After the Thousand Years (An Interpretation of Rev. 20:7-10)

jwmealy said:

I'll stand up and claim that where the rich man goes is not the lake of fire. Two reasons. (1) he is not yet resurrected, nor is Lazarus. His brothers are still living normal mortal lives in this age. (2) John sees hades give up the dead that are in it to be judged in Rev. 20:13, then he sees death and hades cast into the lake of fire along with those whose names are not listed in the book of life. Ergo, hades is pictured as a temporary state of imprisonment for the unrepentant between death and resurrection, a prison to which Jesus himself has the keys (Rev. 1:18). Before you answer, please consider that you could be invited to the Lord's wedding banquet and be seated right next to me. Please reply in a way that would not make you embarrassed at the way you had treated your Christian brother.

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Like I said to the previous posters, Hades in Rev 13 is referencing the grave. Death and hell/the grave/Hades are cast into the lake of fire symbolically. They are not persons, but things and places. Things and places are not thrown into the lake of fire, persons are. It is symbolic of death and the grave/hell being no more. Death and the grave went hand in hand. What proves the fact, is the rich man being able to look up and see persons in heaven. That can only be if he's in the lake of fire (Rev 14:10-11). No other place offers that opportunity.

Secondly, the 1st death which is mortal death is called sleep thru out scriptures because it involves being unconscious. Both mortal death which is the 1st death and sleep are states of unconsciousness. The 2nd death is not. If the 2nd death was unconsciousness, it wouldn't be any different than the 1st death and sleep. What separates the 2nd death from sleep and the 1st death is consciousness. Sleep is not death because sleep involves awakening. Death, the real death and the definition of death, is the lake of fire eternal burning and damnation, created for the immortal angels, specifically for the Devil and his angels. That is the true definition of death, not sleep.

There are no judgment vials poured out in the new covenant age of grace, instead we are told the following:

Revelation 20:9
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

This points to the seventh trumpet being blown and Lord calling time no longer as far as the new covenant age is concerned, after all the book of revelation is addressed to the new covenant churches in John's time.

The seventh trumpet is th brilliant coming of the Lord that obliterates everything in his path.

So Christ already came, the resurrection is past, and you're a Christian.

Got it.

iamlamad said:

AXIOM ON REVELATION:
ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

When all is said and done, and you are sitting on a cloud harping with your harp, you will find this axiom is truth.

The truth is, NO trumpet can be sounded until all 7 seals are broken, and no vial will be poured out until all 7 trumpets have sounded. The 7th trumpet will mark the EXACT MIDPOINT of the week, being sounded in heaven at the moment the abomination is accomplished on earth.

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Have you ever seen a movie or read a book, where the first scene or page was about the last point in time of an event?

God can do everything that Hollywood does, but better.

In Revelation chapter 6 John is told to "come and see" after Christ removes the seals.

John is then shown a vision of Armageddon.

The same characters are involved, kings, captains, and mighty men.

They are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb, therefore the Lamb must be present at this time.


Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.



Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.



Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.


This shows beyond any doubt the Book of Revelation is Not in chronological order.

The question is ... Can you accept this fact if shown the proof?

It would mean saying you could have been wrong in the past.
Most people's pride would not allow them to do so.

I love you, Lamad.

I don't think he means that, TTL. He is simply reading Rev 20, as many do, as being about this current age of Christ's kingdom; those who believe have passed from life to death (Jn 5); believers who have died and/or martyred as seen as reigning with the 'cloud of witnesses' of Heb 11, 12. And there is still another death and resurrection to come, 20:6. Notice how v6 speaks directly to us.

iamlamad said:

Of course it is scripture: you just don't believe it. How amazing, the rich man believed it, and God saw fit to leave us his testimony, yet you still don't believe it. We have now many more testimonies of people whom God has taken to hell, to see it with their own eyes, then come and tell us about it. They all agree with the scriptures. If you wish to play Ostrich Syndrome, ignore all the evidence that is available, that is between you and God. As the scriptures say,

1 Corinthians 14:38
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

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Ignorance is not being able to acknowledge the facts. I provided undeniable facts, and try to respond with some off the wall comment. Cain burning in hell for 6,000 yrs in unscripted. It is not scripture!

Try addressing the fact consciousness is what separates sleep and the 1st death (mortal death) from the second death. Try addressing the fact there's nowhere else other than the lake of fire where you can look up from your burning and see persons in heaven, proven in Rev 14:10-11.

The important thing to remember here is that you're Israel and the one that is having rockets shot at it isn't..

precepts said:

The places called hell that you are referring to is the lake of fire. Why can't you understand that?

Mortal death (the 1st death) is called sleep thru out scriptures because it is unconsciousness. The 2nd death isn't, which makes it the real death, created for the immortal angels. It's a forever burning and torment of consciousness. Being conscious or awake is what separates the 1st death, which is sleep, from the second death, which is not - your stumbling block!

You talk too much. Both Lazarus and the rich man were resurrected, evident because there's only one place of burning where you will be able to look up and see persons in heaven, Rev 14:10-11. Hades, the grave, or any other so-called places of abode after death does not occupy that space, does not have that opportunity, does not have a view of persons in heaven. So, you're the one that's wrong, and is preaching false doctrine!

Get a grip.

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You can be wrong if you want to be. So far it seems that is what you want.
If you wish to teach soul sleep, a doctrine of devils, it is a free country.
However, a second after you die, you will know better.

Interplanner said:

I don't think he means that, TTL. He is simply reading Rev 20, as many do, as being about this current age of Christ's kingdom; those who believe have passed from life to death (Jn 5); believers who have died and/or martyred as seen as reigning with the 'cloud of witnesses' of Heb 11, 12. And there is still another death and resurrection to come, 20:6. Notice how v6 speaks directly to us.

