After the Thousand Years (An Interpretation of Rev. 20:7-10)

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Interplanner

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For a much shorter (128 pages), and far more accessible presentation of the view developed in my scholarly monograph After the Thousand Years, see New Creation Millennialism (msword) or New Creation Millennialism (Adobe pdf). This short book contains a powerful critique and refutation of both conventional premillennialism and amillennialism, followed by a straightforward exegesis of Rev. 19:5--21:8.



Some problems: the millenium is not in the new creation.
2, There are no clear NT uses of Ezek 38, 39. With 2500 uses of the OT by the NT, and those chapters not being quoted, it is wisest not to make as much out of them as so many prophecy experts do. And to stick with the ones it quotes the most.
3, There is a final rebellion all over the world. It is not about Israel vs nations. It is against all of God's people.
4, there is nothing Judaic or geo-political about the end of time in 2 Peter 3's summary.
 
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Straightshot

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It is unbelievers who will experience the second death of their spirits in the lake of fire

.... those who refuse to believe the truth about the Lord

When a man dies physically he goes nowhere until the Lord calls him

We are told that the spirit of a man returns to the Lord [Ecclesiastes 12:7] for keeping until either the resurrection to eternal life, or to the resurrection of the second death [Daniel 12:2; John 3:16-18]

We are also told that the dead no nothing until .... and that our thoughts perish [Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 146:4]

No man has gone to heaven except the One who has come down from heaven [John 3:13], and the second death for unbelievers has not yet come .... when it does there will be no recourse for them [Revelation 20:11-15]

So this gives the understanding that all of the dead are waiting unto this very day for the Lord's call either to eternal life, or to the second death

Examples: both David and Stephen fell asleep in death, and both are waiting for the Lord's call

And the dead in Christ will awake at the Lord's call [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-52; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-15]

Luke 16:19-31 is a parable
 
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iamlamad

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I'll stand up and claim that where the rich man goes is not the lake of fire. Two reasons. (1) he is not yet resurrected, nor is Lazarus. His brothers are still living normal mortal lives in this age. (2) John sees hades give up the dead that are in it to be judged in Rev. 20:13, then he sees death and hades cast into the lake of fire along with those whose names are not listed in the book of life. Ergo, hades is pictured as a temporary state of imprisonment for the unrepentant between death and resurrection, a prison to which Jesus himself has the keys (Rev. 1:18). Before you answer, please consider that you could be invited to the Lord's wedding banquet and be seated right next to me. Please reply in a way that would not make you embarrassed at the way you had treated your Christian brother.


Ha ha! Humorous but correct.
 
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BABerean2

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It is unbelievers who will experience the second death of their spirits in the lake of fire

.... those who refuse to believe the truth about the Lord

When a man dies physically he goes nowhere until the Lord calls him

We are told that the spirit of a man returns to the Lord [Ecclesiastes 12:7] for keeping until either the resurrection to eternal life, or to the resurrection of the second death [Daniel 12:2; John 3:16-18]

We are also told that the dead no nothing until .... and that our thoughts perish [Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 146:4]

No man has gone to heaven except the One who has come down from heaven [John 3:13], and the second death for unbelievers has not yet come .... when it does there will be no recourse for them [Revelation 20:11-15]

So this gives the understanding that all of the dead are waiting unto this very day for the Lord's call either to eternal life, or to the second death

Examples: both David and Stephen fell asleep in death, and both are waiting for the Lord's call

And the dead in Christ will awake at the Lord's call [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-52; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-15]

Luke 16:19-31 is a parable


Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 
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Berean777

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Rainbow of God and the little book of life is in the hands of the living Word Christ Jesus.

Revelation 4:3
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the (HIS) throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

This is the rainbow that emanates from the throne of God and it is his covenant/promise to man.

If we take the same word rainbow and the definition explained in the verse above we have no question to the identity of the Almighty seventh Angel who speaks as the God authority, because when he speaks, the seven thunders utter their voices. The seven thunders uttering their voices implies that this Almighty Angel is the Living Word of God, the LOGOS.

