After the Thousand Years (An Interpretation of Rev. 20:7-10)

Straightshot · May 25, 2015

"God is being realistic. God isn't going to say something about the afterlife that's not true. He would never say the rich man lifted up his head in the lake of fire if it wasn't possible. Your thinking is skewed."

No your's is .... it is a parable used for teaching the self righteous "Jews"

Berean777 · May 25, 2015

SON OF THE MORNING said:
That is not true.

Because the new testament is actually prophecy of the one who will interpret it. And they do not need the Bible AT ALL to walk the path of the one who understands.

More than just this; they do not need Revelation to pierce the layers of the veil.

Revelation is the end of the instruction. Not the key. The key is an internal intangible aspect of who they are. It can not be granted. The oversee'ers can merely 'get out of the way' of those they realise possess the key.

If the key were something to be granted; those who 'oversee' would never give it up.

They are like those who know the pin-number to anothers bank account; but don't have the bank card; CANT possess the bank card; and don't even know the persons name.

Please explain what you mean

The key is an internal intangible aspect of who they are.

WHO ARE THEY?

It can not be granted. The oversee'ers can merely 'get out of the way' of those they realise possess the key.

Who are the oversee'ers?

precepts · May 25, 2015

Straightshot said:
"God is being realistic. God isn't going to say something about the afterlife that's not true. He would never say the rich man lifted up his head in the lake of fire if it wasn't possible. Your thinking is skewed."

No your's is .... it is a parable used for teaching the self righteous "Jews"

Your thinking is slanted because you said no one can look up in the lake of fire even though God said the rich man did. In order for you to be right, and me wrong, you would imply God is saying something contrary to the fact.

If no one could lift up their head in the lake of fire, why would God say the rich man did?

Straightshot · May 25, 2015

Like I said .... it is a parable dude .... to get a message across to the self righteous pharisees

The Lord does this many times to the same for exposing them and their false teaching

Berean777 · May 25, 2015

BABerean2 said:
Rev_10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev_11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev_16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

These verses are found in different chapters.
However, they all occur at the same event, which is at the sounding of the 7th angel.

If you could throw off your manmade doctrine, it would be easy to see that they are all referring to the same event.

.

Yes this is the final event, the Lord has called it a day. The END!

jwmealy · May 26, 2015

iamlamad said:
I think what we see in chapter 14 is a symbolic picture given as prophecy, showing us only a picture of the future harvests.

I don't disagree. What puzzles me is why you see Rev. 19:11-21 as something other than "a symbolic picture given as prophecy, showing us only a picture of the future harvests" (i.e. a revelation, in the form of visual pictures, of the final salvation of the faithful and the destruction of the unrepentant of this age). No part of Revelation is "the real thing": it's all prophecy, all visionary experience.

jwmealy · May 26, 2015

precepts said:
Christ 2nd coming isn't in Rev 20:4 because Rev 20:4 happens in heaven, which is the reason why the rest of dead live not until after the 1,000 years.

Rev. 20:4 parallels Dan. 7, right? It reveals the same judgment. Or is it just a meaningless coincidence that the same context (the utter destruction of the "beast" by fire, and the setting up of "thrones", and the vindication of the holy ones formerly attacked by the "beast", and their reception of the kingdom "for the age") binds these two revelations from God together? If they do belong together, then the matter to be decided at the court is who is to be given resurrection and rule in the age of God's kingdom. Those of the first resurrection are vindicated in this trial, whereas the "rest of the dead" are condemned to remain unresurrected for that age. What's wrong with this reading? (BTW, this logic doesn't depend on whether the great courtroom scene of Rev. 20:4 is imagined to take place in heaven or on earth.)

Berean777 · May 26, 2015

I couldn't stop laughing when someone mentioned that Rev 14 is a symbolic picture of a future prophesy.

Look here this must be future prophesy:

Rev 14:6
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
(KJV)

This message was delivered AFTER the 144,000 (first fruits) were the first to be redeemed from amongst men.

A few people are saying that the preaching of the everlasting gospel is a 2000 years in the making future prophesy.

Sometimes I wonder when people will stop this worldly agenda and just believe what the scripture chronologically states.

Like:

Mat 27:52-53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
(KJV)

First fruits saints raised 2000 years ago after Christ was raised and then after they were raised the three angel messages proclaim the preaching of the everlasting gospel to the gentile nations of the world.

How on earth is this a future prophesy event.

precepts · May 26, 2015

Straightshot said:
Like I said .... it is a parable dude .... to get a message across the the self righteous pharisees

A parable is not fiction. It has to have an element of truth and fact, dude.

Straightshot said:
The Lord does this many times to the same for exposing them and their false teaching

You didn't answer my question. If no one can lift up their head in the lake of fire, why would God say the rich man did?

That alone proves you wrong, but you will never admit it, dude.

seekingsolace · May 26, 2015

precepts said:
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man proves the Rapture is a lie.