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To believe that Rev 20 is past is to believe that Christ came already and that the resurrection is past.

It denies the fundamental truth of Christianity. The resurrection of the dead at His coming.

precepts said:

Ignorance is not being able to acknowledge the facts. I provided undeniable facts, and try to respond with some off the wall comment. Cain burning in hell for 6,000 yrs in unscripted. It is not scripture!

Try addressing the fact consciousness is what separates sleep and the 1st death (mortal death) from the second death. Try addressing the fact there's nowhere else other than the lake of fire where you can look up from your burning and see persons in heaven, proven in Rev 14:10-11.

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Soul sleep a a false doctrine. If you choose to believe such nonsense, you can. Do you imagine that Jesus went into 3 days and 3 nights of soul sleep?

Your facts are only facts in your thinking, not reality. Where do you think Cain has been all these years?

Psalm 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Souls don't sleep - they are sent to hell.

Isaiah 14:9
Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Hell is NOT sleep.

Berean777 said:

That is why after the vials are poured the first beast and false prophet are killed off and the devil gets his prison time. This ends the old covenant age chapter by th killing of the first beast.
This is the battle of Armageddon.

Then at the end of the symbolic millennium which is the time, time and half a time for the witnesses of Christ to preach the gospel in all th world, th devil is let loose again for the final time to decieve the nations, in which the first beast is healed and given life by a lamb like second beast which points to a counterfeit Christ like false prophet. This Gog and Magog battle is the new covenant age finale.

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What right do you have to make the 1000 year reign of Christ symbolic? God surely didn't. It is only your imagination running wild.

Lamad, you know perfectly well that it is ANYTHING BUT a thousand literal years.

Berean777 said:

No there is no judgment vials after the fourth seal. All seven judgment vials are poured upon the first beast that gets the head wound during John's time who states that five kings have passed and one is. Babylon the great is the first beast that received all the seven vials to bring it down.

The seven judgment vials are related to the four horses of the apocalypse, that is the first four seals. Fifth seal is the initiating by Christ of the resurrection of the dead and beginning of the official new covenant age that is the beginning of the millennium reign and the doing away of the first beast of the old covenant age.

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You are so far off from truth, you have left the proverbial ball park. To begin with, the seals are not judgments. They are not a part of the "trib" or 70th week. Do you imagine that the martyrs under the altar are there due to God judging them?

In case you didn't notice, there is progression in Revelation, as the trumpet judgments are not the full anger of God, but as we read, some are only 1/3 of what they could be. But because people refuse to repent, by the time the vials come, it is not 1/3, but total. The trumpets will be sounded in the first half of the week, and the vials in the last half of the week.

I guess you have totally missed this:

8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

This is telling us that NO TRUMPET will be sounded until all 7 seals are broken or opened.

Your theories will certainly be proven wrong, because you have chosen to rearrange John's God given order.

ThatTrueLight said:

Lamad, you know perfectly well that it is ANYTHING BUT a thousand literal years.

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Can I help it if you just can't believe the written word? What is written in Revelation is every bit as true as John 3:16 is true.

iamlamad said:

Can I help it if you just can't believe the written word? What is written in Revelation is every bit as true as John 3:16 is true.

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Amen Bro!

BABerean2 said:

Have you ever seen a movie or read a book, where the first scene or page was about the last point in time of an event?

God can do everything that Hollywood does, but better.

In Revelation chapter 6 John is told to "come and see" after Christ removes the seals.

John is then shown a vision of Armageddon.

The same characters are involved, kings, captains, and mighty men.

They are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb, therefore the Lamb must be present at this time.


Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.



Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.



Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.


This shows beyond any doubt the Book of Revelation is Not in chronological order.

The question is ... Can you accept this fact if shown the proof?

It would mean saying you could have been wrong in the past.
Most people's pride would not allow them to do so.

I love you, Lamad.

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Your "proof" is anything but. Go back and read at the 6th seal. WHERE IS GOD? He is still on His throne. In case you missed it, I have admitted several times on this forum that I was wrong. Then read again that the angels don't get their trumpets until after all the seals are broken. In other words, the seals and the trumpets will take place in the exact order that John wrote them.

iamlamad said:

You can be wrong if you want to be. So far it seems that is what you want.

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You keep trying to state your opinion as fact. Your opinions and whatever you say that has nothing to do with the facts has no effect on me, because your psychology doesn't work on me.

iamlamad said:

If you wish to teach soul sleep, a doctrine of devils, it is a free country.

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You are calling Christ and the scriptures devils, which doesn't surprise me. The Pharisees and Sadducees did too.

iamlamad said:

However, a second after you die, you will know better.

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That's what I said, "Your psychology doesn't work on me!" Keep running from the facts. There's only one place anyone can look up from burning and witness anyone in heaven, and that's in Rev 14:10-11.

iamlamad said:

Soul sleep a a false doctrine. If you choose to believe such nonsense, you can. Do you imagine that Jesus went into 3 days and 3 nights of soul sleep?

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He said he would spend 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth. That is considered soul sleep since God can't die, but he can sleep.

iamlamad said:

Your facts are only facts in your thinking, not reality. Where do you think Cain has been all these years?

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You don't know fact from fiction, which is evident.

iamlamad said:

Psalm 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Souls don't sleep - they are sent to hell.

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I am to believe you and not Christ and the scriptures? You are misinterpreting the words hell and Hades used to mean the grave, the world void of God, Satan and his angels, and the lake of fire. In this case, it's referring to the grave.

iamlamad said:

Isaiah 14:9
Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Hell is NOT sleep.

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Hell is moved to meet thee, THE DEAD are stirred up.... Because they were asleep!