Revelation 4:5
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Revelation 10:1-2
And I saw THE LIVING WORD come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

This Almighty Angel has all the responsibility in the world by the majestic description that is reserved only for him.

He is declared to have dominion upon the sea, meaning all peoples from every nation.
He is declared to have dominion upon the earth, meaning creation/Genesis.

He is said to have in his possession The Book of Life, that no other angel has in their possession except him, because he is the only one worthy to open this book because he is the lamb slain from the beginning of the world.

His feet are pillars of fire as was described in:

Revelation 4:3
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

The sardius, better known in our day as the carnelian, is red. Hengstenberg quotes ancient authorities who call it ‘blood-colored’ and takes it to describe the righteous wrath of God, the color of the fire of divine anger.

So the feet are pillars of fire is describing this Almighty Angel has at his feet meaning at his immediate disposal, the righteousness wrath of God, where Sardis is the color of the fire of Devine anger declared in Rev 4:3, which is the exact parallel of FEET AS PILLARS OF FIRE.

He is declared to have a face like the sun, which depicts the vision on the mount of transfiguration shown to the disciples and it points to the highest Devine authority. The Almighty Angel has all the Devine authority on his shoulders and his face is the brilliance of God himself, the express image of his person.

Hebrews 1:3-4
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Who is this Almighty Angel who blows the seventh trumpet who has the authority of God himself?

Who comes and is clothed with the symbol of the Cloud?

Revelation 14:14
And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

The White Cloud is the symbol of the angelic hosts of heaven.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

So who is the Almighty Angel that is bestowed such great honour and glory as the one described above?

The Living Word Christ Jesus.

This Almighty Angel sounds the seventh trumpet and declares Time No Longer.

Who can declare Time No Longer except the authority be God himself.

The seventh trumpet sounded by the Living Word Christ Jesus calls it the end and at this point in time every human being is dead and all life in the sea and on the land is given up and those that had not been raised after the first death, they and Hell itself are thrown into the lake of fire, called the second death.


There is no pre or post trib when the seventh trumpet is sounded by the Lord, because it is over, the end!

1 Corinthians 15:24-27
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

The risen Lord when he sounds the seventh trumpet he would have put everything under his pillary feet. The last enemy that is death, is defeated because every human being is dead, either they have entered in through the first resurrection or have been exterminated in the lake of fire, the second death. Past this point at the sounding of the seventh trumpet death can not continue, that is why at this point death is completely defeated by being routed out. For obvious reasons there is no one left to die, game over, the end!
 
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Straightshot

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Jesus Christ is not an angel .... He made them all

He is both God and human .... angels do not possess either of these attributes

.... and He is not Michael the archangel as some tell

To relegate the Lord to angelic status denies His deity

And I know of only two sects of professing Christianity that teach what you are implying

So what's up man of Nineveh?
 
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jwmealy

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Some problems: the millenium is not in the new creation.
2, There are no clear NT uses of Ezek 38, 39. With 2500 uses of the OT by the NT, and those chapters not being quoted, it is wisest not to make as much out of them as so many prophecy experts do. And to stick with the ones it quotes the most.
3, There is a final rebellion all over the world. It is not about Israel vs nations. It is against all of God's people.
4, there is nothing Judaic or geo-political about the end of time in 2 Peter 3's summary.
1. Perhaps you think the millennium takes place in this creation because you read the Book of Revelation chronologically. I think John teaches us to read it mostly thematically. It keeps revealing judgments, but cycling back numerous times to reveal more viewpoints on the coming of Christ and God in glory to rule on earth with their faithful ones. As I understand it, John gives a number of clear indications that the scene of Rev. 21:1-8 is a revelation of the coming of Christ and God in glory. Ergo, as the most unforced reading of 2 Pet. 3 would conclude, John too sees the new creation as associated with the coming in glory that spells the end of this age and the inauguration of the age to come, the thousand years.
2. This is a reasonable admonition. John does, however, unmistakably allude to both chapters (39 in Rev. 19, and 38 in Rev. 20). I think Isaiah 24-27 is far more important as a narrative grid with which to coordinate our interpretation of Rev. 19-21. Isaiah is the prophet that all NT writers quote far more often than any other. Even the author of Hebrews quotes Isa. 26:10-11 as scriptural background for the final judgment of the unrepentant (see Heb. 10:26-27).
3. Ok...nothing about this impinges on my thesis.
4. Ok...nothing about this impinges on my thesis.

