real stretch. We do not worship the book, we worship the God that it was given to us by. I have heard this before ( idolatry for taking the Bible as being Christ ) However, I have never seen any example of this in any church I have attended, any message I have listened to, or any person that I have had the pleasure of fellow shipping with.

You are right, Bibliolatry is not generally found in churches, although it certainly exists. But there is far too much of it on this forum, imo.
 
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Catherineanne

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Why so snarky?

The snark is entirely your interpretation. I am simply presenting evidence.

I do however certainly find it rather amazing how many people are happy to disregard what the Bible itself says on this matter, and assume a completely different name, with absolutely no authority, no tradition and no evidence. Very often the very same people who will claim without a shadow of awareness of the irony that they are 'Bible believing.' Whatever that may mean.
 
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Architeuthus

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All Greek lexicons were developed with the doctrine of the author . In these cases they were all Sun worshipers as was the founder and protector of their Faith ,Constantine

Sun worshippers? Really?

That post shows a sad ignorance of history.

Why is weeks plural if it meant first day of week(sing)? why isnt the word day in it?

... and of Koine Greek. The phrase μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων = mia tōn sabbatōn (Luke 24:1, John 20:1, John 20:19, Acts 20:7, etc.) is a standard phrase meaning "the first day of the week" -- Sunday. And it's "tōn," not "ton" (two quite different words).

Also, please don't post links to rubbishy websites. They're totally unhelpful.
 
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Architeuthus

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I do however certainly find it rather amazing how many people are happy to disregard what the Bible itself says on this matter, and assume a completely different name, with absolutely no authority, no tradition and no evidence. Very often the very same people who will claim without a shadow of awareness of the irony that they are 'Bible believing.'

I wonder that too.
 
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bhsmte

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Twaddle.

The Word of God is alive and breathing. However wonderful any Scripture may be, it is neither of these things. God creates by a spoken word, not a written one, and the spoken word is Christ.

The Incarnation is not made of paper and ink, but flesh and blood. It was not paper and ink that died for our sins, but that same flesh and blood. It is not the Spirit of the Bible that moves in the Church but the Spirit of God; the Spirit of Christ himself. The Word of God is spoken by God himself in Scripture, but that is not the same as it being Scripture itself; there is much of Scripture that is very clearly authored by man, not God.

It is a huge mistake to confuse the Bible with God. Massive.

Would this mean that you personally hear God's voice?
 
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ananda

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Meanwhile praying with other Christians, either here or hereafter, is perfectly fine. That is what the saints are there for; to pray alongside us.
Does a saint gain omniaudience (all-hearing, to potentially thousands of persons at the same time) when attaining heaven?
 
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bhsmte

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Fair enough. However, I think sounder advice would be to look into the Bible to see whether Christ can be trusted. He is the cornerstone of our faith, not prophecy. I would go further; I would say having got this far it is time to forget the prophecy and get to know the Master. Pick up your cross and follow him, regardless of the future.

I wish you well.

How do you go about looking to the bible to see if Christ can be trusted?

Also, how do you determine the gospels are a reliable reflection of the same?
 
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bhsmte

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I think I need to explain myself more. I am 66 years old and have been athiest for 50 years. But I have always been inspired by the teachings and morality as is represented by Jesus. Meaning I love Jesus. I am absolutely amazed at the discussion that is developing here. I am not so concerned at being saved as I am concerned more with the fate of Christianity. It is the greatest religion ever and a source of inspiration for so many people. And I want it ever so much to continue in that way.

Quick question.

If what you say above is true, why have you been an atheist for 50 years?
 
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ananda

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The phrase μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων = mia tōn sabbatōn (Luke 24:1, John 20:1, John 20:19, Acts 20:7, etc.) is a standard phrase meaning "the first day of the week" -- Sunday. And it's "tōn," not "ton" (two quite different words).

Also, please don't post links to rubbishy websites. They're totally unhelpful.
mia(cardinal) ton sabbaton = "one(cardinal) of the sabbaths", not "first(ordinal) day of the week." The Greek word "h/ebdomadas" refers to a week, as is found the LXX.

"mia ton sabbaton" was re-interpreted after the NT era to mean "first day of the week" (Sunday).
 
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Albion

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I think I need to explain myself more. I am 66 years old and have been athiest for 50 years. But I have always been inspired by the teachings and morality as is represented by Jesus. Meaning I love Jesus. I am absolutely amazed at the discussion that is developing here. I am not so concerned at being saved as I am concerned more with the fate of Christianity. It is the greatest religion ever and a source of inspiration for so many people. And I want it ever so much to continue in that way.

I have to say that you've posed a very unusual set of questions to us that are not easy for us to deal with. If we take the "What church would be best for me?" kind of element that was in the OP off the table, we have you lauding Jesus and the Christian religion for reasons we can appreciate BUT which--in both cases--amount to you having made both of them into something they are not. How do we respond to that?

Jesus made clear that he wasn't just an advocate for kindness, harmony, and fair play. Christianity is not just a movement that advocates those things and nothing else. BOTH have made the point that to see them that way is to miss the heart and soul of what defines them. In short, you don't come as an enemy but you don't come with an interest in apprehending either Jesus or his church as they are. So...we don't exactly know how to move forward from here.
 
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ananda

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I think I need to explain myself more. I am 66 years old and have been athiest for 50 years. But I have always been inspired by the teachings and morality as is represented by Jesus. Meaning I love Jesus. I am absolutely amazed at the discussion that is developing here. I am not so concerned at being saved as I am concerned more with the fate of Christianity. It is the greatest religion ever and a source of inspiration for so many people. And I want it ever so much to continue in that way.
What makes you say that it is the greatest religion ever?
 
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