The parable says Lazarus was carried to Abraham's bosom while the rich man lifted up his head in hell, which is the lake of fire. What the parable doesn't say is that both men were buried and had to have been resurrected. The only place in Revelation that this could happen is at the 2nd resurrection, when all the good that have died after the start of the 1,000 yrs reign and all the unrighteous dead that have died up to that time are resurrected and judged (at the White Throne judgement). Some will enter the New Shalem thru the gates while the others will be thrown into the lake of fire, where the rich man ended up.

What proves the Rapture is a lie and that there is a 3rd resurrection is the fact the rich man asked for someone to go and warn his family, proving that after the 2nd resurrection there is still life on the earth, and that he wasn't on it. Christ kingdom is definitely not of this world/earth.

That was sheol, there's a difference.

precepts · May 26, 2015

jwmealy said:
Rev. 20:4 parallels Dan. 7, right? It reveals the same judgment.

None of them reveal a judgement of judging anyone for sin, which was my original point, your misunderstanding the judgement given to them as a judging for sin judgement. You said in your opening statement that the wicked were judged for their mortal sins in Rev 20:4 which is incorrect. Rev 20:4 is a resurrection for the righteous only. None of the verses contains the wicked being judged because the wicked are judged in the 2nd resurrection after the 1,000yrs reign.

jwmealy said:
Or is it just a meaningless coincidence that the same context (the utter destruction of the "beast" by fire, and the setting up of "thrones", and the vindication of the holy ones formerly attacked by the "beast", and their reception of the kingdom "for the age") binds these two revelations from God together? If they do belong together, then the matter to be decided at the court is who is to be given resurrection and rule in the age of God's kingdom.

Which is where you have erred. Both verses specifically state the events happen in heaven, and it's the 1st resurrection of only the just who are raised. Why can't you comprehend that? The rest of the dead lived not until after the 1,000yrs. It's the dead that are raised, given thrones and judgement, being the righteous.

jwmealy said:
Those of the first resurrection are vindicated in this trial, whereas the "rest of the dead" are condemned to remain unresurrected for that age.

There is no trial! The righteous are resurrected, and the wicked are not. The only trial is at the 2nd resurrection, at the Great White Throne Judgement. That's the only time the dead are raised and judged.

jwmealy said:
What's wrong with this reading? (BTW, this logic doesn't depend on whether the great courtroom scene of Rev. 20:4 is imagined to take place in heaven or on earth.)

There is no courtroom scene in Rev 20:4. All the risen are the righteous. There's no need for anyone to be judged because they are all righteous. THEY ARE GIVEN JUDGEMENT IN THE SENSE OF BEING GIVEN JUDGEMENT TO GOVERN AND RULE, NOT TO SEPARATE SHEEP FROM GOAT JUDGEMENT.

precepts · May 26, 2015

seekingsolace said:
That was sheol, there's a difference.

No, there's not. There is only one place sinners go to spend eternity, and it's the lake of fire which is also called Sheol or Hell.

seekingsolace · May 26, 2015

precepts said:
No, there's not. There is only one place sinners go to spend eternity, and it's the lake of fire which is also called Sheol or Hell.

I strongly suggest you read the Bible.

Revelation 20:13: The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

2 Peter 2:9: then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment

There is a difference between temporary and eternal.

iamlamad · May 26, 2015

Berean777 said:
Revelation 10:1-7
And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

What an Almighty Angel

Revelation 4:3-5
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

THE RAINBOW UPON HIS HEAD IS A GIVE AWAY.

This ALMIGHTY ANGEL SPEAKS AND THE SEVEN THUNDERS OF GOD ALSO SPEAK.

WHO IS THIS ALMIGHTY ANGEL?

The word of God.

THE SEVENTH ANGEL IS THE LIVING WORD OF GOD CHRIST JESUS

You highlighted the wrong part of this verse:

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein"

This angel is swearing by The God of creation (ever read John 1?), PROVING he is NOT the God of creation. Go back and read Rev. 19 again. THAT is His coming. He is not coming back until after the 70th week is finished. You who love to quote Matthew 24 should know this. Remember, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days"??? What are you going to do? Rearrange Revelation to fit? Move "the tribulation of those days" to before the 7th trumpet?Always remember, the vials are very much a part of "the tribulation of those days."

iamlamad · May 26, 2015

precepts said:
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man proves the Rapture is a lie.

The parable says Lazarus was carried to Abraham's bosom while the rich man lifted up his head in hell, which is the lake of fire. What the parable doesn't say is that both men were buried and had to have been resurrected. The only place in Revelation that this could happen is at the 2nd resurrection, when all the good that have died after the start of the 1,000 yrs reign and all the unrighteous dead that have died up to that time are resurrected and judged (at the White Throne judgement). Some will enter the New Shalem thru the gates while the others will be thrown into the lake of fire, where the rich man ended up.

