WOF teachings?

BFine said:

Reminds me of the other Christian forum I use to belong to before they
closed their doors... that type of behavior lead to many Christians who
tried to uphold biblical standards to leave that site.
I wasn't surprised when I found out a little while later, that site was no
longer in existence.

I know of one Christian site that's pretty exclusive... you can't just go
join it, another Christian member of that site recommends you, then the
site mod(s) gets in contact with you and find out where you attend church,
how long you have been a Christian, etc. if your info is correct, then you
will be approved for membership.

Click to expand...

I belong to a site like that. I belong to PuritanBoard, too, which has a probation period, although I haven't posted there in months.

covetousness is like a stick with two ends; on one end is selfish excess, on the other end is abject poverty; it's not how much or how little you have that makes you covetous; covetousness is reflected by a focus on money. a person who does not consider themselves to be rich, and focuses on criticizing the rich because of how much money they have, is covetous.

no person in a flesh body is qualified to judge another person, and accusation is the cry of the devil...don't help him

ok.
Im not begrudging people of their earthly riches here.
But..often the ones that are earthly rich actually are putting those who are not down. It comes across in their manner and it's not cool. It's like - well you obviously have no faith then. Um no.

The riches Jesus speaks of moths cannot eat or destroy. So..it seems to me they have a different gospel...and argue in a way that is like what you are arguing.

The thing is, we can learn to be content whether we are exalted or not. Our identity is in Christ not our earthly circumstances. But it seems people still want to make it out that money is King in their lives and all christians ought to be rolling in it.

Well said....and to add.

There are so many passages in scriptures by JESUS CHRIST the son of GOD that define that we are to live poor in order to help those in need. We labor and toil so others can also be provided for, and this includes the clergy whom work hard to profess the genuine and true faith through JESUS the son of GOD.
"Isn't the very word of poor the opposite of wealthy?" So if we sell all our possessions and give to the poor the richness that abounds with us in return is LOVE and that is the WORKS that the faith in JESUS CHRIST is talking about; wouldn't you assume?

It is also stated that....

“No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money. “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. (NIV, Matthew 6:24-25, 31-33)


Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

sunshine456 said:

ok.
Im not begrudging people of their earthly riches here.
But..often the ones that are earthly rich actually are putting those who are not down. It comes across in their manner and it's not cool. It's like - well you obviously have no faith then. Um no.

The riches Jesus speaks of moths cannot eat or destroy. So..it seems to me they have a different gospel...and argue in a way that is like what you are arguing.

The thing is, we can learn to be content whether we are exalted or not. Our identity is in Christ not our earthly circumstances. But it seems people still want to make it out that money is King in their lives and all christians ought to be rolling in it.

Well said....and to add.

There are so many passages in scriptures by JESUS CHRIST the son of GOD that define that we are to live poor in order to help those in need. We labor and toil so others can also be provided for, and this includes the clergy whom work hard to profess the genuine and true faith through JESUS the son of GOD.
"Isn't the very word of poor the opposite of wealthy?" So if we sell all our possessions and give to the poor the richness that abounds with us in return is LOVE and that is the WORKS that the faith in JESUS CHRIST is talking about; wouldn't you assume?

It is also stated that....

“No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money. “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. (NIV, Matthew 6:24-25, 31-33)


Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Click to expand...

could you please name a few of those scriptures from Jesus that define that we are to live poor in order to help those in need?

Goodbook said:

Jesus became poor for our sakes.
If you have two coats..give one away.
Dont take any money with you when you go out witnessing.
Blessed are the poor.
Sell all your possesions, give to the poor, then follow me.
Do not store up your treasures on earth that moths can destroy or others can steal, store your treasures up in heaven.
It is more blessed to give than to receive.


Just off the top of my head. Sunshine456 prolly got more.

Click to expand...

i think i know what scriptures you're referring to:

2Co 8:9 KJV
(9) For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

this is more clear in a different translation:

2Co 8:9 GW
(9) You know about the kindness of our Lord Jesus Christ. He was rich, yet for your sake he became poor in order to make you rich through his poverty.

so this is saying that Jesus wants us to be wealthy! not poor! that should be GREAT news!!!

