Why do people believe in a Rapture?

Bro.T · May 25, 2015

Lets take a look in (Matthew 24:40-44) "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this that if the Goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

This is one of the places in the Bible people use to support the teaching of a Rapture. If such an event is to take place, why doesn't the word Rapture appear in the Bible? People have accepted this myth for a very long time. Also, the religious teachers have perpetuated this myth for just as long. Why do I refer to the Rapture as being a myth? This is good question, and we will answer that question in the following paragraphs.

All of the Prophets, even David, a man after the Lords' own heart does not speak of rapture, but instead discusses the wilderness (the place of safety during the Great Tribulation), which is right here on the earth. Exactly what does Rapture mean anyway? ("Ecstasy, Intense Spiritual or Emotional Ecstasy") Webster's Dictionary

This doesn't sound anything like what the preachers preach in the churches. What does ecstasy have to do with going to heaven? Yet still, people say that they're going to be raptured off to heaven before the Great Tribulation. And they use scriptures such as (St. Matthew 24: 40-42) "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." To support their claim, if you go back and start reading this same scripture at the 15th verse and continue down to the 31st verse, skip down to the 36th verse and continue down to the 42nd verse, you will see that this happens after the tribulation and there is no mention of going to heaven said here. Jesus said with his own mouth (St. John 3:13) " And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Also, (St. John 7: 33-34) " Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither: ye cannot come." Another scripture they use is (St. John 14:1-3) " Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." Why do they, when using this scripture, always leave out the part, or ignore, that Jesus said,” I will come again"? Come again to the earth to receive you to myself.

James Is Back · May 25, 2015

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Thread moved from General Theology to Eschatology

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yeshuasavedme · May 25, 2015

tanzel said:
All of the Prophets, even David, a man after the Lords' own heart does not speak of rapture,.../QUOTE]
Actually, the word rapture is Latin for "Caught up".
The Hebrew is transliterated as "laqach", for one, and David most certainly did write of it, prophetically, in Psalm 75:2,3, in the Hebrew.

To "laqach" is to take [to remove from one place to another], to go get, to fetch, to marry....
Jesus will come get us and take us to Himself, to be where He is, and that is our graduation to glory day, when we are the "bride of Christ" in our flesh, as surely as Eve was the bride of Adam, when she was "built " as the female Adam with the same flesh, bone, blood and Adam nature spirit, for the Scriptures do teach us that all the Adam creation are one spirit, one bone, one blood, and one flesh, and made male and female...

When we are taken up and our Redeemer/Kinsman and LORD receives us unto Himself, to be with Him where He is, then we are also in the regenerated flesh of the New Man, and are forever one spirit, one flesh, one bone and one blood, a fit bride, adopted out of Adam and into the One Living Spirit, Christ.
But as to why: that is the whole point of redemption, to be cleansed in soul, regenerated/adopted in Spirit, and regenerated/adopted in flesh of new creation.

It is to be made clean to have access to the presence of the Glory in heaven, from which heaven and the presence of Glory Adam was cast out/divorced, and died, in spirit, first, and flesh, second.
Adam was in Eden, ruling over earth and free coming and going, and Mount Eden is in the third heaven, above, and Adam was cast down to the earth below and forbidden access into Paradise in his defiled garments,;which garments are the body of flesh.
The flesh body made of clay is not possible to cleanse, and must be dissolved and regenerated once it is defiled and made unclean. That is the lesson of the Torah, in the Teaching of redemption, and going into the presence of the Glory in the New Man garments, all washed and made clean.
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...day-and-israels-time-for-restoration.7879917/

dougangel · May 25, 2015

tanzel said:
This is one of the places in the Bible people use to support the teaching of a Rapture. If such an event is to take place, why doesn't the word Rapture appear in the Bible? People have accepted this myth for a very long time. Also, the religious teachers have perpetuated this myth for just as long. Why do I refer to the Rapture as being a myth? This is good question, and we will answer that question in the following paragraphs.

The word rapture is just Latin for when it points out in scripture, Taken up, caught up, taken in context of Christ's return. There is no problem using it as a phrase for that context.

MoreCoffee · May 25, 2015

Q: Why do people believe in a Rapture?
A: because those people would like to believe that God will save them from tribulations and trials that may be more severe than the day to day trials that they face now. It is part of the fear that people feel about physical and mental suffering. It is part of having difficulty in believing that one must take up his cross and follow Jesus even when it may lead to suffering. It is also part of not knowing why suffering has a role in living a faithful life in communion with Jesus Christ.

Bro.T · May 25, 2015

dougangel said:
The word rapture is just Latin for when it points out in scripture, Taken up, caught up, taken in context of Christ's return. There is no problem using it as a phrase for that context.