Why don't you read through the part of the online draft I shared that critiques conventional premillennialism and amillennialism, and see if it hooks you; I then offer a clear, simple, verse-by-verse exegesis of Rev. 19-21.
 
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Berean777

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The brilliant coming of the Lord is the seventh trumpet call by the Lord himself in declaring time no longer, which follows after the Day of the Lord / Days of slaughter. If God didn't cut those days short, the very remaining elect still alive in their earthly bodies will also perish, because the earth which is the life support system is becoming inhospitable to live in. The state of the earth is elaborately described in Joel 2:1-11, as pitch black days, earth continually quaking and the earth covered with its slain. That is why in those days metaphorically speaking people will seek death rather than to live to see this slow agony of continuous peril.

That being said when the Lord comes it will be like in Genesis where he declares his presence by saying LET THERE BE LIGHT. In this instant the piercing LIGHT that is the Lord who comes will completely obliterate the Genesis earthly realm as we know it.

Some will say he comes and renews it. The answer in short is No!

The Lord does not come and renew something back to the way it was previously as in Genesis, to a terrestrial type of existence. The Lord comes and obliterates terrestrial Genesis when his LIGHT COMES and no one will feel a thing. It will be for the enemy of Christ like here they are and then they are not, no where to be seen. The enemy will completely be erased as if they never existed in the first place.

The Lord has prepared a place in his Father's house in heaven suited for the angelic celestial bodies that are given to those who enter in through the first resurrection to the wedding supper of the lamb.

1 Corinthians 15:40-49
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

The future earth is NOT TERESTRIAL OR EARTHY but is heavenly in Christ's Father's house in heaven.
 
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Like I asked you before, "How many sermon have been preached on the different places and states that are defined under the word hell?"

Hades, Hell, Gehenna, etc all relate to the same thing, but can relate to different states and places.

The grave is referred to as Hades in some scripture, specifically in the verse you are quoting.

Gehenna, another word used for hell, was also Israel's garbage dump that burned continually. They are metaphors for the place of eternal abode for sinners, death, and the grave.

So, based on the text, Rev 20:13 is referring to the grave because no one comes out of a placing of burning and torment to then go to the lake of fire to be burned and tormented forever. That's redundant.

Death and the grave (Hades) go hand in hand, and we know the rich man was already dead and resurrected. So, he was in the lake of fire, Hades, Sheol, etc.

No one anywhere else but in the lake of fire can see persons in heaven, which is another proof for the fact. The lake of fire is situated in the presence of the angels and the Lamb, Rev 14:10.
You are confusing yourself. Look past whatever sermons you have been listening to. Pick up a concordance, note the usage of each term and the context, then you will see your error. Or in fact, google them, there are many resources showing quite clearly the differences. I hope you do.
 
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precepts

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It is amazing that one has to spoon feed people who come here to teach others.
The scriptures do say a fool is wise in his own conceit, you know. It also says reproofs enter more into a wise man than a 100 stripes into a fool.

Either way it's a no win situation for the wise man arguing with the ignorant.

It is written, and you know it as well as I, that the rich man was taken to hell, and in hell he was in torture.
Agreed?
Where else other than in the lake of fire can anyone look up and see persons in heaven? (Rev 14:10,11)

Cain, for example, has been in hell since the days of Adam. Untold millions have followed. Hell has been expanded to hold the untold millions that are there. it matters not if you don't believe it - it is true anyway. A Pope was seen in hell. Famous singers have been seen there. Hitler has for sure been there since the 1940's. Stalin is quite likely there. But millions of unknown people are there.
And Cro-Magnon wasn't seen there? It makes no sense for me to carry on this conversation, seeing you lack knowledge and understanding. You have other endeavors, pure folly and disobedience.