What proves the Rapture is a lie and that there is a 3rd resurrection is the fact the rich man asked for someone to go and warn his family, proving that after the 2nd resurrection there is still life on the earth, and that he wasn't on it. Christ kingdom is definitely not of this world/earth.

Christianity's stumbling block is the fact that the "devil" that's thrown into the lake of fire isn't the "Devil" that deceived them. The "Devil" used the devil Gog to attack heaven, the same way he used the Beast and the false prophet. I have said this a million times.

The 3rd resurrection is the "wheat and tares" harvest into the barn or the fire. There's no throne judgement in the "wheat and tares" resurrection harvest.

What it does not say is "hell, which is the lake of fire." That is you forcing a false theory upon a text. No commentary will agree with this. No commentary will agree with you that this is after any resurrection. You are trying to rewrite the passage to fit your false theory.

iamlamad · May 26, 2015

precepts said:
God is being realistic. God isn't going to say something about the afterlife that's not true. He would never say the rich man lifted up his head in the lake of fire if it wasn't possible. Your thinking is skewed.

Not as skewed as your original post.

iamlamad · May 26, 2015

precepts said:
No, there's not. There is only one place sinners go to spend eternity, and it's the lake of fire which is also called Sheol or Hell.

Why don't you show us a verse proving your false theory" that "hell" and the "lake of fire" are one and the same.

BABerean2 · May 26, 2015

jwmealy said:
Rev. 20:4 parallels Dan. 7, right? It reveals the same judgment. Or is it just a meaningless coincidence that the same context (the utter destruction of the "beast" by fire, and the setting up of "thrones", and the vindication of the holy ones formerly attacked by the "beast", and their reception of the kingdom "for the age") binds these two revelations from God together? If they do belong together, then the matter to be decided at the court is who is to be given resurrection and rule in the age of God's kingdom. Those of the first resurrection are vindicated in this trial, whereas the "rest of the dead" are condemned to remain unresurrected for that age. What's wrong with this reading? (BTW, this logic doesn't depend on whether the great courtroom scene of Rev. 20:4 is imagined to take place in heaven or on earth.)

I wanted to get in here between the arguments for just a moment, to share all of the areas of agreement that I found in your paper.

Revelation chapter 6 is a picture of the Parousia

No mortals survive the Parousia

Heaven and Earth dissolved at Day of Judgment 2nd Peter chapter 3

7th Trumpet return of Christ

Christ returns in Flaming Fire

Judgment of ALL at the Parousia

The True Temple and the New Jerusalem are now in heaven

Wedding of the Bride in Rev. 19 at the Parousia

The Book of Revelation is Not in Chronological order, it shuttles back and forth

New Jerusalem comes down at the Parousia

I really appreciate you confirming the points above.
Please feel free to correct me if I am off in any of these points.
(I am speaking to jwmealy here, not the peanut gallery.)

iamlamad · May 26, 2015

BABerean2 said:
I wanted to get in here between the arguments for just a moment, to share all of the areas of agreement that I found in your paper.

Revelation chapter 6 is a picture of the Parousia NOT!

No mortals survive the Parousia WRONG!

Heaven and Earth dissolved at Day of Judgment 2nd Peter chapter 3 Peter says IN the Day of the Lord - so no specific day mentioned.

7th Trumpet return of Christ MYTH! NOT IN SCRIPTURE.

Christ returns in Flaming Fire

Judgment of ALL at the Parousia NOT! The Great white throne judgment comes at least a thousand years later.

The True Temple and the New Jerusalem are now in heaven

Wedding of the Bride in Rev. 19 at the Parousia NOT! WRONG! False doctrine. Not what is written. John makes it abundantly clear that the marriage comes BEFORE Jesus returns to earth.

The Book of Revelation is Not in Chronological order, it shuttles back and forth This is another part of your Revelation dream land. What are you going to say to John when he asks you why you insisted on rearranging his book?

New Jerusalem comes down at the Parousia WRONG! John shows us that the New Jerusalem does not come down until at least 1000 years AFTER Jesus coming with His resurrected saints.

Note: if you write error on this public forum, it will be corrected.

I really appreciate you confirming the points above.
Please feel free to correct me if I am off in any of these points.
(I am speaking to jwmealy here, not the peanut gallery.)

BABerean2 · May 26, 2015

I guess it was to much temptation for the "peanut gallery", even though it was addressed to jwmealy.

It was the "forbidden fruit".

He just had to bite into it, right Lamad.

After the Thousand Years (An Interpretation of Rev. 20:7-10)

Member

Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.

Newbie

Member

Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.

Newbie

Newbie

Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.

Newbie

Bah

Newbie

Newbie

Bah

Lamad

Lamad

Lamad

Lamad

Newbie

Lamad

Newbie

Similar threads