The end times in two sentences.

You see, what you don't understand is that Ebed is very up to speed on Hebrews and Colossians etc. I know this from reading him over the past two years.


So what ... you both need to get up to speed on the Bible .... it is written in a language that you can understand

Language commentaries are helpful, but some use them for manipulations

"I don't know why he would set up something for just a thousand years, lose it, or at least see it spoiled, and then have it all destroyed in the remaking of the NHNE anyway."


Why do you question what the Lord has already said about the matter?

Is it because you think that you know better?

What you have just questioned is has already been revealed by Him

Why not take Him at His word?

And tell me what is NHNE ?

ebedmelech said:

If Jesus isn't exercising His authority, how does He send out the apostles to preach the gospel...and how does He perform through the apostles all the miracles they performed?

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Jesus is seeking to save the lost and has sent his people to witness the gospel...but a time will come ebed when Jesus will come to earth a second time to offer the new covenant to the world in person...the first time was a rehersal of God with man...the second time will be God with man...the second time will be more convincing...

So what did Jesus mean when He said “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”?

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He was offering the new covenant to the Jews ....they as a whole rejected the new covenant. . . And so the offering was sent to the gentiles ......when Jesus returns he will again offer the new covenant to the Jews first....before he offers it to the gentiles. only this time the Jews will honor and welcome the offering and make Jesus their king.....then the kingdom of heaven will be literally on earth...

As for Revelation 6...Jesus is breaking seals...but above you said He's not exercising His authority on earth???

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Jesus has not yet broke the seals...he has not yet raptured the church....the rapture comes first and witness the breaking of seals in heaven ebed

"Jesus has not yet broke the seals...he has not yet raptured the church....the rapture comes first and witness the breaking of seals in heaven ebed"


Truth .... very clear in scripture [Revelation 3:10; 4:1; 5:1-10]

His hour [time] of trial and judgment that is coming upon the whole world will begin only when all of the seals are removed from the scroll

The seals represent portents of the coming tribulation ..... conditions that will exist upon the earth during the period

Interplanner said:

DFW re 61.
You see, what you don't understand is that Ebed is very up to speed on Hebrews and Colossians etc. I know this from reading him over the past two years. Like me, he knows that the expectations of such a deception depend entirely on people not knowing what the NT says about the OT sacrificial system.

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What do you see in Hebrew that makes you believe Jesus will not return to earth to establish an earthly kingdom with him visibly ruling on a earthy throne set in Jerusalem?

It is the idea that a "Christian" view of Judaism would be to recycle all of the OT system that is a mistake. So tell me, are you one that looks at the current interest in restoring it in anguish or in excitement?

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When have I said that the old Judaian covenant was going to be installed by Jesus again?....

.I have taught that a Judaism king will come and is hailed as the messiah ....but Judaism will reveal him...not christianity ..

When Jesus returns he will build a new covenant on Jerusalem grounds.....a new temple....a new sacrifice on the alter.....not the old laws.....but the new laws of Christianity ...the gospel will remain...the calling will remain . .it will be the new way to the Lord....and everyone on earth will witness this messianic era for 1000 years ..

Or let me put it to you this way: if such a restoration is deceptive, then isn't the whole effort to restore the land and have Judaism operate in its land also? But is that what is going on? Only 8% are orthodox. Is that really going to mislead anyone?

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It is not Judaism that will conquer the world....that's what I've been trying to say all along...Judaism will conquer a short space. Judaism will one day seem the victor ....when she produces the false messiah and false messianic age and world peace. .but her time comes to an end ..

Jesus is not Judaism....Jews testify of this. . Christianity is in no way judaism....so when Jesus returns....he will offer christianity to the Jews as before. .this time they will with open arms say...." All that the Lord commands ..we will obey".....only Jews understand that one ..

ThatTrueLight said:

No doubt the false one who is to come.. because when the Lord Jesus Christ comes it shall be with power and great glory to destroy this man of sin.. by the brightness of His coming of course.

Now that has to do with Israel, not the church of God.. the church of God is meeting the Lord in the air, and there ain't no false Messiah going to pull that one off.

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I have been wondering if Judaism or messianic Judaism will be first to place a messiah on the throne ..or maybe a joint effort....who knows...but for me... their sects are most likely to establish a false messiah....

Zionism can produce a messiah....but will this coming messiah be a messianic Jew or a Judaism king ....what doctrines will he spread in his kingdom ...messianic or Judaism or a combination of both?....who knows.. .

I think Judaism will prevail in the end .....and gentile believers will be placed under noachide law. (Which will make Judaianized gentile believers upset because they believe in one people a unity between Jew and gentile )...and Torah for only true Israelites .....

The final antichrist will come during this era. ...and lead the gentiles to war against Israel. .for keeping them out of Judaism. .

That seems to me the logical conclusion. ..it's all speculation of course....