Not sure what dictionary you using, but this is Google

rap·ture
ˈrapCHər/Submit
noun
1.
a feeling of intense pleasure or joy.
"Leonora listened with rapture"
synonyms: ecstasy, bliss, exaltation, euphoria, elation, joy, enchantment, delight, happiness, pleasure
"she gazed at him in rapture"
2.
NORTH AMERICAN
(according to some millenarian teaching) the transporting of believers to heaven at the Second Coming of Christ.
verbNORTH AMERICAN
1.
(according to some millenarian teaching) transport (a believer) from earth to heaven at the Second Coming of Christ.

Bro.T · May 25, 2015

MoreCoffee said:
Q: Why do people believe in a Rapture?
A: because those people would like to believe that God will save them from tribulations and trials that may be more severe than the day to day trials that they face now. It is part of the fear that people feel about physical and mental suffering. It is part of having difficulty in believing that one must take up his cross and follow Jesus even when it may lead to suffering. It is also part of not knowing why suffering has a role in living a faithful life in communion with Jesus Christ.

Very interesting what you are saying and it makes a lot of sense. Now if thats the case then people have a problem with the word of God. Paul made a good in in Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. Maybe people read right past these type of verses.

Bro.T · May 25, 2015

So where are going to be taken up at?

yeshuasavedme · May 25, 2015

tanzel said:
So where are going to be taken up at?

We will be taken [laqach] from earth below to heaven above, to the third heaven, to Mount Eden, to Paradise, right back to where Adam was set, and to where Adam was cast down to earth from. That is what the redemption of us is for, to be adopted by the Firstborn of the New Creation, and as His sons, to rule and reign with Him over the earth which He ransomed by his blood and will take His power unto Himself and reign over, forever and forever.
Adam was in Eden, ruling over earth and free coming and going, and Mount Eden is in the third heaven, above, and Adam was cast down to the earth below and forbidden access into Paradise in his defiled garments,;which garments are the body of flesh.
The flesh body made of clay is not possible to cleanse, and must be dissolved and regenerated once it is defiled and made unclean. That is the lesson of the Torah, in the Teaching of redemption, and going into the presence of the Glory in the New Man garments, all washed and made clean.
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...day-and-israels-time-for-restoration.7879917/

yeshuasavedme · May 25, 2015

Psalm 50 speaks of the gathering together unto the LORD of His saints before the punishment of the inhabitants of the earth, by the tribulation, will begin.
Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty,
God will shine forth.
Our God shall come, and shall not keep silent;
A fire shall devour before Him,
And it shall be very tempestuous all around Him.
He shall call to the heavens from above,
And to the earth, that He may judge His people:
“Gather My saints together to Me,
Those who have made a covenant with Me by sacrifice.”

Let the heavens declare His righteousness,
For God Himself is Judge. Selah

dougangel · May 26, 2015

tanzel said:
2.
NORTH AMERICAN
(according to some millenarian teaching) the transporting of believers to heaven at the Second Coming of Christ.
verbNORTH AMERICAN

What the ?
Don't you think "taken up in the context of Christ's return" is close to 2 ???????????

dougangel · May 26, 2015

tanzel said:
So where are going to be taken up at?

Matthew 24:
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Gnarwhal · May 26, 2015

People believe in a rapture because:

1. It's titillating despite it's error.
2. It's easy to browbeat others with it.
3. It allows people to shirk any sense of responsibility to God's creation.
4. People love to draw lines in the sand between themselves and others; always conveniently placing themselves on the "right" side.

SharonL · May 26, 2015

dougangel said:
Matthew 24:
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

You are correct. When Jesus returns He will set His feet down where He left from. When the Bible speaks of Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven - that is the Rapture. Gathering all his elect from the four corners of the earth. We will be judged, not for our sins, but for what we have done for the Kingdom and will return with Jesus at His second coming.

MoreCoffee · May 26, 2015

SharonL said:
You are correct. When Jesus returns He will set His feet down where He left from. When the Bible speaks of Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven - that is the Rapture. Gathering all his elect from the four corners of the earth. We will be judged, not for our sins, but for what we have done for the Kingdom and will return with Jesus at His second coming.

I don't see any mention of the Lord's feet in that passage (Matthew 24:30,31) nor any mention of a specific place where the second coming will happen. In the Apocalypse of saint John the theologian is it said "Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him." and that does not seem like a second coming in a specific place.

yeshuasavedme · May 26, 2015

So many things are to happen, according to the Word, in "That Day" which is the seven years of Daniel's last week that they all cannot happen in one 24 hour time period, but they all happen in "That Day".

His feet do split the Mount.
He comes with clouds.
He will be seen over Jerusalem, defending her.
He will come riding on the white horse, wearing the crown on which is written the "Name which no man knows but He, Himself" [YHWH is that Name].

Rev 19
Christ on a White Horse

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[e] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[f] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[g] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
The Beast and His Armies Defeated

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[h] 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

yeshuasavedme · May 26, 2015

Zechariah 14:
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.[a]

6
It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7
It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.

8
And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
9
And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.

10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem[c] shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin’s Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.

