Is God a liar?

Smidlee

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Why? I don't eliminate the resurrection as a lie. There is no evidence against it.
So you think the resurrection is scientific? the Fossil record has always been evolutionist weakest link even in Darwin's day. Stasis is the norm for the fossil record plus the tree is upside down.

I see the exact opposite, there is more evidence against evolution than for it.

The starlight problem is also a problem for the Big Bang which why they included a supernatural miracle called inflation. The thing is this cause another problem as when you start inflation there is no reason for it to stop. Even one noted that the Big Bang is calling on the "tooth fairy" too many times which why some are not happy with the theory.

I wouldn't be so quick to call God a liar on man's shaky theories especially since they are constantly changing.
 
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Willtor

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So you think the resurrection is scientific? the Fossil record has always been evolutionist weakest link even in Darwin's day. Stasis is the norm for the fossil record plus the tree is upside down.

I see the exact opposite, there is more evidence against evolution than for it.

The starlight problem is also a problem for the Big Bang which why they included a supernatural miracle called inflation. The thing is this cause another problem as when you start inflation there is no reason for it to stop. Even one noted that the Big Bang is calling on the "tooth fairy" too many times which why some are not happy with the theory.

I wouldn't be so quick to call God a liar on man's shaky theories especially since they are constantly changing.

The resurrection isn't scientific. It also isn't anti-scientific; It doesn't contradict the evidence. The same cannot be said for YEC.
 
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Smidlee

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So you think the resurrection is scientific? the Fossil record has always been evolutionist weakest link even in Darwin's day. Stasis is the norm for the fossil record plus the tree is upside down.
The resurrection isn't scientific. It also isn't anti-scientific; It doesn't contradict the evidence. The same cannot be said for YEC.
Anyone who knows anything about science is there are contradictions in almost every single theory. Contradictions does not stop scientist from believing in their theory. As one scientist noted if we throw out a theory when we find contradictions we have anything to put all our data in. When the data totally contradicts their models they will add "fudge factors" like dark matter and dark energy to help hold their models together. Contradictions is why it's hard for them to come up with one unified theory of everything.

We can only know what we know.


I don't believe the Earth is flat but I would laugh so hard if I found out when I got to Heaven that by some unknown process the Earth was actually flat.
 
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Blue Wren

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Anyone who knows anything about science is there are contradictions in almost every single theory. Contradictions does not stop scientist from believing in their theory. As one scientist noted if we throw out a theory when we find contradictions we have anything to put all our data in. When the data totally contradicts their models they will add "fudge factors" like dark matter and dark energy to help hold their models together. Contradictions is why it's hard for them to come up with one unified theory of everything.

We can only know what we know.

We can only know, what we are willing to learn.
 
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Blue Wren

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Did you watch the video? You may learn something interesting about "knowing". I like the statement from the book at the end of the video.


I've watched it, yes. I've been subscribed to Vsauce's channels, for years now. What he said, at the end, about knowledge, it's what sincere scientists already do know, Smidlee.

In the middle of the video, he talks about Poe's Law. Do you realise, that Poe's Law, was coined by a user on this forum, in response to creationism?

The name "Poe's Law" refers to a reply posted in 2005 by Nathan Poe on an internet forum about Christianity (christianforums.com), in the context of a debate about creationism.[1] The original sentence referred specifically to creationism, but the "law" has been generalized to apply to any kind of fundamentalism or extremism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
 
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Smidlee

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Yeap, I know exactly where Poe's Law came from. I was around here when he made it. Look at my profile to see how long I've been around. Of course POE would never see himself as an extremist. (That's the thing everyone thinks the other guy is the extremist and I'm not sure if it wasn't Poe I pointed that out to. )

The quote at the end questioned if we can truly "know" anything.
 
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Willtor

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Anyone who knows anything about science is there are contradictions in almost every single theory. Contradictions does not stop scientist from believing in their theory. As one scientist noted if we throw out a theory when we find contradictions we have anything to put all our data in. When the data totally contradicts their models they will add "fudge factors" like dark matter and dark energy to help hold their models together. Contradictions is why it's hard for them to come up with one unified theory of everything.

We can only know what we know.


I don't believe the Earth is flat but I would laugh so hard if I found out when I got to Heaven that by some unknown process the Earth was actually flat.

Appealing to flat Earth theory doesn't make YEC more credible.
 
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Smidlee

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Appealing to flat Earth theory doesn't make YEC more credible.
I guess you didn't watch the video. The video is not an appeal to flat Earth theory. One of the interesting points was if a sub-atomic particle traveling near the speed of light and did scientific research the evidence would show the Earth was flat; about 17 meters thick.
 
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Willtor

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I guess you didn't watch the video. The video is not an appeal to flat Earth theory. One of the interesting points was if a sub-atomic particle traveling near the speed of light and did scientific research the evidence would show the Earth was flat; about 17 meters thick.