"I have been wondering if Judaism or messianic Judaism will be first to place a messiah on the throne"


Not going to happen

This is the one [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 9:26-27; [the other prince]; 11:36-45; 12:7; Micah 5:5-6] [2 Thessalonians 2:8-12]

Straightshot said:

"I have been wondering if Judaism or messianic Judaism will be first to place a messiah on the throne"


Not going to happen

This is the one [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-25; 9:26-27; [the other prince]; 11:36-45; 12:7; Micah 5:5-6] [2 Thessalonians 2:8-12]

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ok man will see..

ThatTrueLight said:

No doubt the false one who is to come.. because when the Lord Jesus Christ comes it shall be with power and great glory to destroy this man of sin.. by the brightness of His coming of course.

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Yes...that refers to the final antichrist.....the man of sin is the final antichrist whom the Lord will destroy when Israel cries out to God for help

Jerusalem will have more than one antichrist......its not known how many will come to take Jerusalem....but there are two primary antichrist....the first primary antichrist will be a man who will rule as king of the Jews. He is hailed as the promised messiah ....the messiah of Judaism. ..he will prevail over all others....he will restore the judean kingdom line of the house of David.....


After this lineage is restored and reign for a season. .. then will come the man of sin.....who is the final antichrist who will lead the nation's against Israel...and scatter the children of Israel one last time ....

Jesus comes with the clouds ...a sign for all...the clouds will disappear when the 6th seal is opened ...and for 7 years no rain will fall upon the earth ..

Now that has to do with Israel, not the church of God.. the church of God is meeting the Lord in the air, and there ain't no false Messiah going to pull that one off.

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There is a church on the earth left behind...laodicea ....whoever they are... They will be purged ....they are the jews and gentiles who still have some type of Christian beliefs....but are apostates or miss the mark and have shipwrecked their faith.

But all the churches who keep the faith will be raptured ....even those during the tribulation that are saved will be raptured ..there seems to be more than one rapture event..

dfw69 said:

Jesus is seeking to save the lost and has sent his people to witness the gospel...but a time will come ebed when Jesus will come to earth a second time to offer the new covenant to the world in person...the first time was a rehersal of God with man...the second time will be God with man...the second time will be more convincing...

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No. You've got things way out of what scripture teaches. Show one scripture that says "Jesus will come to earth a second time to offer the new covenant to the world in person".

dfw69 said:

He was offering the new covenant to the Jews ....they as a whole rejected the new covenant. . . And so the offering was sent to the gentiles ......when Jesus returns he will again offer the new covenant to the Jews first....before he offers it to the gentiles. only this time the Jews will honor and welcome the offering and make Jesus their king.....then the kingdom of heaven will be literally on earth...

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This too, is way off the mark. 3000 Jews were saved at Pentecost! Jesus told the apostles just how they were to preach the gospel in Acts 1:8:
8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”
That is exactly what the apostles did! All you have to do is follow them through Acts.

*The church was born in Jerusalem at Pentecost in Acts 2 and remained their until Acts 8...

*Acts 8:1-8...after Stephen was stoned and the church was persecuted out of Jerusalem, and the gospel was preached in Judea and Samaria.

*Acts 10 Peter preaches the gospel to the Gentile Cornelius...and the gospel is spread to all the nations through Paul and Barnabus starting in Acts 11

dfw69 said:

Jesus has not yet broke the seals...he has not yet raptured the church....the rapture comes first and witness the breaking of seals in heaven ebed

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Indeed Jesus has broken the seals! Read what happens with each seal and explain why they haven't been broken already.

As for rapture...every verse you try to use to teach a rapture is proven to be the resurrection! In the resurrection the dead in Christ are raised and living believers are "caught up". The rapture is part of the resurrection. This idea Jesus is going to rapture believers before tribulation is simply error.

Straightshot said:

You see, what you don't understand is that Ebed is very up to speed on Hebrews and Colossians etc. I know this from reading him over the past two years.

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This is a completely erroneous statement. I read the ENTIRE bible...and have done so over the years chronologically. I use the oneyearbibleonline to accomplish this. Today I will read:
1 KINGS 8:54-66
2 CHRONICLES 7:1-10
1 KINGS 9:1-9
2 CHRONICLES 7:11-22
1 KINGS 9:10-14

ebedmelech said:

No. You've got things way out of what scripture teaches. Show one scripture that says "Jesus will come to earth a second time to offer the new covenant to the world in person".

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I can't show you because it's a mystery....and even if you saw it. .you will not believe because your stuck in the 70 ad timezones. .

Ebed...when Jesus returns physically ..what laws will he establish?....the laws of the new testament or old testament laws?

This too, is way off the mark. 3000 Jews were saved at Pentecost! Jesus told the apostles just how they were to preach the gospel in Acts 1:8:
8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”
That is exactly what the apostles did! All you have to do is follow them through Acts.

