Can I be Christian and Not Believe the Bible?

Kirsten said:

The cross was always the plan from before time began.

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So says some sects of Christianity, but Jesus never taught any such nonsense.

Givemeareason said:

You make an interesting point in saying that Jesus believed in the old testament. What makes you say that considering our depiction of him starkly contrasts the old testament or at least it seems so to me. Goodnight or good morning whichever it is....

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Jesus knew there were errors in the OT books, therefore he chose from among the better content and allowed the rest to die on the vine.

Colter said:

So says some sects of Christianity, but Jesus never taught any such nonsense.

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Hi Colter. maybe you can refer me to Scripture that would indicate otherwise - in contradiction of i.e. Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Colter said:

Jesus knew there were errors in the OT books, therefore he chose from among the better content and allowed the rest to die on the vine.

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Hi Colter, which parts of the OT did Jesus seem to indicate had errors? Please quote Scripture.

Being a Christian and not believing the Bible--IMPOSSIBLE.

Faith comes from hearing the Word of God.

Either you believe what God says or you don't, it's that simple.

Givemeareason said:

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

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What then is the "message of Jesus"? You tend to mention the "Old Testament" as opposed to the "New Testament" but I submit that BOTH should be taken as reinforcing the other. Realize that the "New Testament" are those books assembled from the writings of various witnesses of Christ life who, at the Holy Spirit's direction, set and wrote that which was brought to their remembrance by God's Holy Spirit and in the case of Revelation Prophetic instructions/directions that was revealed to John also by God's Holy Spirit.

The Scriptures that Christ, Himself, and the disciples studied from and referenced in their daily dialog and lives were those of the Old Testament for there was no New Testament thus when Christ spoke of the message about His coming and documenting exactly who He was He did so from the Old Testament scriptures that was taught unto the people at those times. Also while those Scriptures and the Torah was read in the Synagogs, unto the Jews, Christ opened Salvation to the Gentiles and Paul speaks of this in Romans 11 however no where is there indications, from Christ, that Gentiles or New Testament Christians need to ignore the laws and instructions about Holy Living that are contained in the Old Testament Scriptures. We are to understand that we are saved through Grace, in Christ sacrifice and His shed blood and not by obedience to any laws or Scriptures. We are not saved by the law but it is by the Law, Laws of God, that we come to know how to please God and also know what displeases God. By living to please God and confessing our sins it keeps our relationship with God pure and close and does not grieve the Holy Spirit which is our proof of our Salvation and God's living Minister that is contained and alive within our own bodies alongside our own living spirits.

So realize that the Old Testament is by no means voided but rather realize that those scriptures are the ones Christ taught from Himself. The New Testament are writings that document this as well as reveals unto us the Teachings of Christ either directly, in the Gospels, or second hand through the writings of those who set under Christ, heard and observed Christ teachings and reinforced or repeated them to the various Churches that they wrote to or in their letters that they wrote.

Our "modern Bibles' are made up of the Words of God and are a living manual for humanity given to us by God Himself through he inspiration of God's Holy Spirit. God's Holy Spirit, for the Christian, can also reveal and confirm the truth of God and what God has for each individual through these same Scriptures, Both Old and New Testaments and because both Testaments are inspired by God then both are just as valid today as the day they were written. True there are some parts/sections that are specifically written to and for the Jews but we also can learn from them. The Sabbath Laws are a covenant between God and Israel (the Jews) and while Gentile Christians are not bound by that covenant we are still blessed by God's teachings and can learn from those teachings. We aren't under the dietary laws but that doesn't mean that we can't be better off to observe what God taught to His People and we can benefit from it ourselves although not held to it. Where there are debatable things we, as loving Christians, need to keep in mind and observe Romans 14 and allow it to guide our lives. God is revealed unto us through the entire book that we have. Old Testament believers and early Church believers didn't have the written Bible as we have it and Old Testament Believers didn't have God's Holy Spirit within them to reveal unto them God's Truth and be a living minister unto them.