With this in mind, what does God say?

Rev. 20
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


Let's take Cain for an example: He has spent nearly 6000 years in hell. When the 1000 year reign of Christ is over and the last battle is fought, and it is time for the great, white throne judgment, all those in hell will be RAISED or resurrected to stand trial before the Ancient of Days. Cain will finally be resurrected, and stand before God. When he is judged, he will be sent to the lake of fire. He suffered his FIRST death almost 6000 years ago and was sent to hades or hell. But when he is sent to the lake of fire, it is the SECOND DEATH. Surely you know enough about numbers to know that first and second are difference and can never be the same.
You are blaspheming, posting false statement that's not written in scripture. Hades is the grave. That is why death and the grave (hades) are thrown into the lake of fire. They go hand in hand. When mortal man dies (Cain) there's no life until the resurrections. No one burns in the grave. No one burns in any place else other than in the lake of fire, the scriptural equivalent of the ABCs. But you already know this. You only do this because you are offended at the truth (Cain). Mortal death is sleep because both occupy unconsciousness. The 2nd death doesn't. Com prende?

Therefore your theory is simply wrong. Hell is NOT the lake of fire. The Beast and False prophet will be the first humans to enter the lake of fire. Satan will follow them. And after the white throne judgment, all of hell will follow them. This is the truth of scripture. Don't waste your breath trying to refute truth. You will be wasting your time.
You amuse me. Hades which is the grave is not a burning upon one's death. It's unscripted. It is called sleep. But the second death is not sleep, meaning you will forever be awake, the difference between the 2nd death and sleep which is the 1st death is consciousness! The world can see that.
 
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iamlamad

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The scriptures do say a fool is wise in his own conceit, you know. It also says reproofs enter more into a wise man than a 100 stripes into a fool.

Either way it's a no win situation for the wise man arguing with the ignorant.

Where else other than in the lake of fire can anyone look up and see persons in heaven?

And Cro-Magnon wasn't seen there? It makes no sense for me to carry on this conversation, seeing you lack knowledge and understanding. You have other endeavors. This is pure folly and disobedience.

You are blaspheming, posting false statement that's not written in scripture. Hades is the grave. That is why death and the grave (hades) are thrown into the lake of fire. When mortal man dies (Cain) there's no life until the resurrections. No one burns in the grave. No one burns in any place else other than in the lake of fire, the scriptural equivalent of the ABCs. But you already know this. You only do this because you are offended at the truth (Cain). Mortal death is sleep because both occupy unconsciousness. The 2nd death doesn't. Com prende?

You amuse me. Hades, which is the grave, is not a burning upon one's death. That's unscripted. The second death is not sleep, meaning you will forever be awake. That's the difference between death and sleep, consciousness!

Of course it is scripture: you just don't believe it. How amazing, the rich man believed it, and God saw fit to leave us his testimony, yet you still don't believe it. We have now many more testimonies of people whom God has taken to hell, to see it with their own eyes, then come and tell us about it. They all agree with the scriptures. If you wish to play Ostrich Syndrome, ignore all the evidence that is available, that is between you and God. As the scriptures say,

1 Corinthians 14:38
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
 
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iamlamad

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Rainbow of God and the little book of life is in the hands of the living Word Christ Jesus.

Revelation 4:3
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the (HIS) throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

This is the rainbow that emanates from the throne of God and it is his covenant/promise to man.

If we take the same word rainbow and the definition explained in the verse above we have no question to the identity of the Almighty seventh Angel who speaks as the God authority, because when he speaks, the seven thunders utter their voices. The seven thunders uttering their voices implies that this Almighty Angel is the Living Word of God, the LOGOS.