11
The people shall dwell in it;
And no longer shall there be utter destruction,
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:

Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

13
It shall come to pass in that day
That a great panic from the Lord will be among them.
Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor,
And raise his hand against his neighbor’s hand;
14
Judah also will fight at Jerusalem.
And the wealth of all the surrounding nations
Shall be gathered together:
Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.

15
Such also shall be the plague
On the horse and the mule,
On the camel and the donkey,
And on all the cattle that will be in those camps.
So shall this plague be.

BABerean2 · May 26, 2015

An analogy...

The mother and daughter sat on the front porch of their house shelling peas from their garden. Both worked quietly. There had been great sadness in the home for several weeks. It all started when their pastor came to the door with the tragic news that the husband and the father had been killed at Gettysburg. She knew her husband had fought for years in this great war that had torn the nation in half. Although it should not have been a total surprise she found herself screaming, No..., No..., No...., for what seemed like hours and then days.

The pastor had told her the husband was buried at the site of the battle and it would not be possible to visit the grave at the present time.

After several days and the comfort brought to her by her neighbors and family she had tried to resume the chores required to keep her family going.

She had spent many hours in prayer and tears since that tragic day.

Their home was located along the road that led into town. At times during the dry times of summer the dust from the dirt road covered the front porch.

The peas which came from their own garden were a tremendous blessing. They were planning to cook them for supper that night.

As the woman and her daughter worked quietly, the silence was broken when the woman said...

"Honey, that man coming here walks like your daddy."

The girl never looked up, as she thought about the man she loved so much, that was now dead.

A few minutes later the woman said...

"Honey, that man coming down the road, looks like your daddy."

The girl looked up from the pot of peas and strained her eyes toward the road.

Another couple of minutes went by and her mother screamed...

That man is your daddy!

(Mistakes had been made in the identification of some dead soldiers.)

Now do you think the woman and the girl just sat on that porch and waited for the one they loved to walk up to their house?

or...

Do you think the bond of love between them made them rush toward their loved one?

And so it shall be when He returns.

When the One who bought us with His Blood returns, we will be changed in such a way that the force of gravity will not be able to keep us from going to Him and accompanying Him back to earth.

The Greek word is "Parousia"

I hope to see you there, Brothers and Sisters.

.

Interplanner · May 26, 2015

tanzel said:
Lets take a look in (Matthew 24:40-44) "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this that if the Goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

This is one of the places in the Bible people use to support the teaching of a Rapture. If such an event is to take place, why doesn't the word Rapture appear in the Bible? People have accepted this myth for a very long time. Also, the religious teachers have perpetuated this myth for just as long. Why do I refer to the Rapture as being a myth? This is good question, and we will answer that question in the following paragraphs.

All of the Prophets, even David, a man after the Lords' own heart does not speak of rapture, but instead discusses the wilderness (the place of safety during the Great Tribulation), which is right here on the earth. Exactly what does Rapture mean anyway? ("Ecstasy, Intense Spiritual or Emotional Ecstasy") Webster's Dictionary

This doesn't sound anything like what the preachers preach in the churches. What does ecstasy have to do with going to heaven? Yet still, people say that they're going to be raptured off to heaven before the Great Tribulation. And they use scriptures such as (St. Matthew 24: 40-42) "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." To support their claim, if you go back and start reading this same scripture at the 15th verse and continue down to the 31st verse, skip down to the 36th verse and continue down to the 42nd verse, you will see that this happens after the tribulation and there is no mention of going to heaven said here. Jesus said with his own mouth (St. John 3:13) " And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Also, (St. John 7: 33-34) " Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither: ye cannot come." Another scripture they use is (St. John 14:1-3) " Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." Why do they, when using this scripture, always leave out the part, or ignore, that Jesus said,” I will come again"? Come again to the earth to receive you to myself.

One of the reasons for promoting the rapture in the late 20th century was the more irrational intellectual atmosphere of neo-orthodox liberal theology. But at the same time, many thought to be Bible-based were doing some things that were like the neos. In the case of the rapture, Trinity Broadcasting could not have launched without leveraging Lindsay's popularization of the rapture, and that explains a lot of why late 20th century Christian church's have this gaping escapism. There was supposed to be a debate with Lindsay and the owner of Trinity, vs a professor in NT background at a Bay Area university, but it was canceled by Lindsay.

As for the definition, there is definitely a quick transformation at death or the end of time in I Cor 15, but you are right, our first thought should be the deep, warm welcoming greeting, as if from a best old friend. This is ruined by pursuing too much of the sequential issues of the final day of judgement; the shorter our view of the span of these things, the more accurate. Nothing need happen over in Israel, either.

Interplanner · May 26, 2015

In terms of exegesis, the popularizes did not realize that the "taken" people in the Matthew passage were being taken to destruction. All of Mt 24 should be read first in terms of the calamity that swept Israel in 66+ AD. Mt24A is about that, then at v29 it widens to the worldwide day of judgement.

Why do people believe in a Rapture?

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