Please do not rule out the Old Testament because you believe somehow Christ said we are not under the Law. The Law doesn't save us but we, as Christians, live to please God and to keep a close and pure relationship with God and by not living a life of sin and learning what right and just living pleases God allows us to know and learn how to please God and keep our Relationship unclouded and intimate between the individual believer and God (God's Holy Spirit).

wilts43 said:

The Christian (Catholic) Church existed for nearly 400 years without "The Bible".
It did refer constantly to various writings during this time, but a selection of which books were to be crucial & authentic for this faith community (& which rejected) was made at the Councils (of Catholic bishops) of Carthage in 397 & 419.

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It was decided before that, actually.

wilts43 said:

The overweening emphasis on “The Bible” is a Protestant invention of the Middle Ages. Such a religion is only possible after the invention of printing and potential mass literacy.

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Nonsense.

"...we are not entitled to such license, namely, of affirming whatever we please. For we make Sacred Scripture the rule and the norm of every doctrine. Upon that we are obliged to fix our eyes, and we approve only whatever can be brought into harmony with the intent of these writings." -- St. Gregory of Nyssa (330-395)

Do the ten commandments apply? You tell me you read the New Testament? Jesus said of the two commandments you quoted as the most important, "On these two hinge the whole law."

In other words if you truly kept these you would automatically be keeping all the others. Of course they apply.

You don't get rid of the truth of creation by dismissing the Old Testament because its in the New as well.

Stop the silly semantics and realise the Bible's revelation. Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God. That is he is the only son born to God through the womb of a woman. All other children of God are children by creation or by being born of the Spirit: born again.

The Old Testament is as much God's word as the New and is the revelation of Jesus Christ; born of Mary, and called Jesus of Nazareth. Yet he was always God's plan as depicted through the animal sacrifices.

You say you love Jesus but do you believe in him? Do you believe he is the only begotten Son of God, the sacrifice for sin, and the hope of eternal life? The New Testament does not say those who love Jesus will be saved, but those who believe in him.

Legalism is not believing and obeying the truth as is erroneously depicted today, it is creating your own rules by misquoting God's word.

Fromgenesis said:

Hi Colter. maybe you can refer me to Scripture that would indicate otherwise - in contradiction of i.e. Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

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That is the opinion of the apocalyptic writer of the dark Book of Revelation trying to explain the tragedy of the rejection of the original gospel of Jesus wherein God was already forgiving and salvation was by faith. Christianity was contaminated by the old Pagan beliefs that God can't forgive without a scapegoat.

Colter said:

So says some sects of Christianity, but Jesus never taught any such nonsense.

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Yes, He did, and it isn't nonsense. To pick just one passage:

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (John 3:14-18)

Colter said:

That is the opinion of the apocalyptic writer of the dark Book of Revelation trying to explain the tragedy of the rejection of the original gospel of Jesus wherein God was already forgiving and salvation was by faith.

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You don't seem to accept Christian Scriptures and you don't seem to accept Christian doctrine. In what sense are you a "Christian Seeker"? Christian Forums policy is that that label should only be used by Nicene Christians.

Fromgenesis said:

Hi Colter, which parts of the OT did Jesus seem to indicate had errors? Please quote Scripture.

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Jesus quoted some of the spiritual truths from the OT but he also warned not to put the new wine into the old wine skins or sew the new cloth onto the old. When he did quote he used the positive half of those quotes.

The nature and character of the Father revealed in the life of Jesus was in stark contrast to the Old Testament concepts of God which were really fastened in the image of the men of that age. When the OT books were compiled and redacted in Babylon the Hebrew priest wrote their secular history as having been directed by God, unseemly things such as genocide and child rape etc.

Architeuthus said:

You don't seem to accept Christian Scriptures and you don't seem to accept Christian doctrine. In what sense are you a "Christian Seeker"? Christian Forums policy is that that label should only be used by Nicene Christians.

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In the sense that I believe Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ. I have no conflict with the Nicene creed.

Givemeareason said:

...my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before.