Revelation 4:5
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Revelation 10:1-2
And I saw THE LIVING WORD come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

This Almighty Angel has all the responsibility in the world by the majestic description that is reserved only for him.

He is declared to have dominion upon the sea, meaning all peoples from every nation.
He is declared to have dominion upon the earth, meaning creation/Genesis.

He is said to have in his possession The Book of Life, that no other angel has in their possession except him, because he is the only one worthy to open this book because he is the lamb slain from the beginning of the world.

His feet are pillars of fire as was described in:

Revelation 4:3
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

The sardius, better known in our day as the carnelian, is red. Hengstenberg quotes ancient authorities who call it ‘blood-colored’ and takes it to describe the righteous wrath of God, the color of the fire of divine anger.

So the feet are pillars of fire is describing this Almighty Angel has at his feet meaning at his immediate disposal, the righteousness wrath of God, where Sardis is the color of the fire of Devine anger declared in Rev 4:3, which is the exact parallel of FEET AS PILLARS OF FIRE.

He is declared to have a face like the sun, which depicts the vision on the mount of transfiguration shown to the disciples and it points to the highest Devine authority. The Almighty Angel has all the Devine authority on his shoulders and his face is the brilliance of God himself, the express image of his person.

Hebrews 1:3-4
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Who is this Almighty Angel who blows the seventh trumpet who has the authority of God himself?

Who comes and is clothed with the symbol of the Cloud?

Revelation 14:14
And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

The White Cloud is the symbol of the angelic hosts of heaven.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

So who is the Almighty Angel that is bestowed such great honour and glory as the one described above?

The Living Word Christ Jesus.

This Almighty Angel sounds the seventh trumpet and declares Time No Longer.

Who can declare Time No Longer except the authority be God himself.

The seventh trumpet sounded by the Living Word Christ Jesus calls it the end and at this point in time every human being is dead and all life in the sea and on the land is given up and those that had not been raised after the first death, they and Hell itself are thrown into the lake of fire, called the second death.


There is no pre or post trib when the seventh trumpet is sounded by the Lord, because it is over, the end!

1 Corinthians 15:24-27
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

The risen Lord when he sounds the seventh trumpet he would have put everything under his pillary feet. The last enemy that is death, is defeated because every human being is dead, either they have entered in through the first resurrection or have been exterminated in the lake of fire, the second death. Past this point at the sounding of the seventh trumpet death can not continue, that is why at this point death is completely defeated by being routed out. For obvious reasons there is no one left to die, game over, the end!

AXIOM ON REVELATION:
ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

When all is said and done, and you are sitting on a cloud harping with your harp, you will find this axiom is truth.

The truth is, NO trumpet can be sounded until all 7 seals are broken, and no vial will be poured out until all 7 trumpets have sounded. The 7th trumpet will mark the EXACT MIDPOINT of the week, being sounded in heaven at the moment the abomination is accomplished on earth.
 
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precepts

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You just continue to teach false doctrine. Go back and read the gospels: Jesus speaks often of hell - the place sinners go after death. And He tells us there will be FIRE and where there are worms that don't die. Yet, they are not resurrected, but are dead - meaning it is their SPIRIT with their soul that goes to hell. NO sinner will be resurrected until after Jesus' 1000 year reign, far into our future. Yet, the rich man was cast into hell after death.
The places called hell that you are referring to is the lake of fire. Why can't you understand that?

Mortal death (the 1st death) is called sleep thru out scriptures because it is unconsciousness. The 2nd death isn't, which makes it the real death, created for the immortal angels. It's a forever burning and torment of consciousness. Being conscious or awake is what separates the 1st death, which is sleep, from the second death, which is not - your stumbling block!