It would not. The Earth would appear 17m thick from any angle it was approached (while traveling near the speed of light) -- one could not construe this as flat. Probably, it would discover relativity very quickly.
 
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Smidlee

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It would not. The Earth would appear 17m thick from any angle it was approached (while traveling near the speed of light) -- one could not construe this as flat. Probably, it would discover relativity very quickly.
In that case a Sub-particle Michael would make a Vsause video that would point out that the Earth would be a sphere to those extremely slow earthers and maybe not flat after all.
Of course since we are extremely slow earthers we believe our view represent "reality". It's obvious by now quantum mechanics doesn't work on the level of how we "see" things.

This is the point of the video.
 
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Willtor

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In that case a Sub-particle Michael would make a Vsause video that would point out that the Earth would be a sphere to those extremely slow earthers and maybe not flat after all.
Of course since we are extremely slow earthers we believe our view represent "reality". It's obvious by now quantum mechanics doesn't work on the level of how we "see" things.

This is the point of the video.

Quantum mechanics doesn't enter into it -- the effects are relativistic. And his point is not to discredit science. This doesn't create space for creationism.
 
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Smidlee

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Quantum mechanics doesn't enter into it -- the effects are relativistic. And his point is not to discredit science. This doesn't create space for creationism.
Discredit science? Who claim that. Let's go back to the OP. He questioned if man understanding of the universe is found false is God a lair. It's pride of man that question God before man. No wonder God hates pride.
Have you even heard some of the nonsense comes out of scientist mouth especially in light of QM?
 
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Willtor

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Discredit science? Who claim that. Let's go back to the OP. He questioned if man understanding of the universe is found false is God a lair. It's pride of man that question God before man. No wonder God hates pride.
Have you even heard some of the nonsense comes out of scientist mouth especially in light of QM?

You are claiming to discredit science. If not, what is meant by "Have you even heard some of the nonsense comes out of scientist mouth especially in light of QM?"
 
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miamited

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Let me give my own answer to my question, and perhaps that will clear things up a bit.

1. God is not a liar. "God is not a man that he should lie." Numbers 23:19
2. The earth has a plethora of overwhelming evidence i.e. that it is ancient: radiometric dating, ice layering, meteor crators, continental drift, Y-chromosomal ancestry, seeing starlight that has taken billions of years to reach us, and so much more. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_against_a_recent_creation
3. If the earth were young, it would mean that God created it with all this "evidence" in tow, thus creating lies ....
THEREFORE
4. Young Earth Creationism cannot be true because it makes God a liar.

Hi OH,

Sorry to be so long in getting out a response. I've been traveling for the past two weeks.

Let's consider what the 'evidence' is exactly. I pick up a rock. Just a simple rock that I find in the dirt. I say to myself, "I wonder how old this rock is?" So, I study the rock. I submit it to several different testing procedures that I have designed that I believe will tell me how old the rock is. I believe that the testing procedures are correct because I believe that I understand how things work. In other words, based on the natural properties that I have found working on the earth today, I believe that I can gain a measurement of past history. But God tells me a little about how I am prone to think. I think myself wise, but in reality God says that my foolish heart is darkened. Paul also warns us that we should not be swayed by arguments that are based on the natural properties of things.

Now, because I believe myself to be wise based on the natural properties of things, and therefore come up with wrong answers about such things, is God a liar or am I? I would finally add that we are not to lean upon our own understanding. If we want to know the truth, then we need to ask for the wisdom of the Holy Spirit. Even Jesus wouldn't listen to the testimony of men because he knew what was in a man's heart. Why would we, then, feel inclined to believe the testimony of men over the testimony of God?

When I read the first chapter of the book of Romans I am overwhelmed with how foolish our wisdom really is, and even believe, based on this piece of Scripture, that when God gave us over to follow the depravity of our hearts, that part of that consequence is this nature to believe men rather than God. In fact, that's exactly what the piece of Scripture says:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Although they 'claimed to be wise', they became fools...

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted
 
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Smidlee

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You are claiming to discredit science. If not, what is meant by "Have you even heard some of the nonsense comes out of scientist mouth especially in light of QM?"
Discredit nonsense like 11 dimensions , parallel universes, dark matter and try to claim it truth.. I meant science? Science is still the product of the human mind which is why it continuously changing.
 
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Willtor

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Discredit nonsense like 11 dimensions , parallel universes, dark matter and try to claim it truth.. I meant science? Science is still the product of the human mind which is why it continuously changing.

10 dimensions is not that controversial, AFAIK. Parallel universes is fringe, and dark matter is known to be hard to pin down. Evolution is not controversial. There are changes, but they're refinements at this point.
 
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Open Heart

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Now, because I believe myself to be wise based on the natural properties of things, and therefore come up with wrong answers about such things, is God a liar or am I?
Hi Ted. If you are dating the rock based on two dozen different ways we have, you are definitely not lying.
 
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