What's so bad about the Book of Mormon?

fatboys · May 25, 2015

mmksparbud said:
Been looking, nobody has discredited it yet--that I can find--and that statement has been around a long time now.

One reason that Joseph Smith could give these stories is because after Moroni visited him there were others who did also and told him of names and places and history so when he was able to translate it was familiar to him

mmksparbud · May 25, 2015

fatboys said:
One reason that Joseph Smith could give these stories is because after Moroni visited him there were others who did also and told him of names and places and history so when he was able to translate it was familiar to him

This does not answer the question that comes up when you think about what his mother said--That he was making up stories about the American Indians and their religion as if he had been there--all as a child before he ever had his visits from this Moroni. At a time he had not even started to read the bile yet. He didn't start reading the bible till he was 18. He was making up stories just to entertain family and friends.

zelosravioli · May 25, 2015

only a moment to write today. The statment comes from Joes own mother - Lucy Mack Smiths own book, which she wrote, she is a mormon and Joes mom. The book is available as a reprint, and, this is the interesting part, I am sure this book was one that LDS elders were instructed to recollect from members back then, after it became evident that these statements in it questioned Joes innocence in making the story up. Another interesting part of Joes history is where Joes father had dreams about certain concepts, prior to the book of Mormon, that made their way into the BOM also..

smaneck · May 25, 2015

zelosravioli said:
only a moment to write today. The statment comes from Joes own mother - Lucy Mack Smiths own book, which she wrote, she is a mormon and Joes mom. .

No link?

A New Dawn · May 25, 2015

smaneck said:
No link?

http://www.amazon.com/History-Joseph-Smith-His-Mother-ebook/dp/B0027FF150

mmksparbud · May 25, 2015

Thank you very much!!!

fatboys · May 25, 2015

mmksparbud said:
This does not answer the question that comes up when you think about what his mother said--That he was making up stories about the American Indians and their religion as if he had been there--all as a child before he ever had his visits from this Moroni. At a time he had not even started to read the bile yet. He didn't start reading the bible till he was 18. He was making up stories just to entertain family and friends.

why shouldn't she. She had no idea that what she was listening to were events told to him by those who lived at the time of the Book of Mormon.

mmksparbud · May 25, 2015

fatboys said:
why shouldn't she. She had no idea that what she was listening to were events told to him by those who lived at the time of the Book of Mormon.

He hadn't even had his first encounter with Moroni yet--that was much later, this was when he was much younger. He was making up these stories before he encountered this Moroni--even before he had read the bible, which wasn't until after he was 18.

A New Dawn · May 26, 2015

mmksparbud said:
He hadn't even had his first encounter with Moroni yet--that was much later, this was when he was much younger. He was making up these stories before he encountered this Moroni--even before he had read the bible, which wasn't until after he was 18.

No, he was younger than that. According to some of the first vision accounts, he was 15. Other accounts put it at different ages. The historical record, apart from the first vision accounts does put him at an older age.

mmksparbud · May 26, 2015

" Lucy Smith also noted that though he never read through the Bible until he was at least eighteen,

fatboys · May 26, 2015

mmksparbud said:
" Lucy Smith also noted that though he never read through the Bible until he was at least eighteen,

She was an old woman when she wrote this. I know hat if I write a biography that those that were there would not agree with time lines. If you don't write it down when it happens much is losti remember my oldest brother relating a story that had happened to both of us and I did know what he was taking about it was if he was tLikng about a whole different event. After I asked some questions I recognized what he was saying and then we sat an argued about really happened

fatboys · May 26, 2015

How old do you think he was he told these stories.

mmksparbud · May 26, 2015

Point is--he was making up these stories long before he ever met this Moroni.
I've done a lot of research on this--I was hoping for different results--however, I can't deny what I am feeling and that is that this is not of God at all. Sorry, we are free to believe what we want, and if Mormonism is what my stepdaughter wants, then so be it. I know there isn't anything that I can say that will change her mind. I will continue to pray for her and for truth to be seen by all concerned, including myself. There is no way in this world that I can ever believe that God was a man at any time . And I mean God, the Father, not Jesus. You may not list that as a doctrine, but it very much is a believe. After having had PMs from some Mormons here, and conversations with some that came to my home, I am of the opinion that most do not know what all the believes are. Some things are not set down right away and are glossed over until much later, and even then, they are not generally discussed. To some extent, that happens in most denominations, learning all the details can take some time and much depends on how much the individual wants to know and investigate on his own. The more I find out, the more I am opposed to this.

smaneck · May 26, 2015

mmksparbud said:
After having had PMs from some Mormons here, and conversations with some that came to my home, I am of the opinion that most do not know what all the believes are. Some things are not set down right away and are glossed over until much later, and even then, they are not generally discussed.

Did it occur to you that it might just be that not all Mormons agree on all these matters?

A New Dawn · May 26, 2015

smaneck said:
Did it occur to you that it might just be that not all Mormons agree on all these matters?

That might be true, but the LDS church falls with the Catholic Church in that way. There is an official position on most of their beliefs.

smaneck · May 26, 2015

A New Dawn said:
That might be true, but the LDS church falls with the Catholic Church in that way. There is an official position on most of their beliefs.

Yes, but if I'm not mistaken all the four canonical books contain all the official positions. You and others are drawing on non-canonical materials.

A New Dawn · May 26, 2015

smaneck said:
Yes, but if I'm not mistaken all the four canonical books contain all the official positions. You and others are drawing on non-canonical materials.

No, I deal only with canonical issues.

mmksparbud · May 26, 2015

According to your doctrines--the BOM is scripture also. Whatever is in it, is therefore doctrinal. And I do not believe that Moroni, if he was indeed real at all, (which I doubt highly), was sent by God. I do not believe anything in the BOM to be real. I tried--not happening, and I'm not reading the rest-- If JS did see this Moroni, the mistake he made was in believing him as he didn't not do as the bible instructed--and these have been quoted frequently--

(Gal 1:8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

(1Jn 4:1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

JS was either deceived, or he has done the deceiving--which I am more inclined to believe. But, that's just my opinion and
nobody really cares what I think except me!--Ya'all have fun now!

BigDaddy4 · May 26, 2015

fatboys said:
She was an old woman when she wrote this. I know hat if I write a biography that those that were there would not agree with time lines. If you don't write it down when it happens much is losti remember my oldest brother relating a story that had happened to both of us and I did know what he was taking about it was if he was tLikng about a whole different event. After I asked some questions I recognized what he was saying and then we sat an argued about really happened

IOW, everyone one is lying that has something to offer other than the whitewashed SLC version of events??

fatboys · May 26, 2015

mmksparbud said:
According to your doctrines--the BOM is scripture also. Whatever is in it, is therefore doctrinal. And I do not believe that Moroni, if he was indeed real at all, (which I doubt highly), was sent by God. I do not believe anything in the BOM to be real. I tried--not happening, and I'm not reading the rest-- If JS did see this Moroni, the mistake he made was in believing him as he didn't not do as the bible instructed--and these have been quoted frequently--

(Gal 1:8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

(1Jn 4:1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

JS was either deceived, or he has done the deceiving--which I am more inclined to believe. But, that's just my opinion and
nobody really cares what I think except me!--Ya'all have fun now!

That is up to you. I know these things are true. At one time I did not but I now know. I hope that you are not as negative with your stepdaughter as you are here. It will drive her away

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