*The church was born in Jerusalem at Pentecost in Acts 2 and remained their until Acts 8...

*Acts 8:1-8...after Stephen was stoned and the church was persecuted out of Jerusalem, and the gospel was preached in Judea and Samaria.

*Acts 10 Peter preaches the gospel to the Gentile Cornelius...and the gospel is spread to all the nations through Paul and Barnabus starting in Acts 11


Indeed Jesus has broken the seals! Read what happens with each seal and explain why they haven't been broken already.

As for rapture...every verse you try to use to teach a rapture is proven to be the resurrection! In the resurrection the dead in Christ are raised and living believers are "caught up". The rapture is part of the resurrection. This idea Jesus is going to rapture believers before tribulation is simply error.

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Yes ....but Jesus mission was to offer the new covenant to the Jews first and establish his spiritual kingdom on earth which technically he did accomplish that. ...he is saving countless people from every nation who put their faith in the messiah...and is making one nation to fill the new Jerusalem with citizens of the world..that part of his kingdom is partially completed....it continues on ...the gospel will save even up to the final day....for those who will remain in the Faith...

After the put down of the last rebellion ...which takes place after the 1000 years. There is a final resurrection...known as the resurrection of the dead....then new Jerusalem comes down to earth from heaven....

but if Jesus wishes to rule physically on earth ...he can .....he is the son of David and rightful ruler on David throne on earth...when he returns he will make a covenant with the Jews....a new covenant....and rule on earth ....it's foretold..it's gonna happen...it's known as the messianic age and 1000 year reign...


No seal has been broken ebed.....not until the rise of the final antichrist....and last 7 years of human government...just before the return of Jesus to end human government....and establish his kingdom...

The rapture is a resurrection ?....yes. . And there are more than one rapture (harvest )Days .....all who is worthy of the first resurrection will be raptured and the first resurrection is accomplish before the return of Jesus to earth....

"No. You've got things way out of what scripture teaches. Show one scripture that says "Jesus will come to earth a second time to offer the new covenant to the world in person".

The isn't any scripture to offer a new covenant to the "world" .... obviously a loaded question

This is not the "world"

Jeremiah
31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Straightshot said:

"No. You've got things way out of what scripture teaches. Show one scripture that says "Jesus will come to earth a second time to offer the new covenant to the world in person".

The isn't any scripture to offer a new covenant to the "world" .... obviously a loaded question

This is not the "world"

Jeremiah
31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

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Straight shot when Jesus comes he will make a new covenant with the Jews. Then the Jews will witness to the world. Just as when Jesus sent Paul to the gentiles. .Jesus will send the Jews and the world will be blessed by the gospel coming out of Jerusalem..

You are correct .... 144000 apostles of Israel

The first 12 had an enormous impact .... imagine what these will do, especially when they will be protected from the wiles of the tribulation

Straightshot said:

You are correct .... 144000 apostles of Israel

The first 12 had an enormous impact .... imagine what these will do, especially when they will be protected from the wiles of the tribulation

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I believe the 144000 will be the first fruits of Israel who witness to Israel....just before the coming of the final man of sin. The man of sin will seek to destroy those 144000....he does not know who they are ..any Jew could be one of them....but they have been caught up to heaven ...so the antichist seeks to destroy all Israel....to rid the rebellion of his kingdom...

Kinda like the time of Herod... .who saught to kill Jesus at birth....and did not know who he was ...but sent an army to destroy the children in ramah.....in those days Israel will flee having been warned by the 144000....

But yes after all the chaos....and Jesus is on the throne ....the children of Israel will witness the gospel and the messianic age to the world...

"the children of Israel will witness the gospel and the messianic age to the world"


That they will [Matthew 24:14; Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-7]

dfw69 said:

I can't show you because it's a mystery....and even if you saw it. .you will not believe because your stuck in the 70 ad timezones. .

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No. Paul shows you the mystery in 1 Corinthians 15:51-57:
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The mystery is no longer a mystery, because Paul has told it to us in scripture!

dfw69 said:

Ebed...when Jesus returns physically ..what laws will he establish?....the laws of the new testament or old testament laws?

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He will establish no law, and nothing in scripture says that! When Jesus returns He returns as the judge of the quick and the dead (saved and lost). This is why flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom and why we will be changed. We will receive IMPERISHABLE bodies without the taint of sin!

dfw69 said:

Yes ....but Jesus mission was to offer the new covenant to the Jews first and establish his spiritual kingdom on earth which technically he did accomplish that. ...he is saving countless people from every nation who put their faith in the messiah...and is making one nation to fill the new Jerusalem with citizens of the world..that part of his kingdom is partially completed....it continues on ...the gospel will save even up to the final day....for those who will remain in the Faith...