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You're off to a promising start with this but to understand Him more you'll need to understand the Bible more (as well as live a life of holiness and trust in Him).

The Bible is a huge collections of books (66 in all) - they all have a time and place, context and meaning but the simple MAJOR division is that of 'Old' and 'New' Covenants (or, 'Testaments'). Shortly AFTER Jesus died and rose again He sent the Holy Spirit to live in the hearts of those who put their trust in Him - thus marking a 'New' Covenant. Things worked differently prior to that under the 'Old' Covenant.

I hadn't thought much about the Bible prior to my conversion to Jesus - but very soon after I became aware (without a single doubt) that The Bible is The Book God has inspired (spoken through) and I began reading it. I'd recommend that you start by reading the New Testament then read the Old Testament after that.

An overview series would help you tremendously - I'd recommend this one:

Unlocking The Bible by David Pawson

• Don't worry about things you don't understand.
• Don't worry about the fact that there are differing views about interpreting some subjects in The Bible.
• Just get a good, basic overview for now then you can make your own study of difficult subjects later on.

Happy learning!

I'll be brief ... A person may be a 'christian' and not believe in the Bible. But note the lower case ("c") and the single quotes ('c'). What that means is that this would be an ad hoc form of 'christianity', not any orthodox, recognized form. In other words, that would NOT be Christianity. One example: there are those that consider themselves 'christians' but do not believe in the virgin birth or in the bodily resurrection of Christ or in the many miracles performed by Christ and His disciples or in other things described in Scripture. Fine, these people may call themselves "Christians" but what they've actually done is created a special pseudo-Christian sect, aka a cult, with non-Christian beliefs. In short, Christ and His Word come as a complete package - you can't have one without the other. Any attempt to separate Christ from His Word is a man-made perversion aimed at creating Christianity into what we want it to be. That doesn't get to first base with God - don't be fooled into believing otherwise.

Architeuthus said:

Yes, He did, and it isn't nonsense. To pick just one passage:

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (John 3:14-18)

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None of that has Jesus as a human sacrifice. Killing Jesus was an atrocity! A sin of sins! I believe in his original gospel, I focus on his life not his death.

Jennae said:

Since the bible is Gods holy word and gives us a way to get to know him personally, how can you live your life as a Christian if you don't believe the bible. How would you know you are a Christian?

Scripture teaches that the moment we turn from sin and trust in Jesus to be forgiven of sin, we are saved (Acts 2:37-41). Therefore we have passed from spiritual death to spiritual life (John 5:24) and has been declared not guilty in God's court of law (Rom 3:21-26). From God's perspective, our salvation is an objective reality that cannot be changed (Rom 8:28-30).

If you don't believe in scripture, how will you know you are a follower of Jesus.
What exactly does it mean to you to be a Christian?
Do you Wish to spend eternity in heaven with Jesus? Or do you just want to learn about him on earth as a historical person you admire.
To be a Christian requires a decision.
I just don't see how you can be a believer in Christ yet not believe the bible. The bible is the book that tells about the life, death, resurrection, ascension of Christ. It tells us how we can have eternal life so that we can be with Jesus one day. It tells us how to fulfill the great commission and lead others to Christ as well.
What does it mean to be a Christian to you without scripture?

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That is NOT what Jesus said.
Mathew 25:31-46.The Sermon on the Mount.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...ymMVRj6eFjwoKhA&bvm=bv.93990622,d.dGc&cad=rja

Colter said:

None of that has Jesus as a human sacrifice. Killing Jesus was an atrocity! A sin of sins! I believe in his original gospel, I focus on his life not his death.

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Christ's original gospel? I know of no other than he came to die for the sins of the world. He said so himself. The death of Jesus was a necessity.

Givemeareason said:

So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to.

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Where does he say that the old laws are still in effect?

Givemeareason said:

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian.

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How did you decide this? I ask this because my own faith was a gift from God through the Holy Spirit.

Givemeareason said:

And I agree. Christians are also more than just Christians also.

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Would you mind sharing what renewed your interest in Jesus?