Face it: you just ad libbed his resurrection. He is STILL in hell waiting resurrection. You are wrong. Hell is NOT eternal, it is only a temporary holding place. Sinners will be resurrected and brought out of hell, judged and then cast into their eternal abode: the lake of fire.
You talk too much. Both Lazarus and the rich man were resurrected, evident because there's only one place of burning where you will be able to look up and see persons in heaven, Rev 14:10-11. Hades, the grave, or any other so-called places of abode after death does not occupy that space, does not have that opportunity, does not have a view of persons in heaven. So, you're the one that's wrong, and is preaching false doctrine!

Get a grip.
 
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Berean777

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AXIOM ON REVELATION:
ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

When all is said and done, and you are sitting on a cloud harping with your harp, you will find this axiom is truth.

The truth is, NO trumpet can be sounded until all 7 seals are broken, and no vial will be poured out until all 7 trumpets have sounded. The 7th trumpet will mark the EXACT MIDPOINT of the week, being sounded in heaven at the moment the abomination is accomplished on earth.

No there is no judgment vials after the fourth seal. All seven judgment vials are poured upon the first beast that gets the head wound during John's time who states that five kings have passed and one is. Babylon the great is the first beast that received all the seven vials to bring it down.

The seven judgment vials are related to the four horses of the apocalypse, that is the first four seals. Fifth seal is the initiating by Christ of the resurrection of the dead and beginning of the official new covenant age that is the beginning of the millennium reign and the doing away of the first beast of the old covenant age.
 
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to Jrmealy,
I didn't realize you had made the very long reign of Christ an part of the NHNE. Can you do this given the few chronological connectors that are there as it moves from the paragraph of the thousand years to the judgement and to the NHNE?

I will try to get some of that reading done on the weekend.

I never base anything on the Rev that is not crystal clear in other NT material.
 
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Berean777

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That is why after the vials are poured the first beast and false prophet are killed off and the devil gets his prison time. This ends the old covenant age chapter by th killing of the first beast.
This is the battle of Armageddon.

Then at the end of the symbolic millennium which is the time, time and half a time for the witnesses of Christ to preach the gospel in all th world, th devil is let loose again for the final time to decieve the nations, in which the first beast is healed and given life by a lamb like second beast which points to a counterfeit Christ like false prophet. This Gog and Magog battle is the new covenant age finale.
 
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1. Perhaps you think the millennium takes place in this creation because you read the Book of Revelation chronologically. I think John teaches us to read it mostly thematically. It keeps revealing judgments, but cycling back numerous times to reveal more viewpoints on the coming of Christ and God in glory to rule on earth with their faithful ones. As I understand it, John gives a number of clear indications that the scene of Rev. 21:1-8 is a revelation of the coming of Christ and God in glory. Ergo, as the most unforced reading of 2 Pet. 3 would conclude, John too sees the new creation as associated with the coming in glory that spells the end of this age and the inauguration of the age to come, the thousand years.
2. This is a reasonable admonition. John does, however, unmistakably allude to both chapters (39 in Rev. 19, and 38 in Rev. 20). I think Isaiah 24-27 is far more important as a narrative grid with which to coordinate our interpretation of Rev. 19-21. Isaiah is the prophet that all NT writers quote far more often than any other. Even the author of Hebrews quotes Isa. 26:10-11 as scriptural background for the final judgment of the unrepentant (see Heb. 10:26-27).
3. Ok...nothing about this impinges on my thesis.
4. Ok...nothing about this impinges on my thesis.

Why don't you read through the part of the online draft I shared that critiques conventional premillennialism and amillennialism, and see if it hooks you; I then offer a clear, simple, verse-by-verse exegesis of Rev. 19-21.


re the quotes of Ezek. I was referring to cases where the NT passage says "As it is written..." and (for what it's worth) where the board of the NIV made a footnote. I see Ps 2 is a footnote to 19:15, but that's it for quotes in those two Rev chapters.

btw, the 20:5 and the fact that the NIV board put it in ()s, has been a strong reason to me to see it as an overlay of the current kingdom of God. It also teaches us that even though those believers have died, they live in victory over this world, in the Jerusalem that is "above" which never touches the earth until the NHNE, 21:1.
 
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