Mat 5:38-42 KJV
(38) Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
(39) But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
(40) And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
(41) And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
(42) Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

here Jesus is saying that if a man sues you for your coat, give it to him and give him your cloke too - how will you be able to do that the second time it comes up if you aren't prosperous enough to get another coat and cloke? and look at what He says in verse 42 - how are you going to obey Him to give to those who ask and borrow if you aren't prosperous?

Luk 10:1-7 KJV
(1) After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
(2) Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
(3) Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
(4) Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
(5) And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
(6) And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
(7) And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

look at verse 1 above; Jesus picked 70 people to go to every city and place where He would go while he was on the earth, and His instructions to not carry a purse was to them, not everyone. but even so, look at what the Master said in verse 7 - 'the laborer is worthy of his hire' - God isn't a cheapscate; He PROVIDES for His messengers - but they must receive what He provides by faith

Mat 5:3 KJV
(3) Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

another translation of the same verse:

Mat 5:3 GW
(3) "Blessed are those who recognize they are spiritually helpless. The kingdom of heaven belongs to them.

Jesus is not saying that those who have no money are blessed, but rather those who do not seek to justify themselves before God are blessed - this is not about money

Mar 10:17-31 KJV
(17) And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
(18) And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
(19) Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
(20) And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
(21) Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
(22) And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
(23) And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
(24) And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
(25) It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
(26) And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
(27) And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
(28) Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
(29) And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
(30) But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
(31) But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

Jesus was speaking to someone specific here, not everyone - but look at the WHOLE of what Jesus said to this man:

go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me...
There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, but he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Jesus is saying that anyone who gives up houses and lands (as well as family) will not be poor for the rest of their lives, but will receive a hundredfold more houses and lands now in this life!!! that's prosperity!!!

Mat 6:19-21 KJV
(19) Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
(20) But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
(21) For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Here Jesus is talking about what you love, not what you have - He's saying don't LOVE money, He's not saying don't HAVE money

Act 20:35 KJV
(35) I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

how will you follow this command to support the weak and give -- if you are poor?

no - if you read the scriptures in context and pay attention to the subject, who is speaking and who is being spoken to, you'll see for yourself that God wants us to be PROSPEROUS:

Psa 35:27 KJV
(27) Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

DiscipleHeLovesToo said:

covetousness is like a stick with two ends; on one end is selfish excess, on the other end is abject poverty; it's not how much or how little you have that makes you covetous; covetousness is reflected by a focus on money. a person who does not consider themselves to be rich, and focuses on criticizing the rich because of how much money they have, is covetous.

no person in a flesh body is qualified to judge another person, and accusation is the cry of the devil...don't help him

Click to expand...

"But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep. Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets." - Luke 6:24-26

-CryptoLutheran

DiscipleHeLovesToo said:

i think i know what scriptures you're referring to:

2Co 8:9 KJV
(9) For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

this is more clear in a different translation:

2Co 8:9 GW
(9) You know about the kindness of our Lord Jesus Christ. He was rich, yet for your sake he became poor in order to make you rich through his poverty.

so this is saying that Jesus wants us to be wealthy! not poor! that should be GREAT news!!!

Click to expand...

We are rich because we have received the riches of God's mercy through the death and resurrection of His Son for our very salvation. That is why we are rich in Christ.

To suggest this passage means "Jesus wants us to be wealthy" is the very definition of bad interpretation.

Mat 5:38-42 KJV
(38) Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
(39) But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
(40) And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
(41) And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
(42) Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

here Jesus is saying that if a man sues you for your coat, give it to him and give him your cloke too - how will you be able to do that the second time it comes up if you aren't prosperous enough to get another coat and cloke? and look at what He says in verse 42 - how are you going to obey Him to give to those who ask and borrow if you aren't prosperous?

Click to expand...

Seriously? No, really, seriously?