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No. You're saying that...scripture DOES NOT. Listen to Paul again in Colossians 1:13 is one verse of MANY that tell us we're already in the kingdom:
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

This is why scripture tells us we're "In the world BUT NOT of the world". This is something you must not realize. Christians are in the kingdom already. The only thing that happens when Jesus returns is He brings his kingdom to earth, a kingdom saints are ALREADY members of!

dfw69 said:

After the put down of the last rebellion ...which takes place after the 1000 years. There is a final resurrection...known as the resurrection of the dead....then new Jerusalem comes down to earth from heaven....

Peter told you "with the Lord a day is LIKE a thousand years and a thousand years LIKE a day! He's telling you Jesus already reigns!

but if Jesus wishes to rule physically on earth ...he can .....he is the son of David and rightful ruler on David throne on earth...when he returns he will make a covenant with the Jews....a new covenant....and rule on earth ....it's foretold..it's gonna happen...it's known as the messianic age and 1000 year reign...


No seal has been broken ebed.....not until the rise of the final antichrist....and last 7 years of human government...just before the return of Jesus to end human government....and establish his kingdom...

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There is no "last rebellion"...it's a fallacy! Jesus is not coming for any reason other than to judge the world in righteousness. He reigns, and there will be no rebellion. Those who are not saved are already in rebellion just as we were before we were saved by the Lord's mercy.

dfw69 said:

The rapture is a resurrection ?....yes. . And there are more than one rapture (harvest )Days .....all who is worthy of the first resurrection will be raptured and the first resurrection is accomplish before the return of Jesus to earth....

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The first resurrection took place when God saved you. You were made ALIVE in Christ...Ephesians 2:4-7:
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
That is the first resurrection...it is a spiritual resurrection that MAKES YOU ALIVE TO GOD!

The other points you try to make concerning a harvest are not valid! Jesus told the disciples when He walked the earth "the fields were ALREADY ripe to harvest" (John 4:35). That harvest is ongoing through His church! The gospel is the tool of harvest!

ebedmelech said:

No. Paul shows you the mystery in 1 Corinthians 15:51-57:
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The mystery is no longer a mystery, because Paul has told it to us in scripture!

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I was just kidding with you


Yes this talks about the dead people who have died in the Lord and are buried who will walk out of their graves to receive new bodies to be able to rise to heaven where new Jerusalem an actual city awaits them....

The last trump is after the first trump..it has nothing to do with the 7 trumpets of rev which are judgements...

He will establish no law, and nothing in scripture says that! When Jesus returns He returns as the judge of the quick and the dead (saved and lost). This is why flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom and why we will be changed. We will receive IMPERISHABLE bodies without the taint of sin!

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Jer reveals he will establish a new covenant in the last days with the Jews and the gospel laws will come out of Jerusalem...isaiah 2:3

Many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

No. You're saying that...scripture DOES NOT. Listen to Paul again in Colossians 1:13 is one verse of MANY that tell us we're already in the kingdom:
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Click to expand...

This is why scripture tells us we're "In the world BUT NOT of the world". This is something you must not realize. Christians are in the kingdom already. The only thing that happens when Jesus returns is He brings his kingdom to earth, a kingdom saints are ALREADY members of!

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If you continue to believe your views your will fall away from the Faith....because the false messiah comes first and your doctrine is paving the way for your own deception to receive him ....

We are in the kingdom of heaven by Faith if we remain in the Faith and not fall away to receive the coming false messiah...the kingdom we are to look for is the one above...one day you will see this to be true...

There is no "last rebellion"...it's a fallacy! Jesus is not coming for any reason other than to judge the world in righteousness. He reigns, and there will be no rebellion. Those who are not saved are already in rebellion just as we were before we were saved by the Lord's mercy.

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After the 1000 years there will be a final rebellion for Satan will be let loose one last time . ..but you need to be aware of the coming false messiah and not worry about the last rebellion....because if you follow any messiah that is not sent from god...you will fall away

The first resurrection took place when God saved you. You were made ALIVE in Christ...Ephesians 2:4-7:
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
That is the first resurrection...it is a spiritual resurrection that MAKES YOU ALIVE TO GOD!

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No ebed. .the first resurrection is an actual resurrection that takes place when the dead are resurrected out of their graves....your spiritual eyes are leading you astray from sound doctrine my friend

The other points you try to make concerning a harvest are not valid! Jesus told the disciples when He walked the earth "the fields were ALREADY ripe to harvest" (John 4:35). That harvest is ongoing through His church! The gospel is the tool of harvest!

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Amen....but there are other harvest...ebed....wheat barley tares sheep goats grape harvest equals many harvest ...

The first resurrection is the one to eternal life .... more than one event of this resurrection takes place in the line up [1 Corinthians 15:20-23; Revelation 3:10; 20:4]

The second resurrection is to the second death .... only one of these [Revelation 20:11-15]