"And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. So He said, 'Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.'" - Luke 21:1-4

So much for needing to be prosperous in order to be faithful to Christ's commandment eh?

Luk 10:1-7 KJV
(1) After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
(2) Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
(3) Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
(4) Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
(5) And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
(6) And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
(7) And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

look at verse 1 above; Jesus picked 70 people to go to every city and place where He would go while he was on the earth, and His instructions to not carry a purse was to them, not everyone. but even so, look at what the Master said in verse 7 - 'the laborer is worthy of his hire' - God isn't a cheapscate; He PROVIDES for His messengers - but they must receive what He provides by faith

Click to expand...

The 70 were commanded to rely on the goodwill of those they came to. That's pretty obvious from the very verse you highlight.

Mat 5:3 KJV
(3) Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

another translation of the same verse:

Mat 5:3 GW
(3) "Blessed are those who recognize they are spiritually helpless. The kingdom of heaven belongs to them.

Jesus is not saying that those who have no money are blessed, but rather those who do not seek to justify themselves before God are blessed - this is not about money

Click to expand...

"Blessed are you poor, For yours is the kingdom of God." - Luke 6:20

Mar 10:17-31 KJV
(17) And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
(18) And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
(19) Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
(20) And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
(21) Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
(22) And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
(23) And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
(24) And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
(25) It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
(26) And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
(27) And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
(28) Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
(29) And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
(30) But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
(31) But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

Jesus was speaking to someone specific here, not everyone - but look at the WHOLE of what Jesus said to this man:

go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me...
There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, but he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Jesus is saying that anyone who gives up houses and lands (as well as family) will not be poor for the rest of their lives, but will receive a hundredfold more houses and lands now in this life!!! that's prosperity!!!

Click to expand...

Yes, those who have given up everything have, in the Church, received a hundredfold in becoming the children and heirs of God in Christ. Not material wealth, but spiritual wealth in the mercy of God.

Mat 6:19-21 KJV
(19) Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
(20) But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
(21) For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Here Jesus is talking about what you love, not what you have - He's saying don't LOVE money, He's not saying don't HAVE money

Act 20:35 KJV
(35) I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

how will you follow this command to support the weak and give -- if you are poor?

no - if you read the scriptures in context and pay attention to the subject, who is speaking and who is being spoken to, you'll see for yourself that God wants us to be PROSPEROUS:

Psa 35:27 KJV
(27) Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

Click to expand...

You've done a very good job quoting the Prosperity Gospel handbook. Problematic, however, is that Scripture and two thousand years of Christian teaching completely disagrees.

If you wanted to just make a point that it is possible to be rich and be a Christian, then you'll find most will agree. There's nothing wrong with having stuff.

What's wrong is making stuff the object of faith. What's wrong is making false promises that believing in Jesus will make people happy, wealthy, and well. That's the problem.

Jesus does not promise us a wealthy, healthy, prosperous life. On the contrary, He has promised us a life of difficulty, a life defined by the Cross, a life of humility and suffering for His sake. We have been called to be cross-carriers, all of us, great, small, rich, poor, free, slave. And it is in trial and tribulation, in suffering, in carrying a cross that we rejoice in the Lord.

-CryptoLutheran

Goodbook said:

The annoying thing is finding many christians taken in by it.

I think its to do with the televangelists. Mostly from america.

Click to expand...

Hey, this is the land of opportunity. Don't knock it. :-D

ViaCrucis said:

Seriously? No, really, seriously?

Click to expand...

You'll notice that a good hunk of the Church of America (and probably other places, too) link much of Scripture to a literal interpretation. However, the usual meaning of literal is itself mentally interpreted to mean physical, rather than spiritual. That doesn't preclude some physical effects from the spiritual changes (if your spiritual changes happened to make you more employable, who do we blame the extra income on?) but that is certainly a side-show, not the main attraction.

This group just dribbles the ball a bit further down that court. Too bad the goal is the wrong one...

Goodbook said:

faith is a FORCE.